Alternative to cheap aluminum rivets that are fully removable?

Dogmeat · Aug 21, 2009

Ok, I am sick of cheap *** ****ty aluminum rivets.

Seriousy, the only reason this method of fastening is used is because it's dirt cheap.

They are IMPOSSIBLE to get out with a drill. You can't grab onto the other end because 1/2 of them are completley out of reach, so they just spin.

I'm trying to replace the plastic on my sled right now and I won't be able to get the stupid rivet cut-offs until the motor gets pulled again, which will hopefully be a long time from now.

I am _SICK_ of screwing with rivets, so when I go to put the plastic on this time, I am not wanting to use rivets.

What is an alternative to rivets that will actually work, be fully removable?

I seriously don't care if they're $5.00 a peice, I'm sick of screwing with rivets.

up-high · Aug 21, 2009

Have you tried a sharp chisel?

AKSNOWRIDER · Aug 21, 2009

hey dog, I dont use a drill to remove rivits...especially on plastic...I use an airhammer with a really wide sharp blade...just lay it flat on the aluminum(or plastic with practice) and boom..cuts the head or tail right off..once it is all apart I go thru and use a pin punch to knock out any peices that didnt fall out..very fast, very easy..and it doesnt keep opening the hole diameter up everytime you undo it...

Dogmeat · Aug 21, 2009

AKSNOWRIDER said:
hey dog, I dont use a drill to remove rivits...especially on plastic...I use an airhammer with a really wide sharp blade...just lay it flat on the aluminum(or plastic with practice) and boom..cuts the head or tail right off..once it is all apart I go thru and use a pin punch to knock out any peices that didnt fall out..very fast, very easy..and it doesnt keep opening the hole diameter up everytime you undo it...

I guess it's about time I broke down and bought some air tools I guess *shrug*

Wade · Aug 21, 2009

I used a pair of vise grips (long nose) with a sharp point, and clamped onto the lip of the rivet, and drilled them out. If it spins, I just drill at an angle, with a smaller drill bit, and the pop the head off, using a small punch. And there aluminum, a sharp wood chisel works pretty well sometimes.

Dogmeat · Aug 21, 2009

Well, removing them is one thing, but

what to use in place of rivets so as to never have to use them again?

m8magicandmystery · Aug 21, 2009

large round head self tappers...often called floorboard screws..or rivnut the threaded slugs in and use small bolts...but sometimes the rivnuts loosen..

julio · Aug 22, 2009

ditto on the above, arctic cat was useing screws on the 1ms, may still, I thought that was the best as you could remove pieces and reinstall with a torxs. I guess the fact that I had to do that so much is why I am not on a cat anymore. ha ha

RKANYZ · Aug 22, 2009

Dogmeat said:
Well, removing them is one thing, but

what to use in place of rivets so as to never have to use them again?

nuts and bolts?

use a bigger drill bit on the rivets. when you use the correct size it will drill out a larger portion of the head that will seperate from the shank of the rivet. then you just pull out the rivet from the back side.

minet · Aug 22, 2009

knock the mandrel out first with a small punch then drilll ,, 100X easier

mountainhorse · Aug 22, 2009

The only other option that I see is using "Rivnut" inserts in areas where the backside is not accessable.
Description:
http://www.rivet-nut.com/Rivnut.asp
Sources:
http://mdmetric.com/prod/rivetnuttool/rivetnuttool.htm
http://www.daggertools.com/m5_view_item.html?m5:item=DT1440
http://www.perlanesales.com/rivnut_installation_systems.php
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/to/rivnuttools.html
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160351351141
http://www.eairtool1.com/servlet/the-1161/Pneumatic-Skin-Pull-Tool/Detail
http://www.cardinalcomponents.com/PDF/C845tooloperation.pdf

Although the plyers-type tools are handy... the "ramp" style in the first link puts the best squeeze on the rivets and makes them more spinout resistant.

I'd say use the knurled type riv nuts if you are going with them. They have more spinout resistance.

http://www.rivet-nut.com/Rivnut.asp
http://www.mcmaster.com/#rivet-nuts/=3atyud

Steel screws into aluminum are a problem in anything that vibrates... especially in plastic were you cant really tighten them down. How many people have had the floorboards on their aluminum trailer come loose that were held in with floorboards screws.

Keep us posted.

RMK7SledHead · Aug 22, 2009

rivnuts will probably work, but they can spin pretty easily, ESPECIALLY if you don't have a lot of material that they're sunk into. I never used them on aluminum, only on carbon that was over .100" thick, and usually I bonded them in too, so they were seriously structural.

You could use structural "cherry-max" rivets...they ain't cheap though.
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/hapages/cherrymax.php

You sure you can't get to the back side? If you can (even with a little work) use solid rivets and a bucking bar.

I guess none of my suggestions are "easily removable", but they're by far the most structurally sound you'll find.

mountainhorse · Aug 22, 2009

Like RMK7... said, the Cherrymax rivets and bucked "aircraft" rivets are great for structural fastening like tunnel installs and bulkhead work. But they would not be great on plastic Panel installs or other low load applications.

The knurled Rivuts... if installed with the PROPER tool that really squeezes them down are pretty dang hard to spin... you DO have to pay close attention to the drill size reqired and use that size ONLY.

Audi, Mercedes, Ducati, Porsche, Gulfstream, Boeing, Lockeheed etc use Rivnuts on aluminum without issue... but again, they are using the proper tools to install them... not just a nut and bolt and some elbow grease.

Dogmeat · Aug 22, 2009

Eh ..

I guess I'll just duct tape a 1/4" silicon hose to the shop vac and try to suck the rivet ends out that are under the motor *shrug*

got everything that I need to have torn off it ... just gotta wait on parts now.

Should have it all ready to go waaaaaaaaaay way way way way before the first snow even hits this winter

This could be bad though, if I get it done before first snow, and Derek is still selling turbos installed for $5600 ...

skibreeze · Aug 22, 2009

minet said:
knock the mandrel out first with a small punch then drilll ,, 100X easier

Ding, ding, ding, we have a winner!!!!!!!!!!!!!

troweller · Aug 22, 2009

grinder or cut-off wheel, along with center punch and drill

Ten-Zing · Aug 22, 2009

The first thing that came to my mind was also the old Arctic Cat ZR way also. Which is basically they used self tapping sheet metal screws. You can buy a bag at any hardware store for dirt cheap. Just zip one into the stock 3/16" hole and see how well it holds. It actually works pretty well for zipping in and out.

Nikolai · Aug 22, 2009

Steel rivnuts works great. I bought my rivnut puller from Fastenal for $110 and it came with 3 mandrels (8-32, 10-32, and 10-24). The rivnuts themselves are cheap.

LRD · Aug 23, 2009

This method takes some work the first time, aircraft nut plates or anchor nuts.
They are a small plate with a nut on them, riveted on with two rivets.
The only way I put on a skid plate, can then put it on or take it off in about 5 minutes.

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/hapages/anchornuts.php

PS Aircraft spruce is where to get aluminum, chrome moly, fiberglass, carbon fiber, kevlar, just about anything you can think of for building something or modding.

Good Luck

Alternative to cheap aluminum rivets that are fully removable?

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