installing a turbo on my IQR.. Have questions.

yz400ex · Jun 27, 2011

Gus,

Thank you very much for that information.. Now when I am trying to re-position this turbo, I am not looking to unlock and twist the 2 halves. I am actually just looking to rotate the entire turbo to the left 45 degrees.. will this require changes internally?

Thanks again for all your help!

turbolover · Jun 27, 2011

gus bohne said:
Because in the 22 yrs I have been doing it that way you never run out of fuel volume at any boost level and the temps are nowhere near what you think..

FYI, EVEN KTM is now using MY technique on their mx bikes to operate the ex valve !!! with nothing more than 1/4 inch vacuum line !!!!!

Many thought the heat would be an issue.. Now even the OEM knows its not..

Once you understand the relationship of fuel delivery Before boost build you'll get it..
Its NOT mandatory, many still get along fine using the airbox .
For higher boost longer duration pulls on the hammer you damn well want fuel pressure 10 psi over boost.

When you try it, and see that your engine runns the same, you then can surmize the fact that even at the higher pressure you still have NOT overcome the demand for fuel and its not flooding out ?? tells you you still need more to be safe at the 30 [si plus level.

I used this method in the 1988 selds and it was the END to all fuel handling issues.. you can run your base pressure at 2 psi for clean response on and off the throttle too..pipe pressure should be 3-5 minimum over boost, so fuel pressure will rise in advance to boost and will be that same 5 psi over your base.
In my applications for drag racing and speedruns we see 12 -14 psi fuel pressure over boost and have @ dynotech the smoothest fuel flow numbers EVER for a turbo 2 stroke !!! primative carbs they say !!!!! LOL still doing exactly what we tell them too...

....
he has all the current he needs to run it like the doo carbs directly from his 12 v dc charging lead..
i could be wrong though as I am no polaris pro tuner for sure.

Gus

Gus
First, So you are saying that you use the pipe pressure (3-5 psi). As it builds pressure in the pipe before the turbo starts to build pressure in the airbox? This would build pressure in the fuel system in advance of the boost coming up. This would make sure you don't have a momentary instance that it could go lean. Is that correct thinking or am I off in left field?

Second, How do you keep from melting the hose attached to the pipe? Obviously you can't just put in a nipple and stick it right on the pipe. Do you weld in a short pipe to isolate the hose from the heat and still tap the pressure signal or what?

Charlie

Ryanlilly · Jun 27, 2011

turbolover said:
Gus
First, So you are saying that you use the pipe pressure (3-5 psi). As it builds pressure in the pipe before the turbo starts to build pressure in the airbox? This would build pressure in the fuel system in advance of the boost coming up. This would make sure you don't have a momentary instance that it could go lean. Is that correct thinking or am I off in left field?

Second, How do you keep from melting the hose attached to the pipe? Obviously you can't just put in a nipple and stick it right on the pipe. Do you weld in a short pipe to isolate the hose from the heat and still tap the pressure signal or what?

Charlie

Turbolover, here is a pic of what it looks like.
http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=87517&d=1259560546

swrev · Jun 27, 2011

Ryanlilly said:
Turbolover, here is a pic of what it looks like.
http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=87517&d=1259560546

There appears to be a T before the hose gets to the presure regulator--where is the other line going? I am going to change my XP to pipe pressure and see is if it makes much difference. Also Gus mentions 2 to 3 lbs for better response, my regulator is T'd off the blow valve line (sees vacuum when letting off throttle) and my sled likes 5-6 lbs for best bottom response. Will running it off the pipe allow for as quick of drop in fuel pressure and will I need to be lowering fuel pressure that much?

gus bohne · Jun 27, 2011

I use #4 BRAIDED n20 feed line off the pipe ( 18 ish inches ) then useing a barbed splice I run just std rubber fuel line to the regulator.

I do NOT like the idea of tying the bov to the regulator. I've seen instances of fuel pressure flutter at low throttle openings due to the bov chirping and bouncing the fuel pressure around,, The reasoning behind the lower base pressure is to allow for cleaner off on throttle..

pipe pressure is ALWAYS at least 4 psi over boost or you would NOT be making anymore power than a BLOWER..!!!
Pipe pressure climbs before boost ( thats what drives the turbo ) s fuel will rise just a millinsecond before boost,, WOO HOO !!!

so..
3 psi base fuel pressure
8 psi boost = 12 psi ish on the pipe.

12 + 3 base is 15 psi fuel press @ 8 psi boost.

its all just to save our asses from momentary leanouts and to allow fools like me to run huge turbos and 34 + psi boost for up to 10 seconds and not even chip a reed !!!

@ dynotech,, the competition was chipping and breaking reeds on the way up to peak rpm,, The said it was popping / backfiring from the inevitable lean spots a carbed 2 stroke turbo has......Or was it their antique fuel system..??

The answer for them was the "" suicide bomber steel reeds "" well, we know how that worked...EGO is still a huge MALE problem I guess..

Jim was flat out floored when he saw this system not only cure the big carbs on turbos issue but also show bsfc #'s smoother and more consistent than the efi sleds he'd had on too !!!

NO deto period, NO lean spots No starvation !!

If your going to run carbs and make raceworthy or record setting power you have this system to keep your engine alive..

Like I stated above,, its NOT mandatory for under 15 psi at altitude..just different and fun to see the looks when they wonder where that LINE GOES !???

the T is to the pipe pressure gauge.. the fuel pressure gauge is all you need, just subtract your base press from your total in feild press and you have PIPE back pressure # !!!

Gus

KTM uses JUST a nipple and a worm clamp on a pice of black rubber hose !!!!

2009 to present 65 cc mx bike

yz400ex · Jun 27, 2011

Gus,

Here are a few pics of the wicks inside my turbo.. If I ran this turbo setup like this last picture, do you know if this setup would get oiled?

turbolover · Jun 27, 2011

Ryanlilly said:
Turbolover, here is a pic of what it looks like.
http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=87517&d=1259560546

Ryan and Gus
That makes sense now. The way I was envisioning it was just a hose barb nipple with the black hose on it. That way would burn off and leave you with no signal.
Isolating the hose like you have done from the heat with the pipe and braided line it, makes sense now.
I can see how that would work to up the fuel pressure before boost now.
Thanks for the clarification.

yz400ex · Jun 27, 2011

I am glad that everyone is getting a little benefit from this thread!

turbolover · Jun 27, 2011

I went against the grain and built and installed my own turbo setup. I studied every setup I could for over 5 years and still question and try to learn when I see something new or different.
I am not a physics scientist when it comes to Turbos and sleds but im not the average joe that just dumps money on a kit and expects it to just run.
I like to understand why and how something does what it does.
I have this tinkeritis gene. When something doesn't work the way I want it to I figure out a way to make it do what I want.

Ryanlilly · Jul 5, 2011

Hows it coming along?

yz400ex · Jul 6, 2011

Ryanlilly said:
Hows it coming along?

Slow!! :face-icon-small-sad Right now, I am fighting with getting the air/boost box in there right now since the carbs sit so close to the jackshaft. I have been given some ideas on how to do this and have a shorter set of carb boots on the way. I should know this weekend how that works out. I have the fuel pump mounted in there and am working on figuring out where to mount the fuel reg. I pulled the cover off of the turbo and sent some pictures to them of how I wanted to mount and where the wicks currently are and I confirmed with Aerocharger that I can change the orientation of my turbo and do not have to have the wicks changed, so thats a plus. Got me a pipe all lined up so will be ordering new flanges and gaskets from aerocharger once it arrives.. I still have a ways to go..

Now since this pipe I am getting has the sensor that screws into the pipe that I dont need, can I just hook my pressure line to this fitting?

gus bohne · Jul 7, 2011

Yes sir you can..
Dont be affraid of longer or angled tubes connecting the airbox to the carbs..

take your time.. We'll be waiting LOL

Gus:face-icon-small-win

yz400ex · Jul 7, 2011

gus bohne said:
Yes sir you can..
Dont be affraid of longer or angled tubes connecting the airbox to the carbs..

take your time.. We'll be waiting LOL

Gus:face-icon-small-win

Ok, so you are saying worse case senario I cant fit this box in fromt of my jackshaft, I could get some longer tubing to connect mt airbox to my carbs so I can have the box behind the jackshaft? That might work for sure.. I will try these other carb boots first and go from there. It would look much cleaner with the box closer to the carbs also, but its good to know that I do have other options.

Another question I have here is: Instead of cutting and welding the flange directly to the exhaust pipe, could you weld a flange onto a pipe that is shaped like the inlet on the Can, so the pipe can just fit into it like it would stock and then springs just used to hold it together? I have seen it done on a few different turbo setups, but not many so wondering if this is a good idea or not.

I appreciate all the help I have received so far..

yz400ex · Jul 13, 2011

Got the boots the other day.. Now need to find the time to get back to the sled which wont be for a bit. I bought the pipe so waiting for it to arrive and should be here before I make the trip to the sled also. With as short as the boots are, I THINK it will clear the jackshaft now.. Time will tell.:face-icon-small-sad

For the line I need to run from my pipe to the regulator, does anyone know what size fittings are in the pipe, what exactly I need to buy and where I can buy it all at?

yz400ex · Jul 20, 2011

Any info on the line and where to get these parts needed?

Ryanlilly · Jul 20, 2011

I think it says on page 6 of the carbed turbo thread.

Ryanlilly · Jul 20, 2011

I lied, it's not there. It looks like a compression fitting with a short peice for alum tubing?

go high fast · Dec 23, 2012

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installing a turbo on my IQR.. Have questions.

yz400ex

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turbolover

Enduring the heat till Braap Season

Ryanlilly

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swrev

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gus bohne

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yz400ex

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turbolover

Enduring the heat till Braap Season

yz400ex

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turbolover

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yz400ex

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