Patriot 850 failure rate less than 2%

phatty said:

That's is some seriously shady statistics. 1 sled could belong to the bearing and the oil line failure (we have people on the forum who have had all 3 on the same sled). That does not equal 5% overall failure. Its tempting to just add them up, but statistically you cannot do that and be accurate at all.

10k sleds, 1% failure is 100 sleds. Group A
10k sleds 2% failure is 200 sleds. Group B. It is entirely possible that all 100 sleds from group A are in Group B, or 0 from group A. Thus the maximum failure is 3% and the minimum is 2%.
10k sleds 2% failure is 200 sleds. Group C. It is entirely possible that all 200 sleds from group B are in group c, or 0 from group B. Thus the maximum failure is 5% and the minimum is 2%.

I would bet the overall failure is probably somewhere around 2.75%. Since everyone I know who has bearing failure ended up with oil line failure later as well. Those sleds don't count as 2 or 3 different sleds that failed, they were 1 sled that failed in multiple groups. That doesn't seem egregious when knowing just how failure prone 2 strokes are in general. (if you have owned 10 new 2 stroke sleds in your life, chances are you have seen a motor failure)
Further, if your cat or doo failed, did they give you $500 parts credit and an extra year of warranty while getting you back on the snow within 2 weeks? Kudos to Polaris for stepping up putting out numbers and backing their customers.

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My post earlier was just to be snarky and stir the pot but sarcasm aside, the red sentence has been my observation as well and thus could skew number greatly.


IN response to those holding the SW poll seriously, the amount of people I know with 850's and that aren't on SW is staggering. Everyone single one of them is out riding with zero issues. They aren't on here looking for answers to problems they don't have and thus cannot vote that their sled is running well.


I think that would be the nature of any poll on a forum though. My .02Cents.

My good friend is a service manager for kamatsu , he told me, most manufactures budget on a 10% failure, pol so far is well under that, but look on the bright side of pols failure, they were manufacturing issues that are very easily addressed with a few tweaks on the assembly line, theres nothing wrong with their design.
look at the other brand that's blowing belts like crazy that will eventually will lead to crank failure due to the sudden shock unloading that's caused with blowing belts.

Polaris is publicly traded. They are bound by law to NOT publish false or misleading statements/information. They have absolutely nothing to gain by admitting to a motor problem and then lying about the numbers...they actually have a lot to lose by stating false numbers.

I applaud Polaris for their transparency with this issue...which is a big component of being a quality producer for any company.

gtwitch said:

Go look at the poll! 14%

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You mean the poll on the internet . . .? Ummm hummm. . . . that should be incredibly accurate. . . just cuz its on "duh innernet".

Would be nice if we could see who voted (like most polls). Betcha there are some of the "trolls" - that don't even ride a polaris 850, who voted for an engine failure

There was no such thing as fake news before the internet. Cat and Doo dealers spewing 20 percent failures for the Poo 850 in this area. Claiming in adds "documented". If you cant fly like an eagle may as well slither around like a snake.

850 #s

Okay so Polaris has it's numbers so here are mine. I know 3 guys who got the patriot this year (inlc this guy). One guy's flooded on the second start. Finally got it going then the motor seized up on him. The other guy, a close friend, just rode with us in Canada. We had a great trip until the end when his stalled going into reverse a bunch of times. His sled has about 900 miles on it. Took it home and did compression check. Lost compression down to about 70ish in both cylinders so that motor is shot. Dealer only wants to do the top end but he wants a new motor out of the crate. So.....I'm the last guy standing at 800 miles with no issues yet. so polaris says 1%, 2%, etc... blah blah. My numbers show 67% failure rate. Not good.

KDog4 said:

Okay so Polaris has it's numbers so here are mine. I know 3 guys who got the patriot this year (inlc this guy). One guy's flooded on the second start. Finally got it going then the motor seized up on him. The other guy, a close friend, just rode with us in Canada. We had a great trip until the end when his stalled going into reverse a bunch of times. His sled has about 900 miles on it. Took it home and did compression check. Lost compression down to about 70ish in both cylinders so that motor is shot. Dealer only wants to do the top end but he wants a new motor out of the crate. So.....I'm the last guy standing at 800 miles with no issues yet. so polaris says 1%, 2%, etc... blah blah. My numbers show 67% failure rate. Not good.

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<div>Hmmm, another first poster.....</div>

06redrevx said:

<div>Hmmm, another first poster.....</div>

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Is there a minimum number of posts before someone has credibility?

KDog4 said:

Okay so Polaris has it's numbers so here are mine. I know 3 guys who got the patriot this year (inlc this guy). One guy's flooded on the second start. Finally got it going then the motor seized up on him. The other guy, a close friend, just rode with us in Canada. We had a great trip until the end when his stalled going into reverse a bunch of times. His sled has about 900 miles on it. Took it home and did compression check. Lost compression down to about 70ish in both cylinders so that motor is shot. Dealer only wants to do the top end but he wants a new motor out of the crate. So.....I'm the last guy standing at 800 miles with no issues yet. so polaris says 1%, 2%, etc... blah blah. My numbers show 67% failure rate. Not good.

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Sounds like you are a wealth of mis-information!

KDog4 said:

Okay so Polaris has it's numbers so here are mine. I know 3 guys who got the patriot this year (inlc this guy). One guy's flooded on the second start. Finally got it going then the motor seized up on him. The other guy, a close friend, just rode with us in Canada. We had a great trip until the end when his stalled going into reverse a bunch of times. His sled has about 900 miles on it. Took it home and did compression check. Lost compression down to about 70ish in both cylinders so that motor is shot. Dealer only wants to do the top end but he wants a new motor out of the crate. So.....I'm the last guy standing at 800 miles with no issues yet. so polaris says 1%, 2%, etc... blah blah. My numbers show 67% failure rate. Not good.

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Out of 3 850 only one made it back from the trip last weekend here, also has had three cranks blown earlier here in town and many guys with bogging issues.. Hopefully they are dialed in for 2020 cause i have my sight on a sks 146"

Timbre said:

Have you had any issues with yours yet?

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I have an 800, not an 850.
When these issues are ironed out and I am ready for a new sled, I will be buying a Polaris 850

@Rich07Dragon700 & M8onEdge
You boys don't even have a dog in the fight, yet you both felt compelled to give me a negative rating . . . . real classy!!

yep

first time post but fact. Been polaris all my life. 2000 XCSp, 2005 XC 2007 IQ, 2013 Pro r, 2015 pro s, now 85 SB XCR 850..... No agenda bud, just facts

Timbre refuses to believe a Polaris could seize. You could hit him upside the head with the seized piston or bearing and he’d still demand pictures, VIN, date of delivery, selling dealer and name of your firstborn! And unless you own an 850, then you can’t say one thing about them. Even if you like them. Even if you think you may eventually want to by one.
As for me, I know there’s good and bad with all of them. Things get blown overboard on here, both ways. Over the top great, or pos broken junk.

Timbre said:

You mean the poll on the internet . . .? Ummm hummm. . . . that should be incredibly accurate. . . just cuz its on "duh innernet".

Would be nice if we could see who voted (like most polls). Betcha there are some of the "trolls" - that don't even ride a polaris 850, who voted for an engine failure

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If I could vote for all the ( NON-SNOWEST ) 850's owners that I 100% know went down that pole would be ALOT different.

and then there are the guys that voted ( all good ) and then their sled failed they can't fix their vote without contacting a moderator.

Dan

The pole should have another box ( that you can post 3 leak down test numbers over 900 miles divided by 3...... Or 30 hours divided by 3 )

There will be a considerable amount of 850's that get put to summer storage with junk top-ends only because their owners were to lazy to lazy to order a leak down tester and do the procedure.

And there is one more 850 demon in the closet that Polaris has not considered.

And it's something that I did not include in any of my posts on the ( 850 gone down already ) thread.

Over time, The center crankshaft seals ( WILL ) start to leak a small percentage
And the oil will then seep thru the 2 center seals into either one cylinder or both until the center water pump cavity is reached the top edge of the bottom part of the seal.

What's the big deal you might ask...... A few things.

Imagine the sled sits thru summer in a black enclosed trailer ( north of 120 degrees in the hot sun ) inside that trailer.....think of the thickness of the injector oil at that temp.

1- if it's equal on both sides, the first time you pull the rope it will almost hydro-lock...... And almost bend a rod...... ( what it will do is, oil foul the plugs so will won't start ) and since it doesn't have case drains and if it had them you can't reach them anyways you will struggle to get it started with a box of new plugs.

2- if it favors one seal only......and all water pump shaft cavity oil goes to one side...... The first time you pull the rope ( or hit the electric start ) and the motor spins fast the oil can transfer ( if warm enough ) to the top of the motor and it will hydro-lock and bend the rod.

This is why no 2 stroke motor should be designed with a full center cavity ( that depends on a perfect seal ) from a seal that will most likely never seal 100% of the time.... Seals wear.... And they slowly start to seep.

And then not only did they create a cavity full of oil..... They fill it WAY past the top of the bearing just below the transfer case floor.

Just like they did on the 2018 600 & 800 Axys case..... Bad idea.

The number of hydro-locked motors we are seeing has just started to increase.

And most people have no clue what happened....... ( example ) you gave the sled what you think is a decent pull to start it and the handle gets ripped out of your hand..... ( Well ??? ) what just happened ?

Well maybe it just slipped...... Of it partially hydro locked and then next pull it goes and smokes like crazy for a awhile ( this was classic Polaris 900 Fusion ) and the 850 can do the same thing.

I was not going to mention any of this because I really didn't want Polaris to catch this until after the 2020 sleds were released...... ( just being a capitalist ) but I don't want to see the 2020 model to suffer from one last stupid over site.

I don't want to sound like a know it all...... But Polaris would never have caught this unless It was posted.

We have since figured out a super easy fix to this engineering mishap.

Dan

indydan said:

I was not going to mention any of this because I really didn't want Polaris to catch this until after the 2020 sleds were released...... ( just being a capitalist ) but I don't want to see the 2020 model to suffer from one last stupid over site.

I don't want to sound like a know it all...... But Polaris would never have caught this unless I posted this.

Dan

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Well thank you for looking out for the 2020 customers, and contacting Polaris about something everyone else in the world can’t find, on the only platform for communication directly to polaris that their is.

You sir are a gentleman and a scholar above all others with more tact in your little finger than all of Polaris’s hard working employees combined.

m1kflyingtiger said:

Well thank you for looking out for the 2020 customers, and contacting Polaris about something everyone else in the world can’t find, on the only platform for communication directly to polaris that their is.

You sir are a gentleman and a scholar above all others with more tact in your little finger than all of Polaris’s hard working employees combined.

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I am not sure how to please you with eloquent speaking.

I suppose if I wouldn’t of posted it today you would’ve tomorrow or the next day.

Sorry to get in your way.

Dan

Timbre said:

@Rich07Dragon700 & M8onEdge
You boys don't even have a dog in the fight, yet you both felt compelled to give me a negative rating . . . . real classy!!

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You essentially attacked a first time poster for no reason. His post didn't contain "mis-information". He was referring to the reliability in his riding group. If you weren't such a rabid Polaris defender you would see that calling someone out for sharing his honest experience isn't helpful, doesn't add value and is more or less rude. Hence the negative rating.


You seem to have appointed yourself as the forum police. To point out what should be obvious, those of us who don't own an 850 Patriot but are interested in the model visit a thread like this to gain information for making a good sled purchase. Engine reliability is the number one criteria for me. I spent time talking with the Polaris engineering crew in person last spring. I was positively impressed with the design concepts and since my 800 Axys has been the best, most reliable sled I've owned, I was very interested in the new 850. I'm not any longer until a clearer picture emerges on how big of a problem this is. Best of luck with yours.

One 850 in our group this week, and it has some electrical problems. It kept blowing 10 amp. fuse that feed the ECU. We were able to replace it a few times to get it out of the woods. Of coarse Polaris has never heard of anyone blowing fuses before.

We’ve only seen 1 out of 300 850’s blow fuses in our area.