Does Weight Really Matter?

Jaynelson said:

I'll tell ya who cares about weight..............Yamaha and Cat.

They cared enough to come up with a whole marketing campaign, at a decent expense, centered on how, although their sleds are the heaviest, they gain less snow weight and so forth. Now we're all familiar with those advertising videos, and the results and exact figures have been discussed to death..... BUT:

It shows, without a doubt, that Yamaha and Cat are keen to the fact that weight affects performance, and ultimately sled sales. If that weren't the case, they could save their money and let the products sell themselves.

There ya go, answer in plain site....all you gotta do is open your eyes.

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I do not totally agree with this statement. I believe that weight in some instances can effect a sleds performance, but I believe that it is a brilliant marketing tactic by Poo to illuminate the fact that poo offers the lightest sled out there. I too often fell that guys are stuck on concept of light = better. I for one would rather a sled 40lbs heavier and able to take an awkward drop, or a sturdy hit to the chassis and be able to shrug my shoulders and keep riding rather than have to get towed out of the BC.

The next factor to play on the weight equations is the engine. There is a reason both cat and yami engines are bullet proof.... because they are designed to be. Once again, riding out rather than towed out

I would have to think that the snow weight accumulation vids have more to do marketing fireback than anything

This thread is starting to sound like two guys arguing about who's d**k is bigger

F_ast said:

I do not totally agree with this statement. I believe that weight in some instances can effect a sleds performance, but I believe that it is a brilliant marketing tactic by Poo to illuminate the fact that poo offers the lightest sled out there. I too often fell that guys are stuck on concept of light = better. I for one would rather a sled 40lbs heavier and able to take an awkward drop, or a sturdy hit to the chassis and be able to shrug my shoulders and keep riding rather than have to get towed out of the BC.

The next factor to play on the weight equations is the engine. There is a reason both cat and yami engines are bullet proof.... because they are designed to be. Once again, riding out rather than towed out

I would have to think that the snow weight accumulation vids have more to do marketing fireback than anything

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I don't think there's any evidence showing that the cat chassis is any stronger than a pol for a typical front end hit. People like to attribute that weight disadvantage to strength, but that's not necessarily the case. In my riding group...the opposite has actually been true, and the cats get more damage and more $$ for a front end hit....but perhaps that is not typical. Pol tunnel is flimsier, that's pretty well documented. Anyways, I live in some of the gnarliest mountains that see active sledding anywhere...my pro did 4 yeArs of aggressive riding, and never fell apart or left me stranded....so I don't buy that.

Jaynelson said:

I don't think there's any evidence showing that the cat chassis is any stronger than a pol for a typical front end hit. People like to attribute that weight disadvantage to strength, but that's not necessarily the case. In my riding group...the opposite has actually been true, and the cats get more damage and more $$ for a front end hit....but perhaps that is not typical. Pol tunnel is flimsier, that's pretty well documented. Anyways, I live in some of the gnarliest mountains that see active sledding anywhere...my pro did 4 yeArs of aggressive riding, and never fell apart or left me stranded....so I don't buy that.

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Sorry but actual experience is not allowed in threads like this. And if the cats suffered more damage it was probably because they were going faster. Lol

jrusher said:

Exactly.. I rode my viper 200 km this past weekend conditions were bottomless , we rode trees mainly all other sleds in my group are Xms 163-174s my sled subbed and nose dived on me many times where they would float over same lines and drop offs etc.. It handled alot better than my nytro and apex and feels lighter I'll still take the weight penalty for the extra hp..

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Stock skis SUCK! Get some 7 inch wide skis, they make a HUGE difference.

Jaynelson said:

I don't think there's any evidence showing that the cat chassis is any stronger than a pol for a typical front end hit. People like to attribute that weight disadvantage to strength, but that's not necessarily the case. In my riding group...the opposite has actually been true, and the cats get more damage and more $$ for a front end hit....but perhaps that is not typical. Pol tunnel is flimsier, that's pretty well documented. Anyways, I live in some of the gnarliest mountains that see active sledding anywhere...my pro did 4 yeArs of aggressive riding, and never fell apart or left me stranded....so I don't buy that.

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You are on a Yamaha thread trying to convince us your Poo is not junk. Smacks of desperation I think.

^^^^^ Not Another Day From Mr. Denial ^^^^^

DPG

stingray719 said:

You are on a Yamaha thread trying to convince us your Poo is not junk.

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LMAO

stingray719 said:

You are on a Yamaha thread trying to convince us your Poo is not junk. Smacks of desperation I think.

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Jeez it's just a forum discussion about a hunk of metal and rubber that smells like empty beer cans. You are perceiving "attacks" that aren't even there. I dont understand why you are so invested in this. I paid for ALL of snowest, and I'll use as many forums as I damn well please. Keep your stick on the ice!

I think this thread should read " Does the brand of sled you ride really matter?" Answer NO. Does weight matter 100% don't kid yourself into covering a weight disadvantage by adding horse power, in the end when it takes man power to through the weight around, weight matters big time. Does geometry and setup of the sled matter when we are talking about weights that are within 100lbs, sure does. Yamaha has done a great job utilizing setup and placement of the engine to help hide some of the weight disadvantage.

Jaynelson said:

Jeez it's just a forum discussion about a hunk of metal and rubber that smells like empty beer cans. You are perceiving "attacks" that aren't even there. I dont understand why you are so invested in this. I paid for ALL of snowest, and I'll use as many forums as I damn well please. Keep your stick on the ice!

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No attacks perceived or given, just my view.

Jay's testing and decision. Ok what did you buy after all your testing?

Jaynelson said:

I notice weight the most when getting stuck (and having to get unstuck) in precarious positions. Often your riding partners are stuck somewhere else if you're trying to bust through a technical section on a deep day...and getting yourself unstuck on a lighter sled is notably easier. Also, I like the feel of "light on it's feet" and easily catching some air off small lumps and bumps, and making quick transitions....for that stuff, I can feel the different between full and empty fuel tank.

It really depends how you ride, and where you are willing to make your compromises. Not the only factor for sure....I rode all the brands in the running before purchasing, gave them an honest shake, and went with what felt/worked best for me.

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Jay, Where do you ride and what did you buy???

I just know when people find out that I ride a Nytro their first thought is this guy can't ride. I've been told this several times. Before I was into snowmobiling I rode Mountain Bike. Weight is a big deal with them too. People make a big deal about oz and lbs. You can spend thousands of dollars just to shave off a lb to a few oz's. How big of a difference does it make if your bike weighs 1 lb less? Really probably not much. I think it's up to the rider. BMX or single speeds weigh less than downhill and full suspension mountain bikes, so does a BMX bike, because it weighs less better for the mountains? The dimensions of the bike are far more important.
The same goes for sleds and everything under the moon. How much weight makes a differences? 1 pound, 2 pounds, 10 pounds, 25 pounds, etc. Is there a specific weight that make your sled perform less than ideal? Some people say they notice 15lbs and other can't. So what is your magical number and is there one? Does it matter where the weight is added, some say it does?
When I first started riding snowmobiles I was very tired by the end of the day. The following day I spent recovering. It's not like that anymore. I think when my riding skills improved I didn't us as much man force to move my sled but let the sled do the work. However, I did make improvements to my sled over the years. The biggest for handling was the skinz 37" front suspension. I have it setup where I like it and it's hard to ride other Nytro's. I'm sure it will be the same for my Viper.
I ride my friends 2 stroke from time to time and really the only real problem I have with them is power. Poo ride very similar to my Nytro. Doo turn over way easy. I can tell it would be fun once I got use to it. Cat steering is a little difficult for me. It would take time to learn how to ride. Poo is the most under power 2 stroke out there. Doo is the most followed by Cat.
When people ask me what sled should they buy. I say Doo or Poo for natural aspirated and Yam or Cat for boosted. Would anyone run a Doo or Poo on 14lbs of boost with pump gas??? I sure wouldn't but I could be wrong.
Sahen Skinner told me these sled weigh a lot when you get them stuck (down in Chile), referring to their Poo. My 2 cents.

the one thing allot of you don't seem to bring into this is not one of us is the same,rides the same terrain,rides the same style same snow,same:noidea: you get the picture.iam not sure why so many of you seem so hell bent on convincing us that like these sleds, that we shouldn't,because you don't.i enjoy taking my sled where everybody says i cant,i still have fun at the end of the day & that's all that matter.the one thing i have found over all the years i have been riding is no manufacturer will build the perfect sled for you,that's up to you.at the end of the day does weight make a diff,just depends on whether you think it does:face-icon-small-win,would i like my sled lighter,sure would i give up my 4 stroke turbo power,over my dead bodyound:ound:ound:

To add gas to the fire, a friend who rode my modified Viper last Sunday and rides a Ski Doo XP is looking at a new Viper. :wave:

stingray719 said:

Stock skis SUCK! Get some 7 inch wide skis, they make a HUGE difference.

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I have grippers on they seemed to work pretty good all around.. The snow has no base right now up here so that dont help much

jrusher said:

I have grippers on they seemed to work pretty good all around.. The snow has no base right now up here so that dont help much

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135 pound front skid shock spring will help, gets the weight off the skis.

23 lbs and 7 Oz. That is the official amount of weight that makes a difference. About the same as a flat of beer.:face-icon-small-hap

bobgrmkpro said:

Jay, Where do you ride and what did you buy???

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I'm on my 2nd Pro RMK 163....had a 2011 from new and now a 2015. Me and a few friends organized our own "demo day" the last 2 springs where we got a new pol, cat and doo from the dealers and switched around all day. Might be a little tricky to do depending where you live and your relationship with dealers, but the dealers here rock and we are all serious buyers, so it worked out very well. The Yammy dealer is out of the way and out of the mix....or I'm sure we'd one of those too. I ride within an hour or 2 radius from home 99% of the time.

BigFish BC said:

the one thing allot of you don't seem to bring into this is not one of us is the same,rides the same terrain,rides the same style same snow,same:noidea: you get the picture.iam not sure why so many of you seem so hell bent on convincing us that like these sleds, that we shouldn't,because you don't.

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I honestly don't see anyone telling anyone what to ride, what not to ride, or judging anyone's decision. The other thread was started to discuss what Yamaha could change, or do better in future models so that they appealed to more people....which is totally legit and not pot stirring at all. I'll happily tell you 10 things Pol could have done better on my RMK and 10 things I hope they change on the next rendition.....it's just not that big of a deal. I don't see any problem with discussing "want lists" for future models. You guys don't get special kid gloves because you bought the thing. It's a product on the open market....people are free to judge it and discuss it how they wish.

Lucky you guys DON'T have an RMK....cause if you had to hang out in that section of the forum and see the outside scrutiny.....you'd have to see a therapist before lunch!

stingray719 said:

To add gas to the fire, a friend who rode my modified Viper last Sunday and rides a Ski Doo XP is looking at a new Viper. :wave:

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He must like pigs :face-icon-small-hap