Motor mounts
- Thread starter aksnopro
- Start date
Going West, no worries, we are all trying to figure the same thing out here.
There is a shoulder on the jackshaft, when you tighten the clutch onto it, the bearing is sandwiched between the clutch and the shoulder. The jackshaft does not float in the tcl.
I thought that too at first, until I tore into it.
Regardless of how it moved, even if it could float in the tcl, it was spot on when I did the update, and off after riding, as others have been.
No assumptions or guesses here, everything I posted is from screwing with the sled for a day. If your jackshaft is floating in the tcl, post some pics. Maybe we all have different sleds/designs and that is why we cannot agree on anything? First year sled, anything is possible.
Cat is here to make money, agreed. Pissing people off and selling a faulty product so they cannot sell more sleds is not how to make money.
I sacrificed a bunch of time and money (work) taking a full day to get measurements, test, build, in order to make my sled ridable, and have posted my findings in order to try to get it figured out, I would like to see other peoples' findings after doing the same. I think we have a video coming.
I am not aiming at anyone in particular here, but it seems there is a whole lot of posting going on and not a lot of research/hard facts. We can argue Cat's intentions all day long, or try to figure out what a team of trained engineers where doing, but it won't solve anything.
Here is my proof that the jackshaft has a shoulder that bearing is sndwiched against with the clutch.
There is a shoulder on the jackshaft, when you tighten the clutch onto it, the bearing is sandwiched between the clutch and the shoulder. The jackshaft does not float in the tcl.
I thought that too at first, until I tore into it.
Regardless of how it moved, even if it could float in the tcl, it was spot on when I did the update, and off after riding, as others have been.
No assumptions or guesses here, everything I posted is from screwing with the sled for a day. If your jackshaft is floating in the tcl, post some pics. Maybe we all have different sleds/designs and that is why we cannot agree on anything? First year sled, anything is possible.
Cat is here to make money, agreed. Pissing people off and selling a faulty product so they cannot sell more sleds is not how to make money.
I sacrificed a bunch of time and money (work) taking a full day to get measurements, test, build, in order to make my sled ridable, and have posted my findings in order to try to get it figured out, I would like to see other peoples' findings after doing the same. I think we have a video coming.
I am not aiming at anyone in particular here, but it seems there is a whole lot of posting going on and not a lot of research/hard facts. We can argue Cat's intentions all day long, or try to figure out what a team of trained engineers where doing, but it won't solve anything.
Here is my proof that the jackshaft has a shoulder that bearing is sndwiched against with the clutch.
G
Yeah you totally got me there. I completely forgot about the shoulder on the JS. It been a long time since I washered up my chain case (I did it way before the update came out) and I did remembered the JS moving on the tcl but thats only cause I had the clutch off. Once its bolted on theres no movement.
However I still dont see how the JS is going to move the motor unless it is assembled under stress (side load on TCL), which makes no sense. I just went and, took a look at mine and everything is aligned that same as it was when I last checked/tightened case nut and added washers. Geo had some issues with his TCL sitting square to the clutch, mine was fine as is, but maybe yours is like his and needs to be shimmed out a bit???
What did you do to get your motor squared away was the rear mag mount loose or did it fail, what caused that gap? Did you ever check the torque on the bottom motor mounts my front two were really loose, the back two were OK.
However I still dont see how the JS is going to move the motor unless it is assembled under stress (side load on TCL), which makes no sense. I just went and, took a look at mine and everything is aligned that same as it was when I last checked/tightened case nut and added washers. Geo had some issues with his TCL sitting square to the clutch, mine was fine as is, but maybe yours is like his and needs to be shimmed out a bit???
What did you do to get your motor squared away was the rear mag mount loose or did it fail, what caused that gap? Did you ever check the torque on the bottom motor mounts my front two were really loose, the back two were OK.
If it's true that clutch are pressed against the bearing, then torque of the bolt that holds the clutch, will be a big factor in bearing life.
Stupid....
Stupid....
http://www.hardcoresledder.com/foru...47-wtf-where-did-catf1000sp-thread-go-22.html
thanks guys, i will not be stopped from making these new cats perfect.
If cat don't i will have all the info needed to do just that.
Had a wierd thing happen yesturdayand today, i have been testing the clutches heat every time i stop trail side, like anywhere from 10 miles to 30 miles in different ways of riding the sled.
I am not sure if the 083 belts have changed or not, but the temps have dropped 30 degrees f from one belt to another and its alot warmer out now, wierd to say the least
I have the temps down to 165 riding hard, there is something going on with a belt with over a few hundred miles, it is glazing and creating to much heat and i clean my clutches almost after every ride, been testing off trail and on trail.
The temps are lower than the xp doo i ride with a xp 600 etec and a renagade xp 800R both of those sleds have hotter clutches, it is so warm riding right now and there side panels are warping from the heat from the muffler.
My side panels are just fine, i know what them doo's need also, they are just lucky they have better belts, they cry a little because my cat gets better mpg's when warmer out than the 800R, it takes more fuel than mine and the 600 etec is almost the same as my 2012 f8, they just might be getting worse mpg's trying to stay up with me because i have more hp's and they have to drive harder to stay with me and the efi is better than doo's set up.
Testing more possible fixes for cat tomorrow and will report again soon.
Might be testing a 084 belt soon.
oh and no vented panels yet on my sled, i know i'm on to something with all this belt heat and why we see it on some sleds and not others.
I also have the secondary heat down to 119 in most riding styles.
stay tuned
Frank
___
thanks guys, i will not be stopped from making these new cats perfect.
If cat don't i will have all the info needed to do just that.
Had a wierd thing happen yesturdayand today, i have been testing the clutches heat every time i stop trail side, like anywhere from 10 miles to 30 miles in different ways of riding the sled.
I am not sure if the 083 belts have changed or not, but the temps have dropped 30 degrees f from one belt to another and its alot warmer out now, wierd to say the least
I have the temps down to 165 riding hard, there is something going on with a belt with over a few hundred miles, it is glazing and creating to much heat and i clean my clutches almost after every ride, been testing off trail and on trail.
The temps are lower than the xp doo i ride with a xp 600 etec and a renagade xp 800R both of those sleds have hotter clutches, it is so warm riding right now and there side panels are warping from the heat from the muffler.
My side panels are just fine, i know what them doo's need also, they are just lucky they have better belts, they cry a little because my cat gets better mpg's when warmer out than the 800R, it takes more fuel than mine and the 600 etec is almost the same as my 2012 f8, they just might be getting worse mpg's trying to stay up with me because i have more hp's and they have to drive harder to stay with me and the efi is better than doo's set up.
Testing more possible fixes for cat tomorrow and will report again soon.
Might be testing a 084 belt soon.
oh and no vented panels yet on my sled, i know i'm on to something with all this belt heat and why we see it on some sleds and not others.
I also have the secondary heat down to 119 in most riding styles.
stay tuned
Frank
___
http://www.hardcoresledder.com/foru...47-wtf-where-did-catf1000sp-thread-go-22.html
did some more testing today while out riding, running down the lake back and forth, riding in temps of about 50 or so degrees f no more belt and clutch heat, after drag racing the sled on the lake the secondary was only about 100 degrees and primary was 154 degrees. weird to say the least.
I think i may have had belts from a different batch to start the season off and the latest one i got was maybe changed a little or my new set up i am running has fixed the belt problem or like stated above, like i have been saying all season, very low mileage belt this 083, the longer you run them the hotter your clutches get, close to 1000 miles and you should thow them in the trash before they blow.
4" of snow and slush and the sled still blows by a 100 with it being 50 or so degrees out.
Just like i said before, the f8 went right by a xf1100t turbo like nothing on the lake. stock for stock
oh, 3900 miles and have not blown a belt yet, you just have to know when to take them off, sad mileage belt for sure.
I think i might have to give them a sanding and see if they come back to life.
frank
did some more testing today while out riding, running down the lake back and forth, riding in temps of about 50 or so degrees f no more belt and clutch heat, after drag racing the sled on the lake the secondary was only about 100 degrees and primary was 154 degrees. weird to say the least.
I think i may have had belts from a different batch to start the season off and the latest one i got was maybe changed a little or my new set up i am running has fixed the belt problem or like stated above, like i have been saying all season, very low mileage belt this 083, the longer you run them the hotter your clutches get, close to 1000 miles and you should thow them in the trash before they blow.
4" of snow and slush and the sled still blows by a 100 with it being 50 or so degrees out.
Just like i said before, the f8 went right by a xf1100t turbo like nothing on the lake. stock for stock
oh, 3900 miles and have not blown a belt yet, you just have to know when to take them off, sad mileage belt for sure.
I think i might have to give them a sanding and see if they come back to life.
frank
R
Sounds like you guys are still hard at it.. Great to see the thinking continuing..
I have found a few things out as well..
1) My sled, and a few others, can NOT come into perfect alignment.. The engine is too far to the Mag side and needs to come outward about .070"
So, running with ANY Jackshaft shim washers installed will amplify the offset issue.. With no washers, the aligment is close and "doable"
My sled's engine is slightly cocked to one side.. so I never have true aligment/parrellelism between my 2 clutches.. the **** is slight but still there.. I can not see any easy way to bring this into spec.
The TCL still benefits greatly from being tied down with either a simple strp or White Rads mount set up..
You can not change where your clutch locates (inward) on the JS. The JS bearing in the tCL is fixed/located..AND the secondary shaft is fixed length.. therefore; your MAX inward location is fixed due to these 2 items.. Again, mine is still too far outward with no washers installed (used the Team Tied) makes this offset even a tad worse (.020") so IMO, the engine needs to move to the PTO side (outward).
So, my thoughts are that if you are running ANY JS shim washers, and you have the same alignment as me and several others, then you are causing yourself issues... IF your sled is not set up , in terms of positioning, as mine, then you may be fine..
The 083 and the 084 belt do not work well until they get some time on them, thney will run very hot until they "take form" after that, they seem to work well. The 084 is definitely a stronger blt that will take more abuse.
The Team Tied is a great clutch, The only things I do not like about it over the stock is the weight and the added shaft length.. it is MUCH heavier than the stock clutch and the added shaft length amplifies the offset issue.. floating the tied will also amplify the offset issue.
I suspect the the heavier Tied is cancelling out some resonance on the JS and this could be helping some.. Onc eyou have the TCL tied down, the oscillations are greatly reduced.. Cat is changing the JS for 2013 but not the TCL design..
The Mag notor mount is definitely too soft.. and this is an issue.. this shold be addressed in 2013 build as well..
All in all , with the TCL tied down and the best possible alignment set up, the clutches work very well..
All the talk on TCL "flatness" and what not is great ,but <IMO< the flatness of the TCL is not a player...Just my opinion..
This is a great sled.. and sometimes we a relooking for things to find wrong that are simply not "players".. we can get sidetracked with this "searching"
I am happy with mine and I think you guys would be as well i fyou tried the TCL tie down and get the alignment as good as mechanically possible..
Kelsey
I have found a few things out as well..
1) My sled, and a few others, can NOT come into perfect alignment.. The engine is too far to the Mag side and needs to come outward about .070"
So, running with ANY Jackshaft shim washers installed will amplify the offset issue.. With no washers, the aligment is close and "doable"
My sled's engine is slightly cocked to one side.. so I never have true aligment/parrellelism between my 2 clutches.. the **** is slight but still there.. I can not see any easy way to bring this into spec.
The TCL still benefits greatly from being tied down with either a simple strp or White Rads mount set up..
You can not change where your clutch locates (inward) on the JS. The JS bearing in the tCL is fixed/located..AND the secondary shaft is fixed length.. therefore; your MAX inward location is fixed due to these 2 items.. Again, mine is still too far outward with no washers installed (used the Team Tied) makes this offset even a tad worse (.020") so IMO, the engine needs to move to the PTO side (outward).
So, my thoughts are that if you are running ANY JS shim washers, and you have the same alignment as me and several others, then you are causing yourself issues... IF your sled is not set up , in terms of positioning, as mine, then you may be fine..
The 083 and the 084 belt do not work well until they get some time on them, thney will run very hot until they "take form" after that, they seem to work well. The 084 is definitely a stronger blt that will take more abuse.
The Team Tied is a great clutch, The only things I do not like about it over the stock is the weight and the added shaft length.. it is MUCH heavier than the stock clutch and the added shaft length amplifies the offset issue.. floating the tied will also amplify the offset issue.
I suspect the the heavier Tied is cancelling out some resonance on the JS and this could be helping some.. Onc eyou have the TCL tied down, the oscillations are greatly reduced.. Cat is changing the JS for 2013 but not the TCL design..
The Mag notor mount is definitely too soft.. and this is an issue.. this shold be addressed in 2013 build as well..
All in all , with the TCL tied down and the best possible alignment set up, the clutches work very well..
All the talk on TCL "flatness" and what not is great ,but <IMO< the flatness of the TCL is not a player...Just my opinion..
This is a great sled.. and sometimes we a relooking for things to find wrong that are simply not "players".. we can get sidetracked with this "searching"
I am happy with mine and I think you guys would be as well i fyou tried the TCL tie down and get the alignment as good as mechanically possible..
Kelsey
A
Its not the belts unless i have got 6 bad ones including the 084.
I pulled a cord on both sides of my 084.
I would love to restrap my tcl, and throw stiffer duro mounts in, but cat probably wont waranty anything else down the road if i do. So ill wait for there updates and beg for belts till then... He told me to remove the strap, that costem a belt!
We will see what they come up with they know my sleds up to date and the 084 is still pulling cords... We will see what they say.
-Aksnopro
Last edited:
A
Anch suz thinks it causes mote stress on the jackshaft, so if that or the chain case breaks will cat warranty it? I have been lucky getting new belts but would be so pissed if i had to buy a jackshaft, chain or gears ect...
-Alsnopro
-Alsnopro
G
R
Yes, and Yes,
At full shift they would hit, but I never get to full shift.. I am considering doing this,, but the clutching works real good as is... just a bit of added heat due to this slight misalignment.. I MAY machine the Team Tied shaft and try it again.. not sure yet because the sled is rippin hard, the 925 kit makes things pretty fun!!
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