I have always been a 2stroke guy, I have some 4banger questions....

samiams2 · Apr 5, 2011

I am REALLY REALLY REALLY thinking about the 1100t......buy I have only had 2strokes...900,700,800 and I have loved them. If I do switch over, then I am going to have to learn a lot of things. I have a couple questions.

-maintenance: Just change oil/filter and go right?

-as you add mods like exhaust, change intercoolers, ecu mods(from speedwerx d&d etc)do you need to change fueling or anything other than clutching?

-Rolling 4strokes over can lose oil out of.....(this is mentioned in another thread too)where does the oil come out of? Is this a problem on all 4strokes?

-Battery: How much does an aftermarket battery cost and how much weight can you drop from this?

pull start: never seen a direct answer to this question. Can you disconnect the electric start and lose a bunch of weight? Or is it just not practical?

Do 4strokes build up the same kind of heat that a 2stroke does? Big issue on the 2 strokes.

What is the mileage life outta these things? I know they are supposed to go longer than 2strokes buy are we talking 30,000 or is the life of the sled not really an issue, meaning the rest of the sled will fall apart before the motor has serious issues?

any other advise or thoughts on things I should keep in mind or think about would be great. PLEASE....if you make a statement or claim...PLEASE OFFER UP SOME FORM OF EVIDENCE OR IMFORMATION TO SUPPORT. If I think of any more questions, I will post them.

Thanks for your help.

Sam

YETIms · Apr 6, 2011

questions are always welcome.

samiams2 said:
I am REALLY REALLY REALLY thinking about the 1100t......buy I have only had 2strokes...900,700,800 and I have loved them. If I do switch over, then I am going to have to learn a lot of things. I have a couple questions.

-maintenance: Just change oil/filter and go right? YES, standard 4 stroke inspection and standard snowmobile stuff, like belt or what ever.

-as you add mods like exhaust, change intercoolers, ecu mods(from speedwerx d&d etc)do you need to change fueling or anything other than clutching? every serious mod will take effect on your engine. if you change the exhaust it will change your a/fr, also mods on intercooler and turbo take effect on your engine.

there are some cool people here in the forum with a lot of years experience on small 4 stroke engines. they should be able to give you a good advice. "rising fuel and boost is not smart tuning"
every stock engine with turbo can be modified to produce more power, if you do it smart you will save a lot of money on parts and you can use it for fuel. or you blow your engine to 450hp and you change parts every week.

-Rolling 4strokes over can lose oil out of.....(this is mentioned in another thread too)where does the oil come out of? Is this a problem on all 4strokes? Relax. you can roll over the 1100 and nothing will happen, just let people in other thread talking about it. if you roll over the sled and let it for hours, for sure you will see some negative stuff.

-Battery: How much does an aftermarket battery cost and how much weight can you drop from this? check that with your local battery dealer. there are million different batteries, i am sure you will find the best choice.

pull start: never seen a direct answer to this question. Can you disconnect the electric start and lose a bunch of weight? Or is it just not practical? not practical. after a long ride it is a hard job to start the engine.

Do 4strokes build up the same kind of heat that a 2stroke does? Big issue on the 2 strokes. not really, but on 4 stroke you have other problems and parts that can fail

What is the mileage life outta these things? I know they are supposed to go longer than 2strokes buy are we talking 30,000 or is the life of the sled not really an issue, meaning the rest of the sled will fall apart before the motor has serious issues?
depend on your ride style. you can kill the 4 stroke in 1000 miles and in 40k miles. just ride it and do not think to much about it. there are many idiots out there who kill their sled in minutes but i think you are not one of those. just be smart and ride smart.

any other advise or thoughts on things I should keep in mind or think about would be great. PLEASE....if you make a statement or claim...PLEASE OFFER UP SOME FORM OF EVIDENCE OR IMFORMATION TO SUPPORT. If I think of any more questions, I will post them.

buy it, ride it and have fun. in next few months we will have a lot of BS postings in the proclimb section, from people mounting a gt42 turbo on that engine, to people they want to cut everything down to save weight, instead going to gym to save some personal weight.

Thanks for your help.

Sam

m8sandman · Apr 6, 2011

just remember the more power you add the less reliable it gets and the maintainence goes throught the roof when you get up in the high hp numbers. 300+hp sleds eat drivers, hifax and anything else in between.

Turbo11T · Apr 6, 2011

The maintenance is the same, check the sled over to make sure nothing is out of place, broken or loose. Check the belt, etc. Heck we do beat the crap out of these sleds. think if you drove your car or truck how we ride our sleds. As for the motor it should be good for many miles, just let it warm up before you ride it, check the oil once in a while, and don't overheat it.

Also I think someone said that the 1100turbo is built for 225 hp from suzuki and cat detunes it to 177. That being said it can handle a few small upgrades, exhaust, intercooler. Even if the exhaust doesn't make more power it will change the repsonse of the sled and make it more snappy. So unless you plan to put a different turbo on or try to run a hijacker box at 290 hp casue someone said you could the motor will be reliable. The boost game is addicting though.

Change the oil once a year. If you here a funny noise check on it. Open the side panels when it is warming up and do a once over. You will have time as your buddies will be putting oil in there sleds.

The weight is going to be there. You will notice it but it won't be as bad as you think it is or alot of guys say it is. Trust me on this one.

Dam Dave · Apr 6, 2011

Carbon fiber battery, put one in my KTM and it weighs 1.2 pounds:face-icon-small-coo

http://www.shoraipower.com/

winter brew · Apr 6, 2011

Might be worth the time to go to the Yami section and just spend some time browsing....TONS of good info on there over the years that will cross over to any 4-stroke/turbo application.

snowmobiler · Apr 6, 2011

if u mod it no warranety.how much is new 1100 engine?

Turbo11T · Apr 6, 2011

Dam Dave said:
Carbon fiber battery, put one in my KTM and it weighs 1.2 pounds:face-icon-small-coo

http://www.shoraipower.com/

That battery looks slick. That is really alot of weight off for a $190. $19 a lb. Not bad.

So

battery -11lbs $190
Muff -15-20lbs $40-$300 Depending upon homebuilt straight pipe, homemade muff or expensive aftermarket muff.

So up to 26lbs off. for under $500. Not bad, I like it.

Another thing to think about is the 1100 nat asp. it supposedly is 530 or so. There your down to a 500lb sled. this puts it in line with what the 1200 skidoo weighed in a short track model. And only about 30 lbs heavier than the ski doo xp summit 600. I think it is going be be nicer than all think.

I know all that there is weight to be cut off the m8 as well but I am jsut talking about the m1100 turbo and non turbo.

Man fall is to far away!

KMMAC · Apr 6, 2011

It's gping to be fun to see what everyone does to the 1100s both turbo and non turbo. JUST from the pics of the chassis looks to me like weight reduction won't be diffucult. Looking at the area around the dash it looks like the air intakes can be modified and whats with xp wind sheild? Those spindles look to be on the bulky side as well. Hope to get to see one soon with the engine panels removed.. Boy,, if I could get in the game I think that an 1100t would be in the shed...

wasatchcomm · Apr 6, 2011

that 1100t is going to surprise a lot of folks next year....

samiams2 · Apr 6, 2011

so you guys are saying u can make ur own straight pipe and just remove the muffler/can? (on a 4stroke is it called a muffler or can? I should at least sound like I know what im talking about

)

u don't need any resistance or back pressure? no fuel changes? what about re-clutching?

how loud is a straight pipe? I have had super-q cans on my 10' 899 and ridden with a 1000 w/ a jaws can...louder than that?

Turbo11T · Apr 6, 2011

samiams2 said:
so you guys are saying u can make ur own straight pipe and just remove the muffler/can? (on a 4stroke is it called a muffler or can? I should at least sound like I know what im talking about)

u don't need any resistance or back pressure? no fuel changes? what about re-clutching?

how loud is a straight pipe? I have had super-q cans on my 10' 899 and ridden with a 1000 w/ a jaws can...louder than that?

Do a google search on the z1. This is the same motor. I think it was speedwerx or bikeman who claim that the motor will compensate for the added flow from a straight pipe or a free'er flowing muffler. Also pretty sure they said that a better intercooler(bar and plate) will also yield gains without needing to change the timing or fuel. I looked this up a couple weeks ago and did alot of reading. It is best for you to look yourself and read it yourself.

I am not sure but the z1 motor may be closed loop or something close to closed loop? Just like the Polaris fst motor so it reads off a O2 sensor.

samiams2 · Apr 6, 2011

Turbo583 said:
Do a google search on the z1. This is the same motor. I think it was speedwerx or bikeman who claim that the motor will compensate for the added flow from a straight pipe or a free'er flowing muffler. Also pretty sure they said that a better intercooler(bar and plate) will also yield gains without needing to change the timing or fuel. I looked this up a couple weeks ago and did alot of reading. It is best for you to look yourself and read it yourself.

I am not sure but the z1 motor may be closed loop or something close to closed loop? Just like the Polaris fst motor so it reads off a O2 sensor.

I will do that. I agree that it is always best if not necessary to learn this stuff for yourself.

what does a "closed loop system" mean?

YETIms · Apr 6, 2011

just a pipe as exhaust will not work.

it make sense to have a can.

Turbo11T · Apr 6, 2011

samiams2 said:
I will do that. I agree that it is always best if not necessary to learn this stuff for yourself.

what does a "closed loop system" mean?

Closed loop is what most cars run with now. The sensors tell the ecu information and the ecu makes the proper fuel and timing adjustments. For instance is the O2 sensor says lean then the ecu adds fuel.

A straight pipe or high flow muffler is going to allow the system to "flow" better. I have not seen the stock muff in person but I would imagine it is quite heavy, and large. Probally has alot of baffling, For two reasons. To create heat. This will help it burn cleaner, Kindof a cat convertor idea, and to make it quiet. Both things to meet epa and sound standards.

Turbo 4 strokes hate restriction after the turbo. The less restriction after the turbo the faster it will spool and the quicker it will rev. A turbo is all about flow, and your motor is an air pump. The better the flow out with less turns the better the flow will be. Cat knows this but they know they need to meet epa and sound level standards as well hence the large suitcase.

Also a better downpipe design will allow the air to flow from the turbo and wastegate better as well. It is all about effiency. Again I have not seen the downpipe on the new m1100turbo but I hope to get a better look at it this weekend.

samiams2 · Apr 6, 2011

YETIms said:
just a pipe as exhaust will not work.

it make sense to have a can.

would you be able to explain why? What do they mean when they say "straight pipe"?

Evolution Powersports · Apr 6, 2011

Samiams,

I was a two stroke guy also - until I bought a short track Apex for trail riding in the midwest. It changed everything I thought I knew about sleds. Even though the sled was physically heavy, you would never know it driving down the trail. Electric start, no two stroke oil, idles like a bike, unbelievable torque and throttle response and a sweet sound. After that experience I said whenever one of the manufacturers makes a serious mountain 4 stroke, I would buy it. This year Cat has done it and it is a TURBO to boot. I am taking a chance, but I am already coming off of a physically light, but fairly heavy feeling M1000. But here is the thing - I PREFER my M1000 to an M8 even though it is heavier because I am a hp junkie. Even my M1000 with a full SLP setup is a best 130 hp at altitude. I am soooo excited to have 180 to start and the sky is the limit from there!!!! From the reports I have read, it sounds like the 1100T feels light when riding. That is the most important thing to me - that and the hp.

A light weight silencer will probably not require an ecu change, but more than that probably will. But that is also the beauty. Because it is a factory boosted sled and the boost is setup to vary with altitude to maintain a certain hp level, the ecu programming is already set up. Yes mapping changes will have to be made, but if they are done right, they will run like factory - no piggy back jerking around trying to dial in a hot day or an elevation you don't normally ride at.

I saw Dave listed Shoria as a light weight battery. I have been testing one of their batteries for a while in anticipation of this sled being released. Shoria make a nice product - awesome for normal weather powersports, but in speaking to their engineer, cold weather may be a problem for their Lithium cells. I am in the process of making a more cold weather friendly light weight lithium start battery. I will have details at Haydays.

samiams2 said:
I am REALLY REALLY REALLY thinking about the 1100t......buy I have only had 2strokes...900,700,800 and I have loved them. If I do switch over, then I am going to have to learn a lot of things. I have a couple questions.

-maintenance: Just change oil/filter and go right?

-as you add mods like exhaust, change intercoolers, ecu mods(from speedwerx d&d etc)do you need to change fueling or anything other than clutching?

-Rolling 4strokes over can lose oil out of.....(this is mentioned in another thread too)where does the oil come out of? Is this a problem on all 4strokes?

-Battery: How much does an aftermarket battery cost and how much weight can you drop from this?

pull start: never seen a direct answer to this question. Can you disconnect the electric start and lose a bunch of weight? Or is it just not practical?

Do 4strokes build up the same kind of heat that a 2stroke does? Big issue on the 2 strokes.

What is the mileage life outta these things? I know they are supposed to go longer than 2strokes buy are we talking 30,000 or is the life of the sled not really an issue, meaning the rest of the sled will fall apart before the motor has serious issues?

any other advise or thoughts on things I should keep in mind or think about would be great. PLEASE....if you make a statement or claim...PLEASE OFFER UP SOME FORM OF EVIDENCE OR IMFORMATION TO SUPPORT. If I think of any more questions, I will post them.

Thanks for your help.

Sam

Turbo11T · Apr 6, 2011

Homer, Where will you be at haydays? I think alot of guys would love a lightwiehgt battery but don't want a battery that won't work well in the cold. Making a otherwise very dependable sled not dependable just to lose 10lbs. I know there are alot of yamaha guys who run ridiculously small batterys that I cannot imagine would even start the sled on a warm day but they make them work. I suppose time will tell how this big thumper turns over. I would guess hard with those monster 3 7/8 diameter pistons.

Evolution Powersports · Apr 6, 2011

Turbo,

We will be in the dealer area. Evolution Powersports. We are a division of Evolution Motorsports (www.evoms.com). Powersports website is forthcoming. All of our powersports R&D is done in MN and CO.

We will have start batteries, ECU modifications for both the new Cat 4 strokes and Yamaha 4 strokes, plus some mountain specific goodies that I can't talk about yet....

Sled208 · Apr 6, 2011

Dam Dave said:
Carbon fiber battery, put one in my KTM and it weighs 1.2 pounds:face-icon-small-coo

http://www.shoraipower.com/

Hey dave,
Suppose they might be scarce for a while?

Japanese engineering and components

I have always been a 2stroke guy, I have some 4banger questions....

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