TMotion delete

Matte Murder · Mar 21, 2018

Bill is your skid stock? Are you running the stock front shocks. I’m wondering if what you are experiencing is coming from the front end. The stock front shocks are really soft and the springs wear out and lose what little bounce they have pretty quick. Using a shock with a real spring or a Fox air helps the Doo chasssis a lot. I usually run quite a bit of rebound damping too to match the added spring pressure. I really notice how much the front shocks help the handling in really deep snow or crusty crappy snow.
The Toms kit comes with a solid front arm as part of the deal. He eliminates the torsion springs and when you do that the skid flexes WAY more side to side with no spring support on the outside rails.
Those t-motion delete plastic washers can’t really do much. If you’ve installed them have a buddy pull the sled up on your garage floor and watch how much “motion” your t-motion still has.

Bill9911 · Mar 21, 2018

Matte- Yes sled is bone stock (but I suspect not for long!) I can see what you mean about the front shocks since when I increased preload it seemed to make a bit of improvement.

Regarding the rear and the TMotion delete, it seems there are a few alternatives:

- Zollinger bronze washers (easiest, cheapest, maybe least solid)
-Skinz Rear Arm and Pivot arm as Lacombe08 suggested ($400, comes out in June, easy to do, and looks very cool and more solid than washers)
- Replace Front Arm, Rear Arm, and Pivot arm with new Ski Doo OEM parts from the "CMotion" sleds (about $400, skid needs to come out and seems like the most solid option-I like the solid front arm addition. i just have to verify parts compatibility).

-Toms- per your suggestion- I don't see anything on his site except the "Emotion"- Is there something else there I am missing?

Cat-man-Doo · Mar 21, 2018

I found this lockout system. Looks pretty simple, easy to lock and unlock for conditions and shouldn't cost much to make.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kDanGk56uE

powdermuncher · Mar 21, 2018

If I had issues with the T motion first thing I would do is a 15 wide track or cut the track down to 15 wide. If you are looking for Axys handling start with the same basics.
Did the same to my Apex way back in the day and the difference was huge? More room in the tunnel less pressure frees up Hp gains track speed. If you want to do something start with something that givers real results first. This will dramatically reduce the leverage on the t motion as well and help them little lockout washers a great deal. If you want more get a c motion rear arm and call it a day.
The easiest way is to Buy an AXYS sled though:face-icon-small-blu

Chadly · Mar 21, 2018

I agree what Matte said about Tom's. I have run that set up for years and it blows me away how much the track pivots. Maybe it's because it eliminates the torsion springs but regardless if you grab my rear bumper on either of my 850's when the sled is on flat concrete the bumper can rotate quite a bit with zero track movement. I have a hard time believing this doesn't make a sled more squirrely. However, if you have a very high skill level this can be preferred.
For example, I used to Wakeboard professionally and rode with no fins. I never taught people to ride with no fins. Most people will never make it to that skill level. Unfortunately novice riders always want to imitate pro level set ups.
That being said, I think you can do anything with the T motion. It doesn't "need" to be deleted to get an 850 to do anything. You just aren't that good of a rider if you have to delete it to "get" the sled to do anything. This is why I think an Axys is an easier sled to ride because it's much more predictable to ride. I still prefer riding a Ski Doo with T motion with the E motion set up. I just think the guys on this forum that spout you "need" to delete it aren't very good riders. Then again I have yet to meet someone off this forum that I would consider an expert rider :face-icon-small-con

High Voltage · Mar 21, 2018

There is something to be said about being humble. :face-icon-small-dis

rulonjj · Mar 21, 2018

Chadly said:
I agree what Matte said about Tom's. I have run that set up for years and it blows me away how much the track pivots. Maybe it's because it eliminates the torsion springs but regardless if you grab my rear bumper on either of my 850's when the sled is on flat concrete the bumper can rotate quite a bit with zero track movement. I have a hard time believing this doesn't make a sled more squirrely. However, if you have a very high skill level this can be preferred.
For example, I used to Wakeboard professionally and rode with no fins. I never taught people to ride with no fins. Most people will never make it to that skill level. Unfortunately novice riders always want to imitate pro level set ups.
That being said, I think you can do anything with the T motion. It doesn't "need" to be deleted to get an 850 to do anything. You just aren't that good of a rider if you have to delete it to "get" the sled to do anything. This is why I think an Axys is an easier sled to ride because it's much more predictable to ride. I still prefer riding a Ski Doo with T motion with the E motion set up. I just think the guys on this forum that spout you "need" to delete it aren't very good riders. Then again I have yet to meet someone off this forum that I would consider an expert rider :face-icon-small-con

Lmao. Ok big guy.

Rotax_Kid · Mar 21, 2018

Here's a post I made on another side in early January. I have a little more experience since then - locking/unlocking for me has been condition dependant. Hard, setup days, where I don't climb - I like it unlocked still.

I spent some time this week going back and forth with my Raptor Ace rear skid which can lock out or allow free movement of the rear arm. Quick rundown..

Pluses..
- Rear end is more predictable
- Finding the tipping point while pulling over is more consistent and seems more gradual
- While climbing, old tracks ruts definitely don't throw the machine around like with the t-motion unlocked
- Inside ski lift on the trail up is reduced
- while sidehiling, rear end seems to washout less
Minuses..
- Rear end is a bit tougher to pull over
- Has taken a bit of the playfulness out of the sled

Overall, the pluses outweigh the minuses, especially while climbing or sidehilling. I don't believe this mod is for everyone. Some will like it unlocked, some will like it locked, depending on what you are coming from and used to. Even with the wiggle locked out, the machine still pulls over easier than a XM did. I'll probably leave mine locked out, but I still need to try it on a different day/different set of conditions to see.

For those who are on the fence, I'd recommend giving it a shot. It makes a fairly big change in machine personality considering the cost. I was surprised at how big of an effect that only a few degrees of movement was making.

Matte Murder · Mar 22, 2018

Bill that’s it. The E-Motion set up. I’ve had 4 of those in dif XMs and loved it. Still have that set up in a 174XM. I went with the Float 3 RC II 5 way adjustable Ski and RTS. I’d budget in front shocks, it all works as a system.

toms · Mar 22, 2018

While there is some stuff still listed in tomssnowmobile.com,
our new suspension website is tomsshocks.com.
Here you will see the new Elevation series rear suspension kits.
New type air shocks for our kit, new billet parts for hardware

Shortline · Mar 22, 2018

toms said:
While there is some stuff still listed in tomssnowmobile.com,
our new suspension website is tomsshocks.com.
Here you will see the new Elevation series rear suspension kits.
New type air shocks for our kit, new billet parts for hardware

Sorry, I just drooled all over your website.

Saving my pennies now!

Do you ever have late/early season specials?

toms · Mar 22, 2018

Yes we do!
You can contact us directly at 530-862-1128 for more details.

ak · Mar 22, 2018

toms said:
Yes we do!
You can contact us directly at 530-862-1128 for more details.

Tom what’s the length on your front track shock in your kits? Does the 175 run a longer front track shock?

toms · Mar 22, 2018

14.3

No. We are not running a longer front track for the 175 sleds.

Matte Murder · Mar 23, 2018

Chadly you have the ARC on your Turbo sled correct? Does it have the Toms Foxes AND the Skinz rear arm t motion delete? Do you have the stock from arm?

Chadly · Mar 23, 2018

ARC replaces the lower piece that aren't replaced on Tom's kit. I have all of Tom's pieces on both sleds. Arc on my turbo and Zmotion on the non turbo (which doesn't really work with Tom's.)

Bill9911 · Mar 23, 2018

Thanks for all the great replies. I guess this means no one is doing anything to immobilize the split front arm when doing the TMotion delete.

So here is another question. I have narrowed it down to 3 options:

1) HYGEAR dual rate FOX IFP set up with HD Ski Doo Torsion springs and Skinz Tmotion delete arms. Cost $1920

2) EXIT Coil over kit and FTS, and IFP front Dual rate, along with Summit XP rear arms. Cost $2200 (I think the correct replacement arms are 503191762 and 503191209???)

3) Raptor Ace coil over, and Raptor front, Cost $3000 (Ouch!)

Opinions?

Bill9911 · Mar 25, 2018

What - no opinions on Snowest? There must be a disruption in the Force!

TJ427 · Mar 25, 2018

FYI - I have Raptor ACE on my 175 and have about 700 miles on it. It has been good but had to buy a new front track shock setup during a week around West Yellowstone and still waiting to hear what Raptor will do on this one.

Bill9911 · Mar 25, 2018

TJ-

Why new FTS? First one went bad or didn’t buy one originally with the Ace?

TMotion delete

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