Now In Development. Polaris 1150cc Twin, Outlaw 1300cc, & Outlaw 1700cc Triple

Now in Delevopment.

Polaris - Twin - Pro stock 1000cc

Polaris - Twin - Outlaw 1150cc

Polaris - Triple - Pro Stock 1000cc

Polaris - Triple - Outlaw 1300cc

Polaris - Triple - Outlaw 1500cc

Polaris - Triple - Outlaw 1700cc

All Test Motors will be completed by this spring.

Testing will start this summer on the Asphalt.

The 1150cc Twin, Triple Pro Stock 1000cc, Outlaw 1300cc, Model Name pending 1700cc all have test platforms already.

We need a Test sled for the Twin Pro Stock 1000cc & The Outlaw 1500cc,

For now these must be Asphalt sleds.

The 2 Motors of focus will be:

The Twin Outlaw 1150cc

And the Triple Outlaw 1300cc - ( The Motor to watch ) I expect this motor Dollar for Dollar, To be the Most Powerful motor ever built for the money using a production 900 cylinder.
Crankshaft length will allow this to make more power then a custom built 1500cc watercraft conversion. The weak point of the 1500 is the transfers are very small because the crankshaft is short in relation to bore size. A stock 900 cylinder has massive transfers with way more wrap with no porting needed to make huge power. ( A small amount of porting ) and the results are unbelieveable for a very low amount of time to build this motor.

The great thing about the 1300cc package is it will very cost effective for the customer and easy to buy parts for, It will use all OEM cylinders, Pistons, gaskets, O-Rings, & Crank bearings.

All Test Sleds Will Have Electric Start & Reverse.

Next fall I will be picking 4 test Sleds from the Western States and Canada to run these motors for 2 full years of durability testing before they will be offered to the public. They will be tested to a point where I believe they can be sold with a warranty.

I will update the project as it moves forward.

Dan

4Z said:

Right on!!! big two strokes are back baby!!!

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Yeah Lynn, I have been out of the power game for to long !!

I 'm gettin back into the game in a big way. And havin a great time.

minecat said:

I will betcha a a indy specialties broken tripple watercraft crank that your 1300 wont beat my custom 1500 in the mountains, but good luck to you on your venture

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Ben, I believe the crank your talking about is a 1500 RAD crank that was woren out that we tried to save..........Which my notes say that MAG-end rod pin fit was not so good. You called and told me what it was doing I said I have a few new Mag ends and I would fix it for free all you had to do was buy the new MAG-end.

Please don't call a used RAD crank a Indy Specialty crank.

I am sure you remember at the time that was here there were no new parts to be had.

Dan

minecat said:

I stand corrected about the original make of the crank it started out as a RAD and not a Indy Specialty but what failed was not the crank but the weld itself, and my notes say that the fitment wasnt the best but was informed that it would be OK to run. U did tell me to send it back but decided not to go that route again and just get all brand new instead of taking another risk. Good luck to you on your motors and My offer still stands about your 1300 beating my custom 1500.

later
Ben

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Thanks Ben. New was a good move. One thing is for sure, If the Press Fit of a Crank wheel & Rod Pin is suspect...... No one can be absolutely sure if it will last.

Welding will not fix poor pin fit, And the weak link of a RAD crank used in the 1500 is the rod pin is only 26mm, The Polaris 800 BB has a 27mm rod pin, The new 800 Polaris SB has a 29mm Rod Pin. ( The difference in stength between the 2 cranks is unbelievable.)

When using rod pins under 28mm everything has to be as close to perfect as possible.

At the time your crankshaft was down there were no MAG-ends available.
( Its a crap-shoot ) weld and hope.

Now as far as you comparing The Outlaw 1300 to your custom 1500......... This isn't really fair to a 1500 W/C.

From talking to you I remember you sell Mining equipment. ( Something I know nothing about )

Motors are something I know a little about.

That being said..... I will give you a simple view on how to figure out which motor combo looks better.

2000 to 2005 800 Polaris Big block - dyno 127 hp

127hp/2 = 63.5hp per cylinder ( 2 into 1 exhaust )

63.5 hp X 3 = 190.5 hp 1200cc watercraft ( To be fair we have to mention triple pipes ) lets add +35hp for pipes. 40mm carbs.

So thats 225hp for a stock cylinder 1200cc watercraft.

2005 to 2006 900 Big block dynotech - 155 hp

155hp/2 = 77.5hp per cylinder ( 2 into 1 exhaust )

77.5 hp x 3 = 232.5 hp ( Triple pipes ) + 35hp

Triple 900 cyl - 232.5 hp + 35 = 267hp Stock cylinder motor.

Pump Gas 1300 outlaw - 267hp ** Pump Gas 1200 W/C -225hp = -42hp

So simple math brings us to the fact that the 900 cyl triple is 42 hp more with bone stock cylinders.

Remember Ben - I said Dollar for Dollar the 1300 Outlaw would be the most powerful motor ever built. ( Not the most powerful with unlimited funds ) This economy doesn't allow much of that anymore )

Cost wise - The top-end of the 1200 W/C and the 1300 Outlaw is the same. ( All OEM over the counter cylinders, pistons, & gasket kit.) Power wise there is no comparrison. 42hp more

Now lets talk Watercraft Based Custom 1500 -

Close to $6000 for custom cylinders and piston kits and gaskets. ( And case welding and porting that will blow your mind )



Now lets talk long gevity

The OEM cylinder W/C1200cc has 27mm Connecting Rod Pins ( Completely OEM parts )

The W/C Based Custom 1500cc has RAD 26mm Connecting Rod Pins ( 100% custom built ) no over the counter parts other then bearings.

The OEM Cylinder Outlaw 1300cc has 30mm Connecting Rod Pins.

Rod pin diameter means one thing - Crankshaft strength. Its ability to deliver power with as little flex as possible.

Then the most important fact -Crankshaft length.

W/C 1200cc roughly 138mm C to C

W/C 1500cc roughly 138mm C To C ( A few built were longer ) This takes even more crankcase work.

Outlaw 1300cc roughly 150mm C To C ( Thats 12mm wider per cylinder )

Translation - The Outlaw 1300cc Has 12mm per cylinder more transfer area. Or .480 Thousands. Just under 1/2 per cylinder wider.

Trust me Ben, The 1300cc Outlaw in stock form will be a handful for any W/C based 1500cc.

The cylinders are simply to narrow to get the needed wrap in the transfers for big power.

A maxed out W/C 1500cc @ 8500 rpm would be a good match for a Bone stock unported Outlaw 1300cc.

But the math shows that a ported up Outlaw 1300cc @ 9200 to 9500 rpm
will bring a W/C Based 1500 to its knees. Ben the W/C motor is simply to short to pump the air that the bigger cylinder can pump.


Don't get me wrong I love the W/C motors, And your 1500 is an awesome motor. ( But 1500cc W/C based motor is brutal to build ) and the RAD 26mm rod pins make long gevity a tuff nut to crack.

I guess if you are dead set on finding out you could put your W/C 1500 in a asphalt sled this summer and we can have some fun on youtube.

Stock chassis, and stock rear suspension.

My bet would be that the Pro Stock 1000cc will give you all you want. A Full Mod Pro stock 1000 is in the 280+hp range.

The 900 Polaris TWIN has a bit of a bad wrap, BUT the 900 Polaris cylinder has the smallest bore and the most hp per cc then any other snowmobile cylinder ever built.

Again - Dollar for Dollar the Outlaw 1300cc will be more bang for the buck then any other medium size triple ever built. ( Its almost all OEM Parts. ) Ben its not being built to beat anything in general, its being built to be Very consumer friendly, what makes it an awesome motor is its mathematical dimensions.

Dan

General

Yes Ben, all sounds good. Customer service is what the sled business is all about. Yes real world is what its all about talks cheep and beer costs money. The track tells it all. Have a great winter !!

MH - You know me and details, There are only so manyb hours in a day. I will try to stay tuned with details.

Ridecats & Jay, The crankcase is a custom built piece. I have 2 - 1300 that will be fully assembled soon I will let post the weight when its done. I will weigh it with & without electric start.

Burr, with the fleet of sleds you have I am sure we can wedge one of these into one of you machines. LOL!! You crack me up !!

ICR I'll keep you in mind !! :face-icon-small-hap

Dan