King cats dominate m1000?

2000TCMC · Mar 21, 2008

HANDSOME said:
Why would reving higher make the King Kat beat the M1000 ? I had an XLT and it reved pretty high....

If your motor revs higher you can gear it down effectively providing more torque to the track keeping track speed higher on the hill. My sled turns 8900 and I am running 2.27:1 gearing.

The twins I ride with have more base touque but run at a lower rpm on the top all in all it makes up for the lack of bottom end torque on a triple.

I think what he was saying is that he can gear his King Cat lower since it turns higher R's and pull better track speed on the hill.

But just my opinion.

Idcatman3 · Mar 21, 2008

idacatman2 said:
^^^That's awful big of you to admit little bro..... But he is right fellas, there is no way a stock King Kat is touching an M1000. With equal weight riders on both sleds I think the M1000 will take the big bore King, but it isnt by much. I love the M chassis over the 1M, all in what you prefer.

Greg

I'll tell it like it is, I can also say though that the big bore King has towed out 3 M-sleds this year and the only problem it has had is a broken chain.

Seriously though, if you've got a King and like the way it handles, you can put a little money into it and be pretty even with the new stuff. If you can't stand the way they handle, the newer chassis might just be for you.

In my comparison, neither sled was really stock, the 1M is actually a bored 800 (not quite the power of a stock 9), with a pipe, can, reeds, head and tuned correctly.

the King also has the same goodies (pipe, can, etc) and is tuned well, but is running the Camo extreme 2.5, which in the snow we were in should perform better than the stock M1000 track.

Me on the King, my brother on the M, the weight is probably a wash, so I'm not really sure that our experience shows what a stock-stock comparison would be. Anyway, enough about that.

You also can't just turn the King Cat motor faster. Pipes are designed for a specific RPM, you can't just put in lighter clutch weights and make more power.

You can make other changes designed to raise the operating RPM such as a shorter pipe or changing port timing, but these will not necessarily get you more power.

cokingcat · Mar 21, 2008

I have an 05 KK that has everything done but nos, big bore kit or a turbo witch they don’t make for it. I can say that from a dead stop at a bottom of a climb the M1000 (stock) can’t touch what the KK can do. I can say with a good starting run the M1000 can normally out climb a KK, depending on the snow conditions. I think this is due to track speed because of there new clutch. But all said and done the M1000 is a straight shooter kind of sled. Hands down, even though M1000 has a so called better riding position, that sled will tire you out soo much sooner then a KK when boondocking. When power carving it’s all or nothing, where the KK you have a perfect balance all of the time. You can throw a lot of money at the M1000 but you still have a harder powder turning sled. It just comes down to what kind of riding you do, and if you want to spend the extra $$ on a stock sled and no money left for the aftermarket toys. How about rebuilding a top-end on the M1000, is it easy as the sold style chassis?

tallone66 · Mar 21, 2008

KingKant

Just came off a kk with speedworks single, cutler clutching and a few other mods. Now drining a bone stock 08 1000 ( With can ). No way in the world the kk can keep up. The 1000 out climbs out handles and just plain outperforms the 900. Dont get me weong, loved the 900 but I cannot see me going back to the platform when the m series id all round beter. My 2c worth.:beer;

CatndHat · Mar 21, 2008

Interesting enough stuff here, I just called the local shop to go ride the 09s
for demo on the 26th, I did squeek a sno-check price of $11,928.00

for a 162 le camo w/boss seat. Seems pricey if I need to slap fuel delivery unit, head,
Y and pipe plus the new clutch set up for these bolt ons for full performance.
Sounds like an extra grand, easy. Is new track design, 29# savings over last years, new chassy design, and a real fresh motor and drive train to beat worth the $13K???
That demo better be verry impressive to yank me off my old style (paid for long ago) upgraded but reliable 1m. I guess at some time new iron becomes too tempting but fawk, throw in the $4+ a gallon fuel bill for the season not to mention I will need full coverage insurance for this toy even if I pay cash for it just to comfortably ride it hard!

Xrider · Mar 21, 2008

The M1000 is 3 times more money than a KK. Shouldn't it perform 3 times better?

HANDSOME · Mar 21, 2008

Lots of comparo's but stock m1000 vs mod king.... I think anyone who mods a KK would mod an M1000 and regardless of rpm out of either engine you can gear both machines down to 2:1 or if both can be geared to 65 mph at their peak rpm the one with more hp and torque should prevail providing all things equal.

900kingcat · Mar 21, 2008

I have rode a king for a while and seen alot of M1s and the only reason i can think of that the king floats on the snow better has got to be the attack twenty track it has versus the M1s challenger track

570MC · Mar 21, 2008

"I have rode a king for a while and seen alot of M1s and the only reason i can think of that the king floats on the snow better has got to be the attack wenty track it has versus the M1s challenger track"I agree with him aswell. the M1 are alot lighter but i think the attack 20 keeps them on top. I have only ridin a M1 about 2 times didnt ride it for that long just carved a few circles.

76FOMOCO · Mar 21, 2008

I have rode the 1m and the m1 back to back and I still think I like the 1m better but I have a forward post and a boss seat on my 1m, with this said I even had a doo rider tell me it lays over better than he thought ( as he was picking it up off it’s side). The old iron has a few drawbacks if you would like to call it that but on the trail I can spank all of them and on the hill I can keep up with the best of them even if they have me in weight ( all the extra money I have in my wallet aka 6k) will slow you down. If you look the king is the bench mark 9 and 1000 are put up against and all of this out of a 862. if I had a dime for all of the times I have herd (I should have kept the kk) this will tell you some thing but as for to the top dollar for dollar the king will beat the m1 3 times over!

0neoldfart · Mar 21, 2008

How it is...

To whom it may concern: If a STOCK king cat is beating up on a STOCK M1000, the M1000 is either a) running on one cylinder, b) piloted by someone who cannot drive a sharp stick up a dead dog's a**, c) has stuck power valves, d) is set up worse for mountain riding then a Honda CR125, or e) all of the above. The reality is that the king cat was a great sled, but it isn't quite there with the M1000. Prior to the M-sled, I had an 860 Rev on nitrous that could hang a beating on the kings I went up against, but my M1000 (single pipe, can, clutched, etc), would hang a licking on the old Rev, which BTW was also about 85 lbs lighter. You may not like the nose heavy feel of the M, but that can be tuned out of them, and adding MODS skis will change your view of how the M handles. As far as being 3x the price - the 05 King Kat out the door was $12300 up here and I paid $13500 tax in for my 07 M1000 out the door. You cannot factor in depreciation when you are comparing apples to apples. Is the M perfect out of the box? Hardly. Is it good when set up? Absolutely. Ride what you want, you are entitled to your own opinion, but be realistic when calling out another sled.

Kong · Mar 22, 2008

Had 1M 900 well set up and loved it BUT doesn't even compare to my M1000 in steep and deep. M1000 isn't a drag racer, but sure takes a lot to get em stuck and they handle so great.

1M bottom end hit is a thriller, but over all it is yesterday's design... stock vs stock.

Oh yeah to one person's steering issue, you just have to get it set up right and you won't have to worry about it again. Also in the bumps, the M1000 is so much easier to ride.

xsummitx · Mar 22, 2008

Kong said:
Had 1M 900 well set up and loved it BUT doesn't even compare to my M1000 in steep and deep. M1000 isn't a drag racer, but sure takes a lot to get em stuck and they handle so great.

1M bottom end hit is a thriller, but over all it is yesterday's design... stock vs stock.

Oh yeah to one person's steering issue, you just have to get it set up right and you won't have to worry about it again. Also in the bumps, the M1000 is so much easier to ride.

WHAT CAN BE DONE TO FIX THE HEAVY NOSE/STEARING PROB...THAT IS MY BIGGEST AND ONLY ISSUE WITH MY M ...ON HARD PACKED IT SUCKS EXCEPT WHEN LANDING ON IT(IT REALLY TAKES THE BUMPS)

76FOMOCO · Mar 22, 2008

Let the front limiter strap all the way out and put a forward mount post on with a taller seat helps out a lot.

irydcat · Mar 22, 2008

Xrider said:
The M1000 is 3 times more money than a KK. Shouldn't it perform 3 times better?

I think everybody forgot what the king costed new I think it was to the tune of 10000 if I recall.In onother 2 years we will be buying 1000s for 5000 dollars too.

Bowslayer · Mar 22, 2008

I had a speedwerx big bore 1m and...

twin pipes, reeds, spacers, 50/50 fuel and the 162 2.5 16 track, and the m7's with jaws twins were right with me, so I can't see it. That being said they made enough of a believer out of me to buy a m7 and put Jaws twins on it. LOL

WoodeeeM1000 · Mar 22, 2008

0neoldfart said:
To whom it may concern: If a STOCK king cat is beating up on a STOCK M1000, the M1000 is either a) running on one cylinder, b) piloted by someone who cannot drive a sharp stick up a dead dog's a**, c) has stuck power valves, d) is set up worse for mountain riding then a Honda CR125, or e) all of the above. The reality is that the king cat was a great sled, but it isn't quite there with the M1000. Prior to the M-sled, I had an 860 Rev on nitrous that could hang a beating on the kings I went up against, but my M1000 (single pipe, can, clutched, etc), would hang a licking on the old Rev, which BTW was also about 85 lbs lighter. You may not like the nose heavy feel of the M, but that can be tuned out of them, and adding MODS skis will change your view of how the M handles. As far as being 3x the price - the 05 King Kat out the door was $12300 up here and I paid $13500 tax in for my 07 M1000 out the door. You cannot factor in depreciation when you are comparing apples to apples. Is the M perfect out of the box? Hardly. Is it good when set up? Absolutely. Ride what you want, you are entitled to your own opinion, but be realistic when calling out another sled.

If you read the post they are not stock king cats i was comparing the stock M1000 to!!!

Kong · Mar 22, 2008

xsummitx said:
WHAT CAN BE DONE TO FIX THE HEAVY NOSE/STEARING PROB...THAT IS MY BIGGEST AND ONLY ISSUE WITH MY M ...ON HARD PACKED IT SUCKS EXCEPT WHEN LANDING ON IT(IT REALLY TAKES THE BUMPS)

I hated mine on the hardpack steering and trails. I couldn't hardly steer mine.

First set the tow out about twice what they call for in the manual (I can't remember)

Limiter out all the way

Set your rear spring (the one with the triangle adjuster) one setting softer than you like. (I know this sounds weird but it really helps the transfer)

Loosen front shocks spring as much as you can stand. Very soft.

Then we switched to the Artic Cat dual runner with the split in the middle. (This keeps the runner from packing up) (on stock skis)

When you are on the gas (even lightly) the front end is very light on the ground, but the duel runners hold most excellent and won't bother you at all in the powder.

It will now track much straighter and not dart all over the place.

The front will always feel a bit heavy even with all kinds of front end mods like pipes, air intake, can. My buddy has everything on his including holz rear suspension and it still feels heavier at the front than 1m900 KK or M7 M8.

Where the geometry of the M1000 really shines is hill climbing. If my front end was much lighter I couldn't keep the nose in control when it gets really vertical.

We have set up a number of M1000's and M-8's and two M7's this way and everybody really liked the improved trail/hard pack manners.

Kong · Mar 22, 2008

cokingcat said:
I have an 05 KK that has everything done but nos, big bore kit or a turbo witch they don’t make for it. I can say that from a dead stop at a bottom of a climb the M1000 (stock) can’t touch what the KK can do. I can say with a good starting run the M1000 can normally out climb a KK, depending on the snow conditions. I think this is due to track speed because of there new clutch. But all said and done the M1000 is a straight shooter kind of sled. Hands down, even though M1000 has a so called better riding position, that sled will tire you out soo much sooner then a KK when boondocking. When power carving it’s all or nothing, where the KK you have a perfect balance all of the time. You can throw a lot of money at the M1000 but you still have a harder powder turning sled. It just comes down to what kind of riding you do, and if you want to spend the extra $$ on a stock sled and no money left for the aftermarket toys. How about rebuilding a top-end on the M1000, is it easy as the sold style chassis?

I guess different strokes and all that.

I hated my M1000 when I first moved onto it off an 03 1M900 very nicely set up. After the first season no way I'd go back. The 900 had a fun flashy riding feel with the bottom end hit and I miss that but... after a day of riding I am so much fresher than on the 900.

I don't quite understand the quoted opinions because the M chasis throws around, carves, boonies way better than the KK 1M. I can carve with less effort, play in powder all day... etc. The M had a reputation of having a mind of it's own on the steep climbs. My 1000 162 climbs and turns on the steeps with very little effort and offers a level of finesse on the hills I never had before.

From a dead stop up a hill the 900 is a bomb off the line. The M1000 with the stock track spins. But keep making the hill steeper, deeper, rougher, and longer and the M1000 will out climb (high mark) the 900 all thing equal a huge majority of the time. And in the truly deep and nasty I know my 900 wouldn't have a chance against the M1000 on a deep powder day in the some of the bowls we encounter. I go places at times, I never could traverse on my 1M.

IMHO

Perk · Apr 24, 2008

I have one M1K in my group. It will not run with my KK. There are plenty of keyboard jockeys on here, I am not one of them. I would be the first to admit it if they would out climb my KK. The guy in our group has spent a lot of money and time on his sled and never got it there.

First question is rider ability. Not a factor as I have pulled many climbs on mine and then switched over to his. All of my comparisons are me on his sled vs. me on my own sled.

Second question is N2O. You can see in my signiture line that I run it. All of my comparisons are without running N2O. When I add N2O, it is a waste of time to compare them.

Third question is who is setting up his sled. That's valid and could be the issue. It pulls rpm fine so I doubt it is too far off, but you never know.

To me, it feels like this sled cannot get up on top of the snow. All of my comparisons have been new snow (1 1/2 + feet). That is what has always impressed me about the king, it gets up on top like nothing else. That is what converted me over from the edge chassis.

Bottom line, the king cat is the hummer (H1) of snowmobiles. It will rattle your kidneys out, but it is hard to beat in the back country.

Last point... am I saying an M1K can't beat a King Cat? Hardly, I am just saying I won't be getting rid of mine until I cross paths with one that can (mine of course). I hope it happens soon because I am turning 38 this year. I can't take too many more years on the king. But I do love er....is it wrong to love your sled too much? HAHAAA CHEERS!

King cats dominate m1000?

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