The bike is coming home for some mid-season maintenance.

Ben 500RR-S · Feb 17, 2019

Some change their engine oil after every ride, some every 2-3 rides, some maybe more. I'm one of the "Maybe, no, definitely more than 3 rides" as I have not changed the oils since the start of snowbike season but here is the story.

My bike has a separate sump for the motor and the xmission. Each holds .80L.

I have 0W40 M1 Euro Formula in the engine side. My motor has been running mint all wintah.

I have Mystic 0W40 snowmobile JASO MA2 rated oil in the clutch side and my Rekluse has worked flawlessly all season.

I'm bringing my bike home anyway, from where it had been staying up in VT to change the oils and give the bike a once-over as I do love the bike and I know that changing the oil and filter is LOVE.

I'll also check the chains and see if they need to be snugged up at all.

wwillf01 · Feb 17, 2019

Ben 500RR-S said:
Some change their engine oil after every ride, some every 2-3 rides, some maybe more. I'm one of the "Maybe, no, definitely more than 3 rides" as I have not changed the oils since the start of snowbike season but here is the story.

My bike has a separate sump for the motor and the xmission. Each holds .80L.

I have 0W40 M1 Euro Formula in the engine side. My motor has been running mint all wintah.

I have Mystic 0W40 snowmobile JASO MA2 rated oil in the clutch side and my Rekluse has worked flawlessly all season.

I'm bringing my bike home anyway, from where it had been staying up in VT to change the oils and give the bike a once-over as I do love the bike and I know that changing the oil and filter is LOVE.

I'll also check the chains and see if they need to be snugged up at all.

So how many hours is that? I know even in my 2 stoke clutch oil is a for sure change by 20 hours...

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

Ben 500RR-S · Feb 18, 2019

I'm not sure how many hours I have so far this season, mostly because Trail Tech Voyager that comes with the bike, doesn't come on when the bike starts. The reason why is that it is comes on when the front wheel pickup passes the sensor. As there is no front wheel, I need to manually turn the Voyager on every time I start or re-start the bike and with some others that have ridden my bike, the hour-meter sometimes does not get turned on.

That is another reason why I want to change, I have had some of my BIL's guests/friends riding the bike.

I have lots of oil and enough time to keep my steed in fine working order.

One other thing I really need to do is to get the bungee's with the ball on the inside of the PST engine cover as the melted snow leaks down to the ball and when riding, the iceball gets bigger and bigger, adding unnecessary weight and drag to the bottom of the bike where the two bungee-balls are down by the footpegs. It's just the little things.

tek9tim · Feb 18, 2019

As my friend Nu Yang says "Do what you want, you're gonna do it anyway"

Fuel dilution and moisture ingress are the two major problems for oil in a snowbike. If your bike consistently runs above 160 degrees and it isn't put through many warm up cycles, then fuel dilution shouldn't be an issue. If your bike gets a chance several times during each ride to make it up over 190 for a little while, moisture will get driven off.

Here's the deal: a bike can run just fine on oil that's been diluted with fuel.. for a while. The oil doesn't have as much lubricity and the long term health of your motor will suffer. Here's the way to verify whether your lack of maintenance schedule is appropriate: send a sample off to Oil Analyzers Inc and see how you're doing. (https://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-prod...zers-test-kit-postage-pre-paid/?code=KIT01-EA) 34 bucks sounds expensive, but damage to a modern 4 stroke bike motor due to improper lubrication under high load isn't cheap either. A lack of problems in the short term does not mean that what you're doing will be good for the motor in the long term.

coryf89 · Feb 18, 2019

yeah im curious as to what your oil looks like after running it that long. you should send it in for an oil analysis.

I personally prefer to change it every ride, or 2 at the most. rotella t6 costs about $3 per oil change and takes 2 minutes, so its not worth risking it.

Chadx · Feb 18, 2019

Ben 500RR-S said:
I do love the bike and I know that changing the oil and filter is LOVE.

Changing every ride or two is love. Changing it every dozen+ rides is just plain mean! Ha. Well, that's the common consensus. I think it's a great experiment that you are doing. You'd previously mentioned you'd gone an entire season without an oil change on one of your snowbikes. Even though the one or two bikes is too small of a sample size to prove anything, it will be interesting to see if you get a 100+ hours out of your topends like most, or if you go down around 20, 40, 60 hours etc. Maybe all of us are changing oil way too much (and I'm talking about those that shroud and keep engine temps up over 180 F. all day and don't see oil levels rise due to overfueling. The overfueling guys better be doing oil changes every ride. Gas is a poor lubricant! Ha.).

So please keep your bikes, rather than sell them, until they pop so we get at least one or two samples. (But if you sell them, please be very frank with the buyer that you ran as a snowbike and rarely did oil changes).

n16ht5 · Feb 18, 2019

Please contain the oil and send it off for analysis. Please!
When you get the results please record a video of your facial reaction.

BendBrapp · Feb 19, 2019

Black Stone Laboratories sells 6 pack kits with prepaid double containment shipping bottles ($25/each). Take a sample, package it, fill out info and drop it in the mail. They can be used for any vehicle. Nice for peace of mind. I did them every oil change for my first season. The data was very helpful to myself and PR2 racing. I have a bike that runs like a top! Just wish I could stop braking stuff in my kit.

https://www.blackstone-labs.com/products/discounts-bulk-orders/

Ben 500RR-S · Feb 20, 2019

I'm going to try and change the oils more often.

I know y'all mean well, it is just that I've been leaving my bike 125 miles north so it is not in my garage, trailer or even in my yard for weeks at a time and we all know that it is just not easy changing oil in a place where it is not heated so, the job/maintenance/LOVE gets neglected.

I'm going to be going to the garage where the bike has been for 24 hours now and drop the oils. I'll eyeball to see if the engine made any oil/fuel dilution from the engine (possibly) not getting to 190F or so and just put new oil in it to get me through the end of the season.

n16ht5 · Feb 27, 2019

well hows the oil look

Jaynelson · Feb 28, 2019

I had one of the 2 oil Honda’s for years and (on a visual) didn’t think it kept the oil much/any cleaner than the all-in-one. I’m also really surprised you can go that long without snuggling/lubing chains. That’s like an every ride or 2 thing. Anyways...glad it’s working, hope it continues to

Ben 500RR-S · Mar 4, 2019

I had changed both oils, clutch and engine and didn't find anything out of the ordinary although, I did not put the used motor oil in any sort of measuring container to see if my bike was "making oil" or fuel was diluting the oil.

There has been no new snow and despite a great base, because of all the freeze/thaw/rain cycles that have come and gone, it is NOT snowbike conditions at all.

At least I have the new snowmobile to ride and will be going up with the family this upcoming weekend to tool around the trails/big mountain meadows on the snowmobiles.

n16ht5 · Mar 4, 2019

weak. you should have had that analyzed! I change my oil every 2 rides... or less
How many hours did you have on that oil?

Ben 500RR-S · Mar 5, 2019

I care, but sort of don't care, about some measurements that are provided in Parts Per Million, and how much metal(s), chemicals, and "stuff" might be in the oil and left behind in the oil. I get the concern as some feel that the stuff is like blood and that wear, contamination and degradation are all bad things. Ok, agreed just like in the body, as is in the motor. They are bad things but I trust both the oil and the motor and that the oil can take what it was designed to with a minimal impact on the crucial internal engine parts that rely on good oil to be protected from wear.

Shoot, at this point, I'm trying to get the motor to get worn so I have some excuse to have it rebuilt to be better than before but it is still running pretty awesome so I'm pretty sure that the blood has not gone bad and worn out the internal organs.

I have to figure that the Mobil 1 Euro Formula, 0W-40, that was rated #5 or #6 out of most all the oils out there in a megatest, that for the snowbiking that I do, I'm pretty sure that the parts per million or PPM of whatever wear metals that might have come up in an analysis, is not going to mean that the engine is now damaged and just worn beyond all reason due to having six, or ten or even fifteen rides, by me, on the same above average performing oil out of all the oils in the world.

I'm glad I got new oils in the bike as I might be taking it out with a friend to beat around on the local groomed trails tomorrow morning.

Time, and the winter season is passing up here in New England and it has been an awesome season two with this snowbike. I'm now gonna wonder if I/we'll get one or two more off-trail rides in the softening snow of which there will be a lot of once we get some above freezing days. It is the way of the world up in my neck of the woods.

n16ht5 · Mar 6, 2019

How many hours do you have on your bike?

Ben 500RR-S · Mar 7, 2019

I have around 3,300 miles and right around 190 hours since I got the bike new on 02/22/2017. Most of these miles/hours are street riding as I use the bike to do my daily 12 mile roundtrip back and forth to work on small city streets.

During the non-snowbike seasons, I change the oil about every 10 hours or so, well before the 20 or 30 hours that Beta recommends.

Our snowbiking is a lot different than out west. Our snow depths are just lower. The snow is probably a lot denser and we don't have mountains to go up or any big elevation changes. I can see out west where one has to be on the throttle and running 8,000-9,000 rpm all day but that just doesn't happen out here. The amount of times I need to run close to WOT are just not there.

As it is, I'll be lucky if I get to ride the snowbike one or two more times before the 40 degree temps starting next week melt all the snow up north.

n16ht5 · Mar 7, 2019

Interesting. I didn't know one could ride on snow without being at full throttle close to the rev limiter...

CATSLEDMAN1 · Mar 7, 2019

SNAKE OIL THEORIES

YOU CAN'T change the oil too often, its just so entertaining when you can't ride in the evenings.

After the last three snow bikes I have tried to wear out its come to my attention that engine wear is more severe in the dirt due to stock foam filters that running in the snow sucking water but no dirt.

I just don't find the valve or ring wear on the snow bikes that you find on bikes that go to the desert or dunes or dusty multi bike rides. I have redone some snow bike heads with stretched valves from newby bike owners that like to run through the powerband. But valve guide wear.........no so much, valve seat wear......not so much.

Last two big bore KTM's we put pistons in that have only lived in the snow, pistons measurements right on spec. Never had to reshim the valves.

I don't recall oil changes being a band aid for abusing engines. I have witnessed twice pro level riders jetting out for practice on their YZ250f Yam, made a couple of laps wfo before their mechanics flagged them in because they had no oil in the bike. Topped off the oil and ran the rest of the year with no issues. Now Kaw will seize the cams, but crank will be alright with no oil for longer than you would guess.

coryf89 · Mar 8, 2019

"the oil can take what it was designed to with a minimal impact on the crucial internal engine parts that rely on good oil to be protected from wear."

huh?? how do you know its "good oil" after 15-20ish hours? it could be 75% fuel and full of bearing dust for all you know. your eyes and nose and measuring cup will never be able to confirm or deny that.

just because its expensive on the stealerships shelf does NOT mean its good oil by any means either BTW. id personally rather run fresh $3 rotella t6 every ride than run worn out, fuel filled, burnt up $60 a liter fancy oil for 15-20 rides in a row. blackstone also does a test for another $5-10 thatll tell you how much life your oil ACTUALLY has in it. would of been very nice to see the stats on a 15-20 hour oil but I sure as hell aint running it in my bike that long. no thanks.

ive got 1 tank on my oil now, with a brand new motor, and a brand new pr2 tuner. probably under 2 engine hours. I might do one more short ride on it and then send it in for a sample.... just to see. I will post my results just for the hell of it. itll help me sleep better at night for $30.

BendBrapp · Jan 25, 2020

My first season with a Snowbike I dropped the oil after every ride and sent it to Blackstone for analysis. (You can purchase a multipack for discount) I used Motorex, Maxima, and Rotella T6 in my 2017 450 sxf. I run a PR2 ECU as well. All of my oil reports got forwarded to Jeff @ PR2 racing.

Running Rotella costs 1/5 of what Motorex does. Funny enough, it performed better by Blackstones numbers and it always feels smooth in the transmission. At $5.25 per oil change, it’s a no brainer. All of the oils saw a breakdown around the 5-6 hour mark for me. For me, that can be one or two rides.

Just had my top end done recently. My piston looked good. Went with a high comp piston and bored throttle body. She moves nice now! Got a late start to my season, so time to get after it!

The bike is coming home for some mid-season maintenance.

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♫ In the pow again. Just can't wait to get in..

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