Some 2016 Team clutch info

kanedog said:

Come on out to the mountains. If you can make a belt last 300 miles I'll pay for your trip, everything except the hookers and blow. Even better, you, being a flatlander can school the mountain riders how to tune a team in the mountains.
I don't need to learn, nor do I run a team but I would attend the "man from Minnesota teaches mountain riders how to clutch" class.
One more thing-why is team such a good clutch?

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Never said I was an expert, just pointing out the fact every time I have heard someone claim they are junk it usually comes out they don't know how to tune them. No need to get defensive, wasn't implying it was you. Also, never said team was the best clutch, there are many out there I haven't tried. But I have had good luck with them and know a lot of guys that have had good luck, which we all ride in the mountains. I was simply stating that if the stuff they make is junk like you claim, nearly every OEM wouldn't be using them... So don't worry no one is challenging your wealth of knowledge, you can un-puff your chest now. :face-icon-small-win

Why is a Team so good again? I think I missed your response.

Bottom line is. Its more cost effective for Cat to go this route. All comes down to the bean counters and cheapest bidder. You don't think Polaris has there motors figured out on based on miles per year, warranty claims and units sold. I dumped 600 in my 15 primary this summer on parts that are proven to work.. We all know what works, but is it cost effective to put high end parts in? No it would raise the price and you will loose sales. So all the parts in our sleds are built by the cheapest bidder. Awsome!

That was supposed to be a thumbs up. Sorry bout that. I have fat fingers

kanedog said:

The amount of holes is indicative of cheap *** metal used in the manufacturing process. If a better grade of recycled aluminum is used, it costs more and is more consistent.
Team clutches are built for the absolute least cost possible in every aspect. If this means they can save 25 cents using recycled beer cans full of dirt, beer and insects, then that is what they will use.
Don't try to defend a junk metal and manufacturing process done in China selling each clutch for $20 each to dumb North americans.

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Nearly everything that has decent mass and spins fast needs balancing after the manufacturing process. Either add weights, or shave off.

Not defending team clutches here.

Kane, since you are the clutch manufacturing genius, why not tell us how you would produce clutches that do not require balancing holes or weights?

And dont say, "well Jeff, I'd use better metal" as if you are some sort of metalurgy engineer.

Bottom line Kane, fast spinning objects of significant mass need balancing after the manufacturing process.

Quit whining like a little biotch!!

Team castings

I am neither a proponent or opponent of TEAM but have learned this summer that TEAM makes all the primary clutches for the three major manufacturers--Arctic, Polaris and Ski Doo. Why: As it has been told to me they can and do supply a finished product of more uniform density (READ: requires less balancing) than anybody else. I have a new TEAM primary on my bench with less than 3 small holes in each plane--very amazing for a 13 pound piece of cast aluminum that the low bid proponents say is made from beer cans. Maybe a basic class--- #101 Aluminum Smelting and Casting would be a good start for those lacking a true understanding of what goes on.


Quote: ("Why did this only happen when Team started making clutches? It never happened on earlier sleds.")
Answer: Earlier sleds--20 years ago--did not produce the HP that current sleds do. Clutches did not begin to face the torture test that todays do.
Also---The base casting is not the whole clutch--we have weights and springs plus the influence of the secondary cam. Very easy for the OE engineers to configure a clutch that will generate heat and destroy belts all the while having a basic clutch with excellent properties. Plus the following:


Ski Doo will not and it looks as if Arctic now will not acknowledge that the manufacturing process of the chassis has tolerances in excess of what is necessary to provide correct clutch alignment and are providing no way to accommodate correction. Most people are not aware of what "true" clutch alignment is and how to obtain the same. Virtually every clutch alignment tool on the market only aids in the alignment of the clutches in ONE GEOMETRIC PLANE and most do not even do this they only measure the offset not alignment. The few people I have ever encountered who really know how to align clutches realize that they need to be aligned in TWO GEOMETRIC PLANES. This is virtually impossible to achieve with current style Ski Doo without cutting and welding engine mounts--how many dealers or riders will do this?


The snowmobile community keeps buying sleds instead of demanding better quality.

Well Jeff, I'd use better metal.

Tracks I year what you are saying.
I believe that what we are dealing with here is low bidder. It doesn't matter if the clutch is junk. Team sells replacement clutches, helix's and springs. The manufacturers sells $15 belts for over $200. Everybody wins except the consumer. There is no reason to fix anything profit wise.
20 years ago, there were not 13 balancing holes in any clutch. If there were, it was laughed at and then sent back. Today it's accepted as normal in the snowmobile world. There are 30 lb steel vehicle rims that are closer than team clutches right from factory. There are millions of spinning items that don't need much balancing.
It's not even the clutch balancing holes that is a problem. It's the fact that the engines from factory(as you stated) come so far out of alignment, not shimmed properly, deflection not set that it's an embarrassment to the factories.
Even if that issue is addressed, the clutches don't perform as they should. This might work for 90% of riders but it doesn't make it right. Don't be surprised if team starts selling belts in the future. Thatd be a shocker.(sarcasm)
What I would I do to fix this problem? I'd fire the quality control people at Team. Then I'd quickly layoff the dead weight around there. I think I'd even fire the owners and start building a quality product. Bean counters-fired. Product development-fired. Marketing-fired. Customer service-fired. Subcontractors-shape up or ship out.
Team wouldn't make near as much money so I wouldn't be too popular with the stakeholders but at least I could sleep at night knowing I'm not getting rich off of other people's suffering.

kanedog said:

Tracks I year what you are saying.
I believe that what we are dealing with here is low bidder. It doesn't matter if the clutch is junk. Team sells replacement clutches, helix's and springs. The manufacturers sells $15 belts for over $200. Everybody wins except the consumer. There is no reason to fix anything profit wise.
20 years ago, there were not 13 balancing holes in any clutch. If there were, it was laughed at and then sent back. Today it's accepted as normal in the snowmobile world. There are 30 lb steel vehicle rims that are closer than team clutches right from factory. There are millions of spinning items that don't need much balancing.
It's not even the clutch balancing holes that is a problem. It's the fact that the engines from factory(as you stated) come so far out of alignment, not shimmed properly, deflection not set that it's an embarrassment to the factories.
Even if that issue is addressed, the clutches don't perform as they should. This might work for 90% of riders but it doesn't make it right. Don't be surprised if team starts selling belts in the future. Thatd be a shocker.(sarcasm)
What I would I do to fix this problem? I'd fire the quality control people at Team. Then I'd quickly layoff the dead weight around there. I think I'd even fire the owners and start building a quality product. Bean counters-fired. Product development-fired. Marketing-fired. Customer service-fired. Subcontractors-shape up or ship out.
Team wouldn't make near as much money so I wouldn't be too popular with the stakeholders but at least I could sleep at night knowing I'm not getting rich off of other people's suffering.

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20 years ago, Cat didn't even balance their clutches. Good old Comet stuff.:face-icon-small-sho

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