2019 AXYS-MTN REACT™ 37" WIDE SUSPENSION, IFS SHOCK LENGTHS

bailer · Mar 11, 2018

When I switched over to the 36” Zbroz I planned to use the factory shocks as some said they do. I thought no problem having a bit more clearance up front.... wrong.

I realized the problem when I had the sled up on the lift and the shocks are at full extension, as one side will be when sidehilling, and is up in the air at full steering lock. There is significant binding because the spindle and arm don’t have enough clearance to operate at the increased angle.

If you just have the sled sitting on the floor with some sag, this problem is not evident, but will arise when sidehilling as described above.

I now run the shorter spec Exit with Zbroz spindle and it operates properly. Really glad to see Polaris has narrowed things up a bit.

FatDogX · Mar 11, 2018

bailer said:
When I switched over to the 36” Zbroz I planned to use the factory shocks as some said they do. I thought no problem having a bit more clearance up front.... wrong.

I realized the problem when I had the sled up on the lift and the shocks are at full extension, as one side will be when sidehilling, and is up in the air at full steering lock. There is significant binding because the spindle and arm don’t have enough clearance to operate at the increased angle.

If you just have the sled sitting on the floor with some sag, this problem is not evident, but will arise when sidehilling as described above.

I now run the shorter spec Exit with Zbroz spindle and it operates properly. Really glad to see Polaris has narrowed things up a bit.

Your exactly right!! One of the areas you can see the "bind" is at full extension is on the sway bar links. the sway bar will bind on the plastic link and pretty soon they are broke!!!

JJ_0909 · Mar 12, 2018

Sheetmetalfab said:
Gas shock repair in Idaho.

I second this. Great rates, top notch quality.

If you are in Cali Tom is great with all Fox stuff though obviously he's skewed toward Doo

JJ_0909 · Mar 12, 2018

bailer said:
When I switched over to the 36” Zbroz I planned to use the factory shocks as some said they do. I thought no problem having a bit more clearance up front.... wrong.

I realized the problem when I had the sled up on the lift and the shocks are at full extension, as one side will be when sidehilling, and is up in the air at full steering lock. There is significant binding because the spindle and arm don’t have enough clearance to operate at the increased angle.

If you just have the sled sitting on the floor with some sag, this problem is not evident, but will arise when sidehilling as described above.

I now run the shorter spec Exit with Zbroz spindle and it operates properly. Really glad to see Polaris has narrowed things up a bit.

If anyone does try what I am suggesting (bolt them directly up without shortening them) you *must* check to see if there is any bind or metal/metal anywhere in the stroke. This requires taking the springs off manually checking, especially at top out. I'm not totally sure if there will be bind at top out without shortening the stroke.

I am nearly positive if you shorten the stroke to get the same eye to eye (or say within 1/4" of the same eye to eye) it will work 100% fine.

kylant · Mar 12, 2018

JJ_0909 said:
I second this. Great rates, top notch quality.

If you are in Cali Tom is great with all Fox stuff though obviously he's skewed toward Doo

thanks,
I am about 1hr from Tom. I will give him a call

FatDogX · Mar 12, 2018

So.........

I pose another question.

I'm looking hard at snowchecking and currently have a 17 with an upgraded 37" K-Mod front end with a full set of Raptors. This set up works great but.......

Does a guy pull this complete front end off and put this on the new 19 or........

Keep the 19 front end and re valve the stock clickers ?

Or, put a set of Raptors on the stock a-arms ?

Thoughts ?????????

AndrettiDog · Mar 12, 2018

summ8rmk said:
The 5/8" difference in length is no where near as critical as valving and spring rate!

Not even close, not even in the same discussion!

90% of riders won't even notice the difference from the shorter shock.

Neutral riding position is the only time there will be a noticable difference. (Sitting in the gararge or Driving down a smooth hiway). Add some preload to the front track shock and problem is solved.

The only issue from a longer shock would arise at full extension, tierods or other suspension part may rub. If not, ur good.

Alpha ......

This is what I was thinking. I might call Zbroz and see if they can re-valve my X1's from my 800 for the 8fiddy. Another option is to rebody the shock. If the work was a few hundred bucks (with other clean up work), it's a better deal than buying new.

On another note, I don't know what to think of those new springs. I think Polaris found something lightweight but possibly sacrificed functionality. Just go look at Zbroz, Raptor, Ohlin, etc springs. They are the opposite. Thick and tighter springs. Maybe Polaris is onto something, or maybe those shocks won't be worth a damn. If they are truly needle shocks, that might help.

alt · Mar 12, 2018

FatDogX said:
So.........

I pose another question.

I'm looking hard at snowchecking and currently have a 17 with an upgraded 37" K-Mod front end with a full set of Raptors. This set up works great but.......

Does a guy pull this complete front end off and put this on the new 19 or........

Keep the 19 front end and re valve the stock clickers ?

Or, put a set of Raptors on the stock a-arms ?

Thoughts ?????????

I would wait to see what options may arise, but that's just me

Mentzel · Mar 12, 2018

Run the long front shocks and lower skid front torque arm down one hole in tunnel so skid lightens extended ski pressure. (Like Assault config.). That’ll be one tall and tippy SOB.. but some like it that way..

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Mentzel · Mar 12, 2018

I can’t imagine riding down winding access trails with a 37” ski stance. 15 mph around every corner.. What a PIA.

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summ8rmk · Mar 12, 2018

Mentzel said:
I can’t imagine riding down winding access trails with a 37” ski stance. 15 mph around every corner.. What a PIA.

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Seriously Not a problem.

mountainhorse · Mar 13, 2018

FatDogX said:
So.........

I pose another question.

I'm looking hard at snowchecking and currently have a 17 with an upgraded 37" K-Mod front end with a full set of Raptors. This set up works great but.......

Does a guy pull this complete front end off and put this on the new 19 or........

Keep the 19 front end and re valve the stock clickers ?

Or, put a set of Raptors on the stock a-arms ?

Thoughts ?????????

I'm assuming that the 840 will become your primary sled... either keeping the 17 as a backup or selling it...

IMO, easy choice.... pull the complete front setup off your 17 and put it on the 19... you'll have some seriously well made arms, and top notch shocks on your new sled. The valving is the same because the setup is the same.

You can put your 17 back to stock if you still have the parts or run the 19 setup on that sled.

Keep the 19 spindles on the 19.

Ride hard!

.

FatDogX · Mar 13, 2018

Mentzel said:
I can’t imagine riding down winding access trails with a 37” ski stance. 15 mph around every corner.. What a PIA.

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Not an issue at all!!! The 37" flat out works and the only problem is........Polaris has been behind the curve and should have released it sooner!

FatDogX · Mar 13, 2018

mountainhorse said:
I'm assuming that the 840 will become your primary sled... either keeping the 17 as a backup or selling it...

IMO, easy choice.... pull the complete front setup off your 17 and put it on the 19... you'll have some seriously well made arms, and top notch shocks on your new sled. The valving is the same because the setup is the same.

You can put your 17 back to stock if you still have the parts or run the 19 setup on that sled.

Keep the 19 spindles on the 19.

Ride hard!

.

Yes the new 19 would be my primary sled and the 17 would go down the road.

You pretty much solidified what my thoughts were on swapping front ends around. The K-Mods and Raptors are tough and work great! The only thing that I was thinking, was that it would have been nice to have stock A-arms for those situations you need a replacement. You know for those times we happen to find 36" rocks or stumps with 38" of snow..........:face-icon-small-dis

tdbaugha · Mar 13, 2018

AndrettiDog said:
On another note, I don't know what to think of those new springs. I think Polaris found something lightweight but possibly sacrificed functionality. Just go look at Zbroz, Raptor, Ohlin, etc springs. They are the opposite. Thick and tighter springs. Maybe Polaris is onto something, or maybe those shocks won't be worth a damn. If they are truly needle shocks, that might help.

Those SLS springs are legit. They are the high end offering from Fox in the MTB world. I'm sure they're used in other applications as well.

JJ_0909 · Mar 13, 2018

tdbaugha said:
Those SLS springs are legit. They are the high end offering from Fox in the MTB world. I'm sure they're used in other applications as well.

^^^ This.

They are really cool. I've tested them extensively during summer. Almost like ti - in both the way they react to a bump (more lively) and weight.

I'm actually going clickers on my 840. The Axys RMK is now coming with the needle valve walker evans, a shock I've been seriously impressed with (so long as its valved right) in the past. Complimented by good springs, well, its sort of a no-brainer for $500.

Setup right, those shocks are every bit as functional as the Fox, Raptor, Z-Broz stuff. They don't have as much adjustment (no rebound), but yeah, it rides awesome and doesn't hold me back one ounce.

For those that haven't ridden the needles, they are night and day to the old clickers.

mountainhorse · Mar 13, 2018

For aftermarket shocks.... (the factory WE does not have Rebound adjustment) Rebound adjustments on all snowmobile shocks that have them that I've seen are not true rebound adjusters anyway... they are piston bypass adjustment valves.

The 'rebound adjuster' affects both low speed compression and rebound events.... although, the compression 'clickers' do not affect the rebound adjustment.

I'd call them more of a 'compliance adjusters' as they allow the amount of fluid that bypasses the valve stack, in both directions, to be adjusted.
One of the reasons that the EVOL-R shocks, with only the rebound adjustable, in terms of fluid control, are popular with sledders... since you get both rebound and compression adjustment with the same knob.

If your compression settings are where you want them to be... and you re adjust your rebound settings... you will also be changing the compression settings with that as well. It is nice to have... but requires that you have a better intuitive feel for the shocks you have, and take more time dialing them in and knowing where you want to be for a given riding situation.

If you are not going to take the time, in the shop, and on the snow to dial in an adjustable shock... then don't bother with purchase in the first place, IMO.

.

.

mountainhorse · Mar 13, 2018

The W.E. Needle shocks really are nice end-of travel damping control for high impact events... tunable with changing needles (disassembly of shock required)...

Some find them just right at the end of travel...some too soft, some too stiff... another dimension to the equation.

If I had time to kill before the season, I'd definitely change out the WE mineral shock fluid in them to Amsoil full-synth shock oil before the season even started.
This will stretch out the service intervals of your shocks, especially if you like to run them on the stiff side.

.

mountainhorse · Mar 13, 2018

One of the things that I keep comming back to that actually does matter to me is that you are loosing a bit more than 10% of your travel if you are setup for the factory ride height.

The argument above is that many do not mind going to extra setup to bring what they feel is a good balance.

To have pressures correct on skid and IFS... with a longer installed IFS shock length... you will need to extend the FTS, which will increase the approach angle of the track... or, somehow, find a way to shorten the RTS... you can only dial back RTS preload so much before you start to loose spring-keepers, or soften the rear just too much.
You could install a shorter/stiffer RTS spring as well... but there is a tradeoff.
'Squatting the rear' of the sled will limit travel... which I really enjoy having.

I'm of the opinion that the Rear skid setup should be worked around by the front... and not the other way around.

JJ, I heard you use the term 'vanilla' above... and often that has the connotation of being less than ideal. You seem to be a well versed 'suspension guy',... and you do make accurate statements regarding what is possible...but I just cant see past needing that background, scales, time, years of experience etc to get to a point that works.

IMO, the Suspension on the AXYS sled, both front and rear, is pretty sophisticated... The factory is limited by budget to the level of shocks and materials that can be used... and this is where aftermarket can help out greatly with damping control, adjustment and adaptability to terrain/conditions.

I'm as cheap as the next guy...and I feel I have a better than average understanding of suspension systems... at least thats what the people in the industry tell me... having the right proportions to start with give me a more pleasurable experience on the snow and less time worrying about my setup.. especially when riding with buddies that dont want to take time to wait while I take the time to get my seld dialed in and 'learn' how my current setup is behaving and tweaking.

I understand FULLY that 'there are many ways to bake a cake' and setup of a sled is a personal thing.... there are many high level riders that have a particular setup they like outside of factory installed heights etc... and many that ride at high levels, with the factory heights and proportions intact.. and use a damper that works well with this. I think the second group doesn't take as much time in setup.

.

tdbaugha · Mar 13, 2018

mountainhorse said:
To have pressures correct on skid and IFS... with a longer installed IFS shock length... you will need to extend the FTS, which will increase the approach angle of the track... or, somehow, find a way to shorten the RTS... you can only dial back RTS preload so much before you start to loose spring-keepers, or soften the rear just too much.
You could install a shorter/stiffer RTS spring as well... but there is a tradeoff.
'Squatting the rear' of the sled will limit travel... which I really enjoy having.

IMO, the Suspension on the AXYS sled, both front and rear, is pretty sophisticated...

Good points Eric. I hate to beat a dead horse here, but one way that I can easily tell how sophisticated the stock suspension is, when box stock shock lengths, spring rates, and preloads are used, these sleds walk right up out of holes when they are stuck with a simple ski pull. Like almost without fail.

Nearly every sled that has aftermarket suspension, shocks (air shocks in particular), springs, etc, that is not set up perfectly does not walk out of holes. They tend to dig much more and saw they're way out of stuck situations.

So yes you can throw all kinds of shocks and suspensions on these sleds and they do "work". Especially while traveling at nearly any speed. But it is very very hard to improve upon the slow speed flotation ability and ability to not get stuck of the factory setup.

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