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Arctic Cat: Proclimb M 2012 and beyond
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Old 04-23-2019, 09:05 AM
boondocker97 boondocker97 is online now
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Default Strange RPM Problem

So I had a weird issue come up on my last ride that I haven't seen discussed here before. Started out the day fine. Conditions were 12-18" of fresh, wet snow with snow continuing to fall and about 30 degrees. I had changed my helix angle by 2 degrees on the finish rate the night before the trip. Team Tied clutch so not much disassembly to do this. Sled felt sluggish and I thought it was the steeper helix combined with the heavy snow loading it up too hard. Stopped at lunch to inspect and realized the belt was about to come apart. New belt improved the situation substantially. Right before this I tried to climb a short, steep wall from a dead stop and the sled just would not rev up to go up it. About 4000 rpm and would bog out. A few other times that morning it would bog trying to take off like it had a TSS problem, but TSS has been unhooked for some time.

Fast forward a couple hours to the late afternoon when we were getting low on fuel. Got into the bottom of a ravine with no way out the bottom. Sled starts acting up again, but beyond what it had done earlier that day. It decides it doesn't want to rev past 3000rpm. It would rev to that point and just want to die. Once in a while it would get up to 3500 (engagement on my sled when it starts to move), but still die. I thought maybe it was clutch/load related so I rolled the sled up on its side far enough to get the track out of the snow and I could get it to rev up and spin the track that way. Eventually I got it feathered through the 3-3500 problem spot and it took off and ran like it was supposed to all the way up and out of the chute.

Now here is where it gets really weird. Any time you stopped and let the sled come down to an idle you couldn't get going again. If I stood at the front of the boards and two guys lifted the rear of the sled to get the track spinning with the engine running 4500 they could drop the sled and I'd take off no problem. Would run like normal and pull RPM like it should as long as you didn't stop. Furthermore, we figured out the sled would not even start if the nose was pointed down hill. If it was pointed uphill a little bit it would start first pull and idle just fine, but still wouldn't take off under its own power. I have a clear trail tank and could see where the fuel was when this was all happening. If fuel was at the back of the tank it could start. If it was all in the front it would not. When I got back to the truck I had maybe 2-2.5" of fuel in the bottom of the tank. This is the first time I've run it this low in quite some time.

This has me thinking that maybe I have a fuel delivery problem with the smart valves in the tank. Anyone experience these type of symptoms that were fixed by changing them out? One other thing that was different recently was I had some race fuel mixed in the tank from some low-elevation running I did on the last trip. Up until recently it had only ever seen 91. Maybe that brand/formula of fuel reacted with the seals in the valves? I pulled the whole works out of the tank this morning and the hoses seems to be pretty hard. The valves were holding fuel in the lines and not leaking until I turned the assembly on it's side. One of the rear ones then released and let air in, and then all the fuel ran out the front valve. Seemed odd, but I don't know how these things are supposed to work exactly. I didn't touch the valves when any of this happened. just holding them by the lines and pump.

Other pertinent info on the sled:
-BDX hood, intake, headlight delete (old style)
-900 BMP 197hp full motor kit with PCV
-Oil injection delete
-Cat Tether
-Diamond S Ti quiet can
-2018 Primary clutch, MDS weights, Tied secondary, 2015 style Ti jackshaft (400 miles on this setup)
-TKI Belt Drive geared 2.52
-162 3" PC track
-This year it has had a new voltage regulator, stator, PCV, and reeds. First dealer that mis-diagnosed the stator problem said they had all the ignition harness connections apart, blew them out, and greased them.
-2300? miles on the engine, wire harness, and fuel system.
-Sled started as a 2014 pro-lite so it's had all of the engine mods since it was new.
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Current Sleds:
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Still in the Family:
2009 M1300, 2001 Mountain Cat 800 LE, 1972 Kitty Cat
Gone but not Forgotten:
1999 Powder Special 600 LE, 1998 Powder Special 600, 1993 EXT 550, 1980 JAG 340
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Old 04-23-2019, 12:08 PM
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summ8rmk summ8rmk is online now
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Default

No help but i can share a similar story.
97 skidoo with 670/740 seadoo mod.
Carbed sled ofcourse.
Same issue. Sometimes the only way to get it to move was 2 guys pushing it, once u got above certain rpm, it ran like a raped ape. Don't stop the sled though. it always started and idled just didn't have enough power to move the sled.
Sold the sled before we figured out why.


Polaris
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Old 04-23-2019, 10:00 PM
Daag44 Daag44 is offline
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Is the check valve at the bottom of the sump opening and closing properly?
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Old 04-25-2019, 06:54 AM
Allseasons Allseasons is offline
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Is it possible your clutch was sticking? It’d be like putting a car in 4th gear and starting off from the set of lights, it’ll bog and stall
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Old 04-25-2019, 08:33 AM
boondocker97 boondocker97 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Allseasons View Post
Is it possible your clutch was sticking? It’d be like putting a car in 4th gear and starting off from the set of lights, it’ll bog and stall
It felt similar to that or when you slam on the brakes and come to a stop with the belt stuck down in the secondary. Just like taking off in too high of a gear, but not even attempting to move or slip/burn the belt. Which is odd.

I got to looking more closely the other night and I do in fact have a broken primary spring. It's broken right at the bottom next to the spider. I looked at it out on the hill when I changed my belt and it looked fine then. It must have finally shifted enough and the very bottom coil is now pooched out. I broke a spring like this right at the bottom on my 2014 clutch one time. It had little effect on engagement though and I was just loosing 200rpm on the top end. Engagement with that setup was 38-4000. The lower 3500 engagement of the 2018 clutch setup coupled with losing 1 coil must have been dropping the engagement right down to the 3000 range. Not enough power being generated to move the sled at that RPM and killing it?

I still believe I have a fuel problem though as the broken spring doesn't explain starting/not starting with orientation of the sled. Maybe the stalling at takeoff was a combination of the bad spring and starving for fuel. Anyway I ordered a new smart valve setup for in the tank for less than $100 and I'll get another spring coming. Hopefully that fixes the glitch.
__________________
Current Sleds:
2014-2018ish BDX Pro-Lite 900, 2005 M7 with upgrades - Ol' Reliable, 1974 Cheetah
Still in the Family:
2009 M1300, 2001 Mountain Cat 800 LE, 1972 Kitty Cat
Gone but not Forgotten:
1999 Powder Special 600 LE, 1998 Powder Special 600, 1993 EXT 550, 1980 JAG 340
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