apex with 290 kit, quick question

Turblue · Jul 15, 2009

chris79 said:
Shawn
I had simmilar problems on my m8t with a bit of fluctuation it would be 2-3 psi different day to day at the same riding area it was a turbo xs controller. Ryan has a hallman on his nytro and it was always the same day to day. I didn't realize the controller could cause this i thought they were all of simialair quality. Might have to get a couple from Brad for the m8 and the mcx when we head back down to get the apex and nytro.

chris

yah it was a huge pia.....during the day it would be at 14psi then it wiould be pulling 20psi .....never consistant....was thinking just eliminating the boost tee and getting the waste gate set to 16-17psi would be ideal...

Anyone know when gaining elevation how many psi of boost/1000 feet do you lose? for example if your pulling 17psi @4000' at what elevation will it drop to 16psi gauge pressure...

lightening800 · Jul 15, 2009

i have the newest kit on mine also, i just put my boost controller real close to the turbo itself, mounted right on the aluminium cover in the rear, the longer the hoses to the controller the bigger the variation or spikes you will see also. have a few people up here running it this way and are using the turbo smart controller with no problems. Ill try it and let you know in 4 mths

julio · Jul 15, 2009

mcx290

Am I missing something, I dont have a lot of miles on my 290kit (5-600)but once i did get it running it ran flawless. i dont hover over the boost guage, just watch the tack. and it ran right on everywhere all day. Except the day the cheaz-e elec. connector came loose from the control box. The boost would be a little diff. with elevation change but i thought that was supposed to be the case and one of the pluses with the mcx. gas n go
So out of curiousity if you are going to run a manual controller why not go with a different kit. they are typically less coin. julio

TBird · Jul 15, 2009

julio said:
Am I missing something, I dont have a lot of miles on my 290kit (5-600)but once i did get it running it ran flawless. i dont hover over the boost guage, just watch the tack. and it ran right on everywhere all day. Except the day the cheaz-e elec. connector came loose from the control box. The boost would be a little diff. with elevation change but i thought that was supposed to be the case and one of the pluses with the mcx. gas n go
So out of curiousity if you are going to run a manual controller why not go with a different kit. they are typically less coin. julio

I understand what you mean, from the beginning in this thread i thought it was only the hazzle to reprogram the ECU that was the problem, but it seem as not everyone agree that an electronic boost controller is the ticket and they rather adjust the boost manually

Extreme-One · Jul 16, 2009

I'm with Julio on this one, I bought the McX 290 kit so I wouldn't have to mess with race gas and manual control of the boost. If I wanted to do that I would have spent less money on something else. When I first had mine installed I had to make a few adjustments to get the boost down by lengthening the control rod, now that I have it set I let the electric control adjust the boost depending on elevation, works great and in theory I have 290 hp no matter where I ride.

PistonBroke · Jul 16, 2009

considerations.....

Hmm Hmm indeed!

I am considering upgrading my 2006 kit to the new style so I don't have to mess with the boost settings anymore. Kinda spendy at around $1200 for the upgrade though! That's the only thing holding me back. I might just grab a Hallman manual controller as I suspect the Turbosmart one I have isn't as consistent as it could be...

Keep on fellas, great thread!

Turblue · Jul 16, 2009

I think I am also going to go with a Hallman boost controller for my 2006 kit...trying to get at waste gate actuator with the correct bend in the rod to fit the mcx system is starting to give me a brain cramp...the Hallman is a non bleed so should work alot better....

zebiraross · Jul 16, 2009

Ball and spring mbc's are far superior to the bleed type. Thats why I recommended Hallman and Gready Tvvc. I For one you don't have a boost leak, second spool is reached far quicker with out the bleed type because of lack of a boost leak. And the wastegate doesn't open prematurely like it would with the bleed style.

lightening800 · Jul 16, 2009

i just put mine back to stock and im going to try it, one thing i do know is having a tight gap in the plugs .018" made my sled run a little crappy, not as smooth as stock plugs, i regapped them at .025" and all is good.

PistonBroke · Jul 17, 2009

semi-hijack

All righty then, something's been whipping around in my head and I can't make it go away.

Guage pressure, and adding boost at altitude as the new 290 kits are doing. Let's start with this premise - there is of course a limit for a given fuel/boost combination. I've been told that 12psi with 91 octane and head shim is a good pump gas combination.

Now, the MCX guys are saying that you can do this at sea level, and that their actuator builds more than 12psi if you go up in altitude ( I think up to 17 psi - and still on pump fuel!).

I've been going to the average altitude we ride, and zeroing my boost gage with the engine off of course, then going for a few pulls and turning up the boost until I get 12psi gage pressure. Can someone explain to me what's going on here? Is this safe 12psi number gage pressure or absolute pressure?

By zeroing the guage at altitude, I am reading 0 psi when in fact the pressure is lower than that (absolute pressure). So I'm working on gage pressure, is MCX working with absolute pressure? I'm all twisted up like a pretzel!

Thanks in advance

julio · Jul 18, 2009

12 psi

the way it was explaned to me is that you can run 12 at sea level, as you go up the air thins out and you can run higher psi safely with the same fuel. that is the premise of the 290 kit you have 290 from sea level till you turbo cant keep up.

PwdrNut · Jul 19, 2009

The current MCX kits are designed to run at a certain Absolute pressure. So as you rise in elevation, so will the boost gauge pressure rise. You should not have to anything for this.
For an older kit, I'm not sure how adjusting the boost gauge would affect any of this. Because very simply if you go to a higher elevation, the turbo will need to make more boost because of this to maintain the same Absolute pressure and sea level horsepower.

BBNytro · Jul 20, 2009

When you hear the terms "Guage" and "Absolute" in context to turbos and engines. The Boost guage on your handle bars is giving you the "Guage" pressure that the compressor side of the turbo is pushing into the throttle bodies. "Absolute" pressure is the pressure in the cylinder including your boost pressure + Compression Ratio + Atmspheric pressure.

The boost pressure rises when you go up in elevation to compensate for the loss of atmospheric pressure and Oxygen content.

lightening800 · Jul 21, 2009

hey t bird> so if i leave my mcx kit alone [latest 290 kit] i should run around 16-17psi at 7000ft with stock configuration or do i have to tighten the wastgate rod?/ or are they all different?? or do i have to do this in the field and do some good pulls and adjust the rod in altitude so it boosts 17psi??? thanks

TBird · Jul 22, 2009

lightening800 said:
hey t bird> so if i leave my mcx kit alone [latest 290 kit] i should run around 16-17psi at 7000ft with stock configuration or do i have to tighten the wastgate rod?/ or are they all different?? or do i have to do this in the field and do some good pulls and adjust the rod in altitude so it boosts 17psi??? thanks

You can adjust boost whereever, and the altitude compensation will take care of you as altitude changes!
I wouldn't go higher then 16 psi tho, but i want some margin "in case not as good fuel as expected" and even lower if filling up from a small depot.

lightening800 · Jul 22, 2009

TBird said:
You can adjust boost whereever, and the altitude compensation will take care of you as altitude changes!
I wouldn't go higher then 16 psi tho, but i want some margin "in case not as good fuel as expected" and even lower if filling up from a small depot.

im going to mix a bit of race fuel with premium to be sure, dont know what kind of crappy gas comes out of the pumps these days. Or i may just run straight ave gas 100ll and run around 17ish psi in altitude.

Prairie Dog · Jul 22, 2009

Lightening,

I have a Turbo Smart manual controller. riding around home I turned it down cause I really dont need 330hp on the prairies!!!! When we go to Revy, once I got up in elevation (like the clearing at the cabin on Boulder) I'll hold it WOT watching the gauge to check the boost. If it's not at 17lbs I turn the controller until it is........then I don't have to touch it the rest of the trip.

Manual controller is good, set it once and just keep an eye on the gauge during the day.

:beer;

TBird · Jul 22, 2009

Sure, be able to adjust boost manually is better then not be able @ all, but let MCX automatically adjust without your interference is even better!

Washy · Jul 22, 2009

TBird said:
Sure, be able to adjust boost manually is better then not be able @ all, but let MCX automatically adjust without your interference is even better!

If it works, 3 for 3 on the kits that I have had didn't work worth a crap. Maybe worked 1 out or 10 days.

lightening800 · Jul 24, 2009

then i read it sure would be nice to be able to adjust boost for all types of different scenarios like snow cond, etc. geez which way to try.lol wish we had snow.

apex with 290 kit, quick question

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