sled
also we did do 2 short tracks to and running awesome!!!!
also we did do 2 short tracks to and running awesome!!!!
Redneck Racing.. The Fix for the 800 Dragons
- Thread starter Outlaw525s
- Start date
S
I'm fairly new to the forums here, but I would like to throw my two cents in on the gizmo. I have had several discussions with outlaw and I fully agree with their theories on whats happening to these motors. If you look as far back as 2002 with the big block 800's one difference you will see with the design on those motors was a large diamert hose bypassed from the bottom side of the thermostat to front portion of the pump where the empeller was blending warm coolant with the cold coolant before it enter the motor. Water pumps on the 09's possibly 08 and newer the coolant is brought directly into the bottom of the case where the pump is driven off of the crank and there is no bypass hose tapped into that pump delivering warm coolant. The only bypass hose you see is the small (possibly 1/4 or 3/8 I.D.)hose coming off of the pto side of the motor where it crosses over the carb rack and into the overflow bottle. This does not allow enough volume of warm coolant to blend with cold coolant coming in from the coolers which has a hose I.D. of an inch. Look at metallurgy figures and see what happens to alluminum, steel, etc. with 1 degree celsius change or in other words 32 degrees farenheit. Now think about this, a hot piston fully expanded as much as it can and all of a sudden a cylinder thats blasted with cold coolent shrinking around a fully expanded piston because it doesn't get the cool shot of water like the cylinders and a crankshaft rotating 7500 to 8000 times per minute. Consider rod angle and piston rock as it begins its travel back up the cylinder also remember that on a cold motor your cylinder wall clearance is only .006 (The average human hair is only .002-.003 thick). Manufactures have gone to great extents to lighten up sleds which means thinner metal in the tunnels and heat exchangers to help achieve that. Spoke with an engineer this morning and he explained the amount of temperature transfer in aluminum that is taking place for every .001-.002 diffence in metal thickness. I could probably go on and on, but these are just some of the ideas that I have pondered and came up with which does make some sense.
O
GIZMO DYNO Numbers are in and up.
Thanks for all the orders and reports. I am glad to hear that of the 200 plus kits on the snow we have not had a proven failure. We have had three sleds go down that had the kit. One was a Turboed 800 that had a massive detonation due to playing with numbers, The other was a stock 800 that was a cold seize the computer readout said 8000 RPM at 80 degrees. And the Third is in South Dakota and the cause is not determined for sure yet from the look of the pictures it could be coolant ingestion from a bad headgasket. I would say that we are not doing to bad. Most of the sleds out with Kits have better than 600 miles and some are above 1000 miles without failure.
We currently have Dealers in the following areas.
Baker City,OR
John Day,OR
Delta Junction,AK
Healy,AK
Eagle River,AK
Pinedale,WY
Freedom,WY
Laramie,WY
Rock Springs,WY
Idaho Falls,ID
Centerville,UT
Herreid,SD
Aberdeen,SD
Jackson,WY
Grand Praire, AB. Canada
We are currently working on more dealers.
As for the DYNO reports that everyone has been asking for The enhancement Kit has increased the Horsepower and Torque. We did not design this kit for HP it is just a side effect of an equalized system.
I will scan and post the readouts as soon as they get back from Morgan UT.
These are altitude corrected numbers. From CPI Racing.
2009 Assault 156 with a brand new engine at 100 miles on a Dynomite Clutch Dyno.
Temp HP Torque RPM
115 135.2 89.76 7948 Stock Sled
Same sled with the Enhancement Kit
Temp HP Torque RPM
145 138.1 91.66 7950 W/ Kit
On the stock run we can see a midrange drop
On the Sled with the Enhancement Kit we had no midrange drop and are above at all ranges. An Equalized system Works.
Questions and comments?
Thanks
T
Thanks for all the orders and reports. I am glad to hear that of the 200 plus kits on the snow we have not had a proven failure. We have had three sleds go down that had the kit. One was a Turboed 800 that had a massive detonation due to playing with numbers, The other was a stock 800 that was a cold seize the computer readout said 8000 RPM at 80 degrees. And the Third is in South Dakota and the cause is not determined for sure yet from the look of the pictures it could be coolant ingestion from a bad headgasket. I would say that we are not doing to bad. Most of the sleds out with Kits have better than 600 miles and some are above 1000 miles without failure.
We currently have Dealers in the following areas.
Baker City,OR
John Day,OR
Delta Junction,AK
Healy,AK
Eagle River,AK
Pinedale,WY
Freedom,WY
Laramie,WY
Rock Springs,WY
Idaho Falls,ID
Centerville,UT
Herreid,SD
Aberdeen,SD
Jackson,WY
Grand Praire, AB. Canada
We are currently working on more dealers.
As for the DYNO reports that everyone has been asking for The enhancement Kit has increased the Horsepower and Torque. We did not design this kit for HP it is just a side effect of an equalized system.
I will scan and post the readouts as soon as they get back from Morgan UT.
These are altitude corrected numbers. From CPI Racing.
2009 Assault 156 with a brand new engine at 100 miles on a Dynomite Clutch Dyno.
Temp HP Torque RPM
115 135.2 89.76 7948 Stock Sled
Same sled with the Enhancement Kit
Temp HP Torque RPM
145 138.1 91.66 7950 W/ Kit
On the stock run we can see a midrange drop
On the Sled with the Enhancement Kit we had no midrange drop and are above at all ranges. An Equalized system Works.
Questions and comments?
Thanks
T
4
I installed the gizmo on my 2008 700 Dragon 155. One of the benefits of installing this kit is it allowed me to remove the front heat exchanger very cleanly (I used the 163 coolant bottle as well). I did use a worm style hose clamp on the 5/8” hose from the head instead of the spring clamp style, it was not applying enough pressure and I had a small drip leak.
The high temperature light has never lit up, and the hottest I have seen the temperature was at 145.
The high temperature light has never lit up, and the hottest I have seen the temperature was at 145.
O
Gizmo and stock Dyno Charts
Please explain the MASSIVE drop in torque and HP between 4-5k over stock.
And why do they look like two different dyno program print-outs?
Not to be a dick, just VERY skeptical. Ive never seen different printout's from the same dyno/program.
EDIT: or is that just a change in font for some reasoning?
And why do they look like two different dyno program print-outs?
Not to be a dick, just VERY skeptical. Ive never seen different printout's from the same dyno/program.
EDIT: or is that just a change in font for some reasoning?
G
Why would you dyno the stock sled at 115 degrees? Its not even warmed up to operating temp yet.
O
Good Question, We ran it at 115 because there are multaple post regarding the fact that we run our engine temp at 140 to 150 folks are claiming that there sled runs better at 100 to 115. Including the engine builders.
Sorry for the difference in Reports. I had them scanned and E Mailed to me and I had to Edit them so we could see the lines.
If you look at the Drop on the stock it is jagged then look at the drop in the Gizmo it is smooth. That is were the system goes from Lower to upper Injectors.
Thanks
T
H
I am little concerned about the head gasket issue and if that was a result of a high water temp and/or increased pressure. Maybe a hot shot happened as described by R44
Also, I think it would be very beneficial to have the gizmo dynoed by Dynotech. He is the only dyno guy I trust in the sled community. He is non biased and willing to test any aftermarket engine performance item. Plus, he has a controlled environment with tons of data to compare.
Also, I think it would be very beneficial to have the gizmo dynoed by Dynotech. He is the only dyno guy I trust in the sled community. He is non biased and willing to test any aftermarket engine performance item. Plus, he has a controlled environment with tons of data to compare.
W
they drop 4-5 is from bottom injecter to the top injecter. also at 5 is when the exvalves open up at... as for the 2 sheets of dinfrent dyno runs one shos stock sled without gizmo..... the other shows it with the gizmo kit on the sled...........
O
OK Make up my mind
Alright, Back from UT with the Dyno sheets. Scanned them into my PC. Three Runs With the Kit Average Taken, Three Runs Stock Two Pics taken to show different running temps and what it does. We ran numbers at 115 to show the people that think a sled should run at 100 to 120. We then took numbers at 125 to show what most sleds are running. We then took numbers at 145 with the Gizmo to show what we are running with the kit at the temps we run at consistantly. We did not develope this kit for a horsepower or torque gain. It was developed for engine longevity. The gains are a bonus. For everybody that still has doubts I can understand that. We are not forcing any one to buy this kit. We are simply putting it out there as an option for those that want to extend the life of the sled. Not to be an a$$ but we have better than 200 kits on the snow without failure and all reports are nothing but how much better the sled runs. And yes we do have the miles. Take a look at the reports and make up your own mind. All I can say is 200 plus people that have installed and have had no problems can't be wrong.
Thanks to everybody for the questions and comments. Look for our editorial and add in the Snowest digital Feb and the March issue.
Everybody have a great winter.
Again Thanks to everybody that posted good or bad
T
Alright, Back from UT with the Dyno sheets. Scanned them into my PC. Three Runs With the Kit Average Taken, Three Runs Stock Two Pics taken to show different running temps and what it does. We ran numbers at 115 to show the people that think a sled should run at 100 to 120. We then took numbers at 125 to show what most sleds are running. We then took numbers at 145 with the Gizmo to show what we are running with the kit at the temps we run at consistantly. We did not develope this kit for a horsepower or torque gain. It was developed for engine longevity. The gains are a bonus. For everybody that still has doubts I can understand that. We are not forcing any one to buy this kit. We are simply putting it out there as an option for those that want to extend the life of the sled. Not to be an a$$ but we have better than 200 kits on the snow without failure and all reports are nothing but how much better the sled runs. And yes we do have the miles. Take a look at the reports and make up your own mind. All I can say is 200 plus people that have installed and have had no problems can't be wrong.
Thanks to everybody for the questions and comments. Look for our editorial and add in the Snowest digital Feb and the March issue.
Everybody have a great winter.
Again Thanks to everybody that posted good or bad
T
O
thanks for all of this info Outlaw... So far so good for me!
P
mine actually went down with the kit but fortunatly it wasnt from the gizmo
i love that thing it makes ridnig alot more worry free and adds some torque to as well
R
Well that ends the story that this a fix all! Pledge800 what happened that your sled went down? I think the jury is still out on how much longer the gizmo may extend the engine jug & piston life on these sleds but what is the higher heat going to do to the engine as time goes by?
P
mine actually was the mag side rod bearing we figured that when it went down before i got it they didnt clean out all of the crap out of the bearing and it wore till it got loose enough to start wearing badly and got some metal shavings in the piston didnt hurt the jug but i know for sure that it wasnt from the gizmo only had it on for 150 miles out of a total of 600 this year
when that bearing went i had the highest temps that i have ever seen i seen 183 degrees at one time from building heat in the bearing but before that i had around 140 degrees constant
O
all the reviews on this kit have been absolutly excellent.. now im spending more of my time ridding my own sled and not fixing other peoples sled! cheers boys... got 650 on mine with the kit.
O
Thanks
Thanks for the post. We are glad to hear that everybody with a kit is enjoying the winter. We have had nothing but great reports. We have had a few sleds go down that had kits but can tear them down and tell that the failure was due to other causes. We have had 2 of the thermostats in the Gizmo fail out of the several hundred that we have sent out. We replaced them at no charge. I guess we are not doing to bad considering that out of 3000 thermostats we have only had a couple of bad ones. Keep the updates coming. When your rider gets back from cook with the 1500 miles let us know. Everybody that does not have a kit watch your temps and check your pistons after every few rides. It may save you from having to replace a cylinder.
Thanks
T
Thanks for the post. We are glad to hear that everybody with a kit is enjoying the winter. We have had nothing but great reports. We have had a few sleds go down that had kits but can tear them down and tell that the failure was due to other causes. We have had 2 of the thermostats in the Gizmo fail out of the several hundred that we have sent out. We replaced them at no charge. I guess we are not doing to bad considering that out of 3000 thermostats we have only had a couple of bad ones. Keep the updates coming. When your rider gets back from cook with the 1500 miles let us know. Everybody that does not have a kit watch your temps and check your pistons after every few rides. It may save you from having to replace a cylinder.
Thanks
T
What were the other causes?
O
#1 Turboed 800 hole in the mag side piston.
Detonation due to adjusting fuel numbers in Boonedocker box also had 1 strand left on the oiler cable.
#2 80 degree engine temp at 8000 RPM. Cold Seize!
#3 Melted head gaskets from a previous over heat issue due to a bad head thermostat, Injested Coolant.
#4 Customer stated that the rod bearing went from not cleaning the engine during the rebuild.
5 and 6 sleds are fine they would not come to temp due to bad thermostats in the Gizmo. We replaced them and both sleds are know running 140 to 145 with more power and no cold shot.
Thanks
T
3,000 sold...Really???
