Tie down in an enclosed trailer
- Thread starter meathooker
- Start date
I am really not so sure that it would matter if you tie them down or not (I do tie mine down). A couple of years ago I had a Haulmark 27' enclosed parked and unhitched from the truck. A storm came through with very strong microburst winds (80+ MPH) that sent the trailer into a full barrelroll. I had a sled straped down inside to the factory rings in the floor. I don't belive that the gforces produced were anything like you would expect in a road accident but it pulled the rings right out of the floor. Luckily it did very little damage to the sled but the trailer had to be totaled.
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D
yes items thrown from trailers are missiles and deadly
will:face-icon-small-ton it ever happen to you? NO
will:face-icon-small-ton it ever happen to you? NO
I just installed glides in my trailer so tie downs will be a must. Before without them the sleds would never move. I'd just pull them in and put on the park brake.
My problem with strapping them down now is that the anchor points in the trailer don't come close to being usable. They don't line up with anything on the sled.
My problem with strapping them down now is that the anchor points in the trailer don't come close to being usable. They don't line up with anything on the sled.
I
Front & Rear on all sleds. Makes a huge difference, Lost my 19' Haulmark with a brand new 2011 Sled in it at 75 mph as the hitch failed upon hitting a freeze seam on a bridge, trailer flipped and rolled twice into the borrow pit. Trailer totaled, sled inside only $250 in damage for both bumpers that tweaked. :face-icon-small-coo
Wow, curious what exactly failed, the truck portion of the hitch or the trailer portion?
I
"Pinch Wedge" type lever of the trailer came undone. (Which I hear is quite common.)
I will NEVER have another trailer with that type of hitch. ALL my trailers (4) now have the "clamshell" hitch, I have had 2 brand new trailers without, cut off and installed with the clamshell. Huge piece of mind .:face-icon-small-coo
I remember that night. I passed it on my way home. That bridge always was rough as heck headed that way.
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C
I had an accident ten years ago with a 2 place flat bed open trailer, things were secure. The Trailer Jackknifed after a slide on Ice. Trailer ended up between the truck and the snowbank pointing the wrong direction. The tongue was under the bed and wrapped around the rear tire.
One sled (a/c thundercat) got loose and flew off the trailer. Landed upright in the road! I ran down ripped the cover off and rode the sled off the road.
Truck nearly totaled, trailer was toast. no damage to the sleds.
You cannot convince me superclamps and straps are going to stop things from going where they are going to go when there are deceleration forces that there is no way to measure.
I don't tie my sleds down in my enclosed. I run studded ties all the way around and the trailer. the goal is to prevent an accident not check the strength of the straps.
After reading this I would not let you give me a set of superclamps. You may be related to my first wife who also thought she was always right.
One sled (a/c thundercat) got loose and flew off the trailer. Landed upright in the road! I ran down ripped the cover off and rode the sled off the road.
Truck nearly totaled, trailer was toast. no damage to the sleds.
You cannot convince me superclamps and straps are going to stop things from going where they are going to go when there are deceleration forces that there is no way to measure.
I don't tie my sleds down in my enclosed. I run studded ties all the way around and the trailer. the goal is to prevent an accident not check the strength of the straps.
After reading this I would not let you give me a set of superclamps. You may be related to my first wife who also thought she was always right.
And for every rider who refuses to wear an Avy pack and beacon, there is one of us who won't ride without it.
In my trailer I strap down the sleds. This year I am adding superclamps and upgraded all the tie down points on the trailer floor so the straps will be even more secure than before.
In my trailer I strap down the sleds. This year I am adding superclamps and upgraded all the tie down points on the trailer floor so the straps will be even more secure than before.
C
You are not talking apples to apples. Riding without a avy pack and Beacon are quite different than tying down some sleds in a trailer with straps an clamps that will break( or break something) at the first sign of trouble.
Add to that some guy trying to pawn his wares by trying to make everyone who realizes his clamps will not help hold the sled secure in an accident feel badly about it.
Just like an Avy Pack and beacon, defensive driving and increased traction is prevention and precaution in case of a unpreventable event.
Tying your 600 lb. sled down with some clamps and straps will prevent nothing during an auto accident.
You know where your sled is riding in the trailer at 50 mph and the trailer comes to a sudden stop even momentarily during the crash I assure you your straps will break and the sled will go where it was going to go anyway. There are too many possible variables to figure the exact load including the time of deceleration. Trust that these forces are way beyond what your straps can absorb or prevent.
Your sled inside the trailer will develop nearly 4 times the kinetic energy at 50 mph than it will at 25 mph.
In case of a less than serious accident say 30 MPH with your sled clamped down. Upon impact Your A-Arms will rip free from the aluminum Bulkhead, straps are next after stretching because they are not rated to stop a 600 lb load that is now suddenly moving 30 MPH Your sled will be damaged beyond repair and useless as opposed to running into a another sled or bulkhead resulting in minor damage to the sled and trailer.
In either case the sled is moving with or without the clamps and straps,
That said what becomes important is what happens to your sled while it is moving. Tied and clamped it ain't so good... left untied it would hit another sled or a trailer wall. damage to the trailer means less damage to the sled as energy is being absorbed though the damage to the trailer. clamped strapped down your sled is totaled before it starts moving and it is going to move.
But if it makes you feel better tie it down.
Do you have slides in your trailer or are the sleds sitting right on the decking?
I'm a firm believer of thing stuff down. Not because of your situation, but becasue if I slide in the ditch and come to a stop at a 45 degree angle I know everything is t going to be piled up into the wall. For a head on into a wall at 30, or more realistically, into another car at 65 straps and tie down bars will not help. For that, if I live, I am a firm believer in insurance of the truck trailer and sleds.
C
In my 2 place my sleds sit directly on the deck with ski carbides butted into a 2x4 screwed to the floor as stops. If I used slides I would tie down loosely to prevent sliding but would never clamp the front end down (again)
that is a recipe for disaster. You don't even have to hit anything to damage the sled if the front end is fixed. Think of all the leverage the weight of the sled puts on the spindles and a-arms during hard braking and cornering. If you tighten your straps down to the point where no movement will occur you have already put stress on your bulkhead the machine was not designed to handle. ( you are pulling backwards on the a-arms)
How many times have you opened your trailer to discover your straps are loose? Why do you think that is? Do you think Artisans loosened your straps?
No it is because your sled moved during your trip.
It does not take a rocket scientist figure this out.
But go ahead clamp her down and strap it up and be sure to contact your dealer and complain about the loose steering on your sled.
that is a recipe for disaster. You don't even have to hit anything to damage the sled if the front end is fixed. Think of all the leverage the weight of the sled puts on the spindles and a-arms during hard braking and cornering. If you tighten your straps down to the point where no movement will occur you have already put stress on your bulkhead the machine was not designed to handle. ( you are pulling backwards on the a-arms)
How many times have you opened your trailer to discover your straps are loose? Why do you think that is? Do you think Artisans loosened your straps?
No it is because your sled moved during your trip.
It does not take a rocket scientist figure this out.
But go ahead clamp her down and strap it up and be sure to contact your dealer and complain about the loose steering on your sled.
B
I have airbags in my enclosed just in case.
So, looks like we have an engineer with us..
KE = 0.5 * mv<sup>2</sup>
Here m stands for mass, the measure of how much matter is in an object, and v stands for velocity of the object
600lb sled = 272Kg
50mph = 22.35 m/s
KE = 0.5 * 272 * (22.35<sup>2)
KE = 67,935 Joules
67,935 joule = 50,106 foot pounds
So, if the sled was to decelerate from 50mph to 0 mph INSTANTLY, we could see our straps subjected to 50K pounds!
So the questions that this raises are..
#1, could the trailer with it's strapped down sleds ever achieve a near instantaneous deceleration?
#2, could any straps withstand the 50K instant load?
#3, could any tie down points withstand the 50K instantaneous load?
==
#1.
While I honestly believe it would be HIGHLY unlikely that anyone in an accident would ever have an instantaneous deceleration of 50mph to 0 to achieve the 50K Ft/Lbs loading, that number IS quickly overcome when we increase the highway speed from 50 to 65 or even up 75mph. If someone had a head on collision with a semi truck and the trailer attempted to come forward right through the tow vehicle OR if the trailer jackknifed into oncoming traffic and was hit by that same Semi-Trailer, then for all intents and purposes, you would get instantaneous deceleration that would OBLITERATE the trailer and all of it's contents. At that point this entire discussion is a mute point. Nothing survives.
But lets be honest here and look at real world survivable accidents.
More often than not we are NOT dealing with a catastrophic accident that results in the trailer being utterly destroyed. More often than not we ARE dealing with a trailer that gets sideways, catches the snow, the side berm, a railing or just goes over the edge and drags the tow vehicle down with it.
In those far more common situations, we are dealing with far more gradual deceleration and a trailer that ends up "Mangled" but not obliterated.
Would properly fastened straps make any difference in that situation?
#2. Could any straps withstand that above scenario?
Just how strong are the real world straps out there?
2 inch Cam Strap</sup>
<sup>Breaking Strength: 3,000 Lbs. Working Load Limit: 1,000#.
</sup>1 inch RATCHET STRAP - MINI
<sup>Breaking strength: 3,000 lbs. Working Load limit: 1,000 lbs.
</sup>
<sup>2 inch RATCHET STRAP</sup>
<sup>Breaking strength: 9,900 lbs. Working Load limit: 3,300 lbs.
3 inch Ratchet Strap</sup>
<sup>Breaking strength: 16,200 lbs. Working Load limit: 5,400 lbs.
4 inch Ratchet Strap</sup>
<sup>Breaking strength: 19,800 lbs. Working Load limit: 6,600 lbs
</sup>
<sup>#3, could any tie down points withstand the 50K instantaneous load?
This is my humble oppinion is where the real problem lies!
I "suspect" that the most likely failure point in a real world crash is going to be the floor mounted tie-downs. I am reaching out to the trailer manufacturers right now asking them just what the load limit really is. If they are surface mounted to the wood floor, there is NO chance of them taking a high load. If they are through mounted to the steel frame, then "perhaps" we will have some usable loads. But right now I have NO real world numbers to report until they call me back.
Just for the sake of general education.
here is a video showing how "strap" failures actually occur.
In the vast majority of cases the strap itself does not fail, it is the ratchet mechanism that gives up the ghost, and this is a function of quality of manufacturing more than anything else.
<iframe width="853" height="480" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/Hh5MP0qoOVY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
</sup>
The pic with Dick's Auto in back ground, is right across the road from my business.
ive been trying to get better at tieing down my sleds.
I have had the same scenario twice now. eight wheel lockup due to a dumb **** making a left in my lane.
both times my fresh sleds got damaged before they even saw snow. the 1200 got the pdp snowflap stoved in and damaged. the 6000 ran into the shelveing in my trailer kinda tweaked my straight bars and ruined the new bar warmers
I have the triton t locking cross bars they work dang good, nothing moves.
kinda don't like rebuilding my builds pre ride
I have had the same scenario twice now. eight wheel lockup due to a dumb **** making a left in my lane.
both times my fresh sleds got damaged before they even saw snow. the 1200 got the pdp snowflap stoved in and damaged. the 6000 ran into the shelveing in my trailer kinda tweaked my straight bars and ruined the new bar warmers
I have the triton t locking cross bars they work dang good, nothing moves.
kinda don't like rebuilding my builds pre ride
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C
Thanks for sharing that Christopher. As you can see none of the sleds shown in the pictures you provided are still tied down.
I am not an engineer however I worked as a volunteer Fireman and EMT for years responding to literally hundreds of auto accidents. I understand The effects from deceleration much better than you think. I have occasional nightmares to help me remember.
My personal experience with my own trailer accidents (One with sleds and another with a guy rear ending My enclosed with 3 Harleys inside) are both different than your results on the ratchet strap. The strap itself broke in both cases and on every machine. In both cases the trailer was pulled home and in both cases was totaled later by the insurance co.
Not that I do not believe that your research is viable but rather different than my real world experience.
Like I said before if it makes you feel better tie the stuff down (with quality straps) but in the end it won't make any difference. Defensive driving and improved traction is the real prevention.
I am not an engineer however I worked as a volunteer Fireman and EMT for years responding to literally hundreds of auto accidents. I understand The effects from deceleration much better than you think. I have occasional nightmares to help me remember.
My personal experience with my own trailer accidents (One with sleds and another with a guy rear ending My enclosed with 3 Harleys inside) are both different than your results on the ratchet strap. The strap itself broke in both cases and on every machine. In both cases the trailer was pulled home and in both cases was totaled later by the insurance co.
Not that I do not believe that your research is viable but rather different than my real world experience.
Like I said before if it makes you feel better tie the stuff down (with quality straps) but in the end it won't make any difference. Defensive driving and improved traction is the real prevention.
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