strange issue with '17 800 PRO

turboDS1300 · Jan 15, 2019

strange issue with '17 800 PRO - FIXED

Appreciate your help with this one guys...

I've got a 17 PRO RMK 800 with a Silber running 10lbs. Hasn't missed a beat, ran great, until the other day. Was on the trail accessing the backcountry in Colorado last week when we came to a stop, idled for about 30 seconds, and then took off again. Sled wouldn't rev above 58-5900, maybe even 6k. Runs crisp up until that point, meaning it will lift the skis and just about toss you over the bars once it cuts out. Was able to ride it about 20 miles out from that point, not running hot or strange below 58-6000rpm.

I've been messing with this the last couple days back home in MN. I've got another '17 setup identically so I've been switching parts back and forth and the problem has stayed with the original sled. Even with back of sled lifted off the ground or drive belt off (primary free-wheeling), it won't pull past 6k.

Here is what I've tried so far:
-new plugs
-compression test at 120psi (same as last test I did last season)
-I've updated to the waterproof relays (all 3)
-Switched e-ves cables
-switched entire e-ves assemblies
-cleaned e-ves assembly
-switched pipe sensor
-switched coils
-switched ECU's
-looked for any wiring getting chaffed/grounded

The problem is at a consistent rpm and doesn't seem to matter if I crush the throttle or come on smoothly. I'm aware of the e-ves relearn procedure for swapping valves to different cylinders but had the opportunity to try swapping them as to check those off the list. I can watch the e-ves actuator cycle upon startup on both sleds. No codes are thrown.

What am I missing? Fuel pressure? TPS? Sled is going to get a digital wrench scan later this week but I feel like I'm missing something terribly obvious. Thanks for your time!

Update 1/18/19 - issue was resolved finally. The turbocharger's turbine wheel had a piece of the power valve preventing it from spooling. New turbo fixed the issue.

WAsledder · Jan 15, 2019

Have you tried swapping the PWM sensor for the exhaust valve actuator. The 17s had a bad batch of these.

turboDS1300 · Jan 15, 2019

I have not. Will try that tonight or first thing tomorrow. Thank you!

CROW · Jan 15, 2019

Swap clutches?

dboivin · Jan 15, 2019

hear nothing about clutches? have u pulled belt and see if it revs over 6000?

562xp · Jan 15, 2019

Try changing the plugs also.

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Murph · Jan 16, 2019

My first thought was E-VES system.. you hit most of the normal culprits

PWM Converter — great suggestion.
Clutches— also good based on what you have tried

Reeds?

Murph · Jan 16, 2019

dboivin said:
hear nothing about clutches? have u pulled belt and see if it revs over 6000?

I would NOT recommend doing this. Without a belt the moveable sheave SLAMS into the fixed sheave and can damage the clutch and/or shear faces.

turboDS1300 · Jan 16, 2019

Just swapped the e-ves PWM converter. No change in the field. Clutches have been swapped, and although I agree it isn't a great idea to engage the primary without a belt installed, I did try that too. RPMs still cut out hard around 6. I did pull the cover off the primary clutch, check the springs/rollers/weights and everything is functioning properly). Plugs have already been swapped. I did not look at the reeds or fuel pressure yet, however due to how it seems to be hitting a low rpm rev limiter (regardless of how aggressively the throttle is applied), I don't have high hopes for either of those. Going to try bypassing the e-ves actuator shortly and just pulling the cable manually. Thanks for your input.

turboDS1300 · Jan 16, 2019

holding the e-ves cable all the way open (actuator unplugged) and cracking the throttle did alleviate this issue. Spun well into the 8k's without sputtering. Just swapped the e-ves actuators and its still sputtering/surging when the e-ves moves from the 2nd to 3rd position. Seems to be timed exactly with that movement. Not sure if its the e-ves closing first and causing the rpm limitation or if something else (like ECU output) telling the e-ves to back off?

richracer1 · Jan 16, 2019

turboDS1300 said:
holding the e-ves cable all the way open (actuator unplugged) and cracking the throttle did alleviate this issue. Spun well into the 8k's without sputtering. Just swapped the e-ves actuators and its still sputtering/surging when the e-ves moves from the 2nd to 3rd position. Seems to be timed exactly with that movement. Not sure if its the e-ves closing first and causing the rpm limitation or if something else (like ECU output) telling the e-ves to back off?

When changing actuators, a E-VES relearn needs to be done.

Perk · Jan 16, 2019

have you tried a TSS bypass?

turboDS1300 · Jan 16, 2019

richracer1 said:
When changing actuators, a E-VES relearn needs to be done.

Understood. Just throwing it out there that the 'sister' sled that I've been swapping parts off has continued to work fine with the e-ves parts off of the problem sled, even without the relearn being done. I've swapped cables on their own and complete valve assemblies back and forth and sister sled keeps ripping while problem sled shows no change.

turboDS1300 · Jan 16, 2019

Perk said:
have you tried a TSS bypass?

no, haven't messed with throttle safety switch at all yet. I did adjust the throttle cable after this issue started and no change. Does it seem possible that this could be a TSS issue? I'll have to look at it I guess but can I build a quick jumper for testing purposes to bypass that switch?

Always war · Jan 16, 2019

Might want to check your fuel pickup lines inside the tank.

turboDS1300 · Jan 16, 2019

I will take a look at this, however remember she ran real good with the e-ves actuator unplugged and the valves manually held open. Doesn't seem like a fuel limitation.

turboDS1300 · Jan 16, 2019

Also swapped all 5 capacitors with no change in either sled.

Perk · Jan 16, 2019

turboDS1300 said:
no, haven't messed with throttle safety switch at all yet. I did adjust the throttle cable after this issue started and no change. Does it seem possible that this could be a TSS issue? I'll have to look at it I guess but can I build a quick jumper for testing purposes to bypass that switch?

you could just disconnect the TSS in the sleeve right above the upper steering post mount and stick an ohm meter on it. Resistance should increase as you squeeze the throttle - should max out at full throttle around 6.8k ohms. Connector is a long white one btw.

diamonddave · Jan 16, 2019

turboDS1300 said:
holding the e-ves cable all the way open (actuator unplugged) and cracking the throttle did alleviate this issue. Spun well into the 8k's without sputtering. Just swapped the e-ves actuators and its still sputtering/surging when the e-ves moves from the 2nd to 3rd position. Seems to be timed exactly with that movement. Not sure if its the e-ves closing first and causing the rpm limitation or if something else (like ECU output) telling the e-ves to back off?

Just to confirm, you got the 8000RPM when you manually pulled the cable?

Does the actuator move or attempt to move at all under command from ECU circuit? I am a little confused if the statement above when you talking about it sputtering between the 2nd and 4rd position if that was happening on it's own during the command of the EVS motor.

Out of curiosity, how many miles on this?

Have you cleaned your grounds?

Perk · Jan 16, 2019

turboDS1300 said:
holding the e-ves cable all the way open (actuator unplugged) and cracking the throttle did alleviate this issue. Spun well into the 8k's without sputtering. Just swapped the e-ves actuators and its still sputtering/surging when the e-ves moves from the 2nd to 3rd position. Seems to be timed exactly with that movement. Not sure if its the e-ves closing first and causing the rpm limitation or if something else (like ECU output) telling the e-ves to back off?

Sorry did not see this, does not sound like the TSS at all.

strange issue with '17 800 PRO

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