Turbo Reed Set Up volume 2

TheBreeze · Mar 15, 2012

I pulled my TRD's and zr/m cages last night. Finally a test of 400 ish miles with no lean cough, and good fueling (as good as it can be for a hill billy from the flatlands that if it runs clean, and does not burn down the fueling is dialed....lol)

Results.... same old story. Erroded at the tips on the bottoms only. I did not notice any runnability issues, and response seemed unchanged. Pulled them to see, and same ol shizz.......

Gus, any input on why its always just the bottoms?

Pics of the bottom reeds.

gus bohne · Mar 16, 2012

maybe.. the topside location of the injector makes for a dry lower section of the air column. especially at low velocity and low dutycycles. ??

The model of my hypothosis addresses that without moving the injector.

when the butterfly opens it flows on top and bottom then exposes the sides as it collapses ( opens flat ). Wouldn't it be nice if the blade was hinged ? so as to allow topside early opening and progressive bottom half, like a holley dominator linkage. We can have 1 to 1,, or progressives Soft and mid to tip in the back blades.

in the sled case, it would help with lower reed petal erosion . :usa2:

Carbs dont chew the lower reeds they will chip the outer tops more than any other..so WHY ?? Carbs fuel from ONLY the open area so the outer top tips would be the driest. Its just a theory not proven fact.

u2celk · Mar 20, 2012

Just checking in.

I did the ZR double stack with the OVS stops a 13mm. Less than 400 miles and the Mag side bottom reeds don't have a single peddel touching,and they are missing the corner. The top side only the tips still touch and the corners are chipped.

The clutch side has the inside reed peddel corners broke off, and again only the tips still touch.
AFR were mostly 12.5-14 running thru the days. The only lean I ever really saw was idleing it would get to 15-15.5, then today it went lean and wouldn't run, thought I air cooled a piston. Got home and started trouble shooting and this is all I can find. Going to go with a single 1000 reeds.

How the heck do you get bigger pictures on here????

TheBreeze · Mar 20, 2012

Look for manage attachments under where you type your posts, and upload them that way. Very interested to see your pics in more detail. I have never seen the top reeds fail on my sled, so that is interesting. What do you mean by only the tips still touch?

u2celk · Mar 20, 2012

Reeds

The only place the reeds were making contact was the very end. As you can see the black shows were they are touching and the one has no black. If I could take a picture that would show it there is a gap between the reed and cage. Never closes all the way.

Snopro_69 · Mar 22, 2012

jus took my PC 800 CPC 2 apart....Been running 8-10 but knew i lost a peddle last trip....bottoms on the PTO side corners chipped and the mag side farthest out side whole half of peddle was gone and inside bottom corner chipped.....Pouring so much fuel in er she wouldnt even fire on that side....Goin to dealer rite now....Think i should try 1000's or 800 HO's again??? Could have been a couple things that wrecked mine cuz new to the turbo and was pullin in hot air for some time through my CAI

TheBreeze · May 4, 2012

Another update for those who are interested in reeds on a M8 Turbo. Same old failure and pattern on my latest set of TRD's single stacked reeds on ZR/M cages with OVS stops.

This set never saw intake temps over 110, and had about 350 miles. I have never once experienced any runability issues with my sled. However, I can instantly tell when my reeds have gone from new, to the condition seen in the pictures based on idle speed with a cold motor. On cold startup, I see 1300-1600 at idle. The same cold start with FRESH reeds will idle like stock 1800-1900.

On a fresh set of reeds, the second morning of riding, I will have the tell tale low idle, yet the sled runs absulutely great.

I am going to test some other combos next season just to see what I can learn.
I am beginning to believe that fresh reeds wear to the pictured condition quickly, do not affect runnability, and maintain similar condition for many miles. The lack of runability issues causes people to ride a bunch of miles with slightly damaged reeds, and assume their good to go. Then something happens, and the reeds get checked, the wear is noticed.

I would love to see pictures of guys' reeds on sleds that "run great" and have low mile reeds to see if they display similar wear. I would be willing to bet that a good precentage of the pictures would look just like mine.

Lets keep the good reports going.

I took a pic of all of the damaged reeds I removed from my sled this season during these "tests" lol.

I have never damaged an upper reed, always the lower sets.

TheBreeze · Aug 21, 2012

I am almost finished with re-assembly after smoking a blukhead this spring. Back to the trials and tribulations of the reed situation.

I am going back to HO cages, stock reed stops, and HO reeds with ZR's on the outside, bottom only as I have yet to damage any of the top reeds. I am hoping this is somewhat of a compromise in terms of response, and longevity.

I will update once the snow flies.

gus bohne · Aug 23, 2012

FWIW,, I have been quietly doing some testing and will share the results with you guys now that its been long enough to prove itself.

Using carbon fiber, MID tension petals from carbon tech OVER a set of stock zr petals has been flawless as far as response and wear go. My test rider put ALL last season on the sled at 10-16 psi and the reeds are ALL closed tight and show NO signs of errosion period.

Even on the POO triple turbo at 9800 rpm we have zero errosion and tight closed reeds at all corners..

I strongly suggest them as your top petals and would even go so far as to say, carbon tech lights on bottom backed by a set of mid tensions may be the end all for response and durability. carbon fiber handles heat better then epoxy resin so it was really a no brainer to give them a chance.

On my Race turbos we use CAT zr cages in even the doo's as they are a bolt in. I am changing them over too and will be at dynotech to see what changes in the fuel curve and power ( if any ) come from this change.

I will also be proving the twin pipes with turbo program once and for all as the top of the line for power output and power curve depth. I expect 430 hp @ 14.5 psi out the the STOCK RT 1000 twin engine @ 8500-8700 rpm. Wish me luck ,, this MULE engine will go to 40 psi at jims and try to make it to 700 hp and or take the record even higher as long as there is no deto heard on the head phones..GTX 4094 too...

Gus ( home for a week to recharge, did 10,000 miles of towing already ).

Breeze,, try a set of 10mm reed spacers to pull them away from the crankwheels.

TheBreeze · Aug 23, 2012

Gus, there seems to be billet reed spacers available for the doo's. Will those bolt up to a cat 800 case?

Funny you mention the crank wheels, as I have been wondering about crank case turbulence beating up the lower reeds as the wear pattern seems to match the contour of the crank case/reed passage shape.

gus bohne · Aug 23, 2012

HPE has them for the cat zr case style , thats what I use on the doos !!!! lol...

the doo spacers are not a goood match to the zr cage and gaskets..lol

Gus

Snopro_69 · Aug 23, 2012

Thanks for all the info Gus! Jus wondering if u knew the part # of the carbon reeds for new 800? Looked at the web site an it's kinda confusing. Talks about more mid or more top end? Which ones would a guy be looking for? Thanks again!

BigAir · Jan 9, 2013

Any new info on what reed setup is working best?

Gus or anyone have a recommendation for a TM1000 at 6-8 lbs? Doubled up ZR/M8 reeds or single M1000?

BigAir · Jan 9, 2013

Double post, please delete.

gus bohne · Jan 12, 2013

since I swapped to carbon tech mid tension on top of stock zr 800/900 petals its been perfect.

Not even a chip at 10,000 rpm and 24 psi..they lay flat like new even after sitting all summer.

On the Bd e tech 800 turbo the boysens failed almost instantly. under 5 miles form camp and it was loading up from cracked reed. swapped to oem carbon reeds doubled and now 812 miles of trouble free riding without a tune change so I know the reeds are doing fine. I must admit the carbon is far superior to glass oem cat reeds for life expectancy ( blowsome uses glass too ).

raced a brand x e torch turbo with the bd e tech sled, 7 psi on both. the BD sled dragged the brand x sled from start to finish like a towing a tuna !!! the brand x sled had a total of 15 grams less mass and was under revving 200 rpm.. the use doo race shop thick as ****t carbon petals and yes, he was on his 3rd set this season.. wat a shame..LOL

Gus

we all know who brand x is.. LMAO..

Polarisrocks · Jan 12, 2013

Gus your message box is full and are unable to receive messages...fyi

Hi Gus i was wondering about the carbon reeds you are having good luck with.. will they fit the Cat m1000 reed cages? Are the Zr cages the same as the m.. And where do i get them? I have damaged stock reeds in less than 200 miles.. so i want to make a change for the better.. Do you have contact info for the reed company and what part numbers am i looking for?

Thanks Jim

BigAir · Jan 12, 2013

gus bohne said:
since I swapped to carbon tech mid tension on top of stock zr 800/900 petals its been perfect.

Not even a chip at 10,000 rpm and 24 psi..they lay flat like new even after sitting all summer.

On the Bd e tech 800 turbo the boysens failed almost instantly. under 5 miles form camp and it was loading up from cracked reed. swapped to oem carbon reeds doubled and now 812 miles of trouble free riding without a tune change so I know the reeds are doing fine. I must admit the carbon is far superior to glass oem cat reeds for life expectancy ( blowsome uses glass too ).

raced a brand x e torch turbo with the bd e tech sled, 7 psi on both. the BD sled dragged the brand x sled from start to finish like a towing a tuna !!! the brand x sled had a total of 15 grams less mass and was under revving 200 rpm.. the use doo race shop thick as ****t carbon petals and yes, he was on his 3rd set this season.. wat a shame..LOL

Gus

we all know who brand x is.. LMAO..

Have you tried the Carbon Tech reeds single yet? I suppose at your boost levels the doubled reeds are necessary, but I am thinking at 6-10 lbs the Carbon Tech reeds alone might work good.

gus bohne · Jan 13, 2013

carbon tech was bought by boysen. contact boysen . yes they have petals for the 1000 and the cages are the same.

petals are offered in various tensions for most applications. lower boost means lighter tensions will work for you. I use low tensions on eveuthing under 20 psi.

I use doubled up on eveyrthing guys, single petals failed at 4 psi on the e tech turbo in under 5 miles.

single petals always fail unexpectedly. view the reeds as valves springs. using 1 single really thick stiff spring is NOT DONE ANYWHERE ! lol double up even thinner reeds for response and life..

Dogmeat · Jan 13, 2013

Ok, I seriously don't understand WTF you guys are doing with your sleds to keep screwing reeds up...

I've had the turbo on my M8 for three seasons now, anywhere between 8-14 psi, and I have yet to destroy a set of reeds.

I am getting like 1000+ miles out of a set of stock M8 reeds, and the only damage I seem to have when I swap them at the end of the season is the corners might be SLIGHTLY chipped.

I put the M10 reeds in my sled at the beginning of this year because of all the talk about this just as a precaution (for the hell of it mainly) and I took them out after 2 rides because they absolutely killed the low end throttle response on my sled.

I don't know, maybe the moral of the story is that if you are building a big boost hill climber you should double stack M10 reeds or whatever else, but I know on a sled that occasionally climbs hills and mainly boondocks through the trees you don't need anything more than the stock reeds.

Polarisrocks · Jan 13, 2013

I am new to the cat turbo world.. On the 1st 2 days the sled had an amazing bottom end with no rich sputtering, on the 3rd ride the notorious rich boggy bottum end showed up.. I only used the stock m1000 reeds and ovs stops..

This sled will be for sale if i have to take the air box off ervery couple rides ..

I am going to try the double stacked carbon reeds and post what i find..

Thanks Gus for testing and posting your results

Jim

Turbo Reed Set Up volume 2

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