SnoWest magazine: Yamaha 2017: Everything You Need to Know About the Sidewinder M-TX

christopher · Mar 10, 2016

AKrider said:
It is about weight and the porkers they keep producing is one of the main reasons they are firmly locked in 4th place for sales. Mountain sleds are supposed to be light and agile. Getting stuck and having to lift them out of a hole, riding aggressively, and being able to float over the snow all require light weight. The Sidewinder MT-X is just a lake racer hyper sled with a long track. It breaks no new ground and will only appeal to a very small segment of the market which has already been served with the 1100T and the turbo'd Vipers.

Well, as far as I can see its like this.
Yamaha Corporate, (and I suppose everyone who owns stock in that company), rather obviously DISAGREES with your revelatory insight. As does every person who has recently bought a new Yamaha and all the guys that are ordering new Turbo Sidewinders right now.

There is more to mountain snowmobiling that just having the lightest, most fragile, easily broken, shortest engine life sled money can buy.

For me, I rather like the idea of a bone stock full warranty factory boosted 204HP Turbo Sindewinder.

In your world its not possible to take out a Nytro or a Viper and have a good time. In mine, I have been doing it for 7 seasons now and LOVING it. And will no doubt be riding Yamaha next season again.

K45 · Mar 13, 2016

christopher said:
Well, as far as I can see its like this.
Yamaha Corporate, (and I suppose everyone who owns stock in that company), rather obviously DISAGREES with your revelatory insight. As does every person who has recently bought a new Yamaha and all the guys that are ordering new Turbo Sidewinders right now.

There is more to mountain snowmobiling that just having the lightest, most fragile, easily broken, shortest engine life sled money can buy.

For me, I rather like the idea of a bone stock full warranty factory boosted 204HP Turbo Sindewinder.

In your world its not possible to take out a Nytro or a Viper and have a good time. In mine, I have been doing it for 7 seasons now and LOVING it. And will no doubt be riding Yamaha next season again.

Give it a rest already if you actually believed that you would not have ordered 2 new skidoo,s

Also Tell that to my Yamaha/cat dealer, I asked him how many Vipers he sold last winter - he sold one. Also they never really sold any cats either until they put them for sale for dirt cheap recently

Trail sleds yes the new Sidewinder should sell. I like the new Sidewinder but there is no way that I can see that it will out perform a properly set up turbo viper. I'm pretty sure the 1100 cat stock turbo was very limited on how much HP it could make before the turbo reached its limit. 180 - 190 hp is not that great on a viper. Crank it up and goodbye warranty.

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0neoldfart · Mar 13, 2016

We don't ride dyno's...

K45 said:
Give it a rest already if you actually believed that you would not have ordered 2 new skidoo,s

Also Tell that to my Yamaha/cat dealer, I asked him how many Vipers he sold last winter - he sold one. Also they never really sold any cats either until they put them for sale for dirt cheap recently

Trail sleds yes the new Sidewinder should sell. I like the new Sidewinder but there is no way that I can see that it will out perform a properly set up turbo viper. I'm pretty sure the 1100 cat stock turbo was very limited on how much HP it could make before the turbo reached its limit. 180 - 190 hp is not that great on a viper. Crank it up and goodbye warranty.

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A couple pulls on a dyno mean little in real world riding. For example, there are SEVERAL simple reflashes (tunes) offered for the 1100 turbo Suzuki, and while they offer increases in power over stock, real world riding dictates that charge temps will increase, and the IHI turbo used on that engine would run out of steam at higher boost levels (the compressor was simply too small). This is why companies like Evolution Powersports did so well with the 1100T with their "big chute" and "super chute" turbo upgrades, as well as WTA intercooler kits. It has been mentioned that the IHI turbo on the Yamaha has zero lag, which would indicate to me that the compressor is quite small. It isn't unreasonable to think that this engine will put out 220-230 hp consistently at elevation with a tune, but to achieve bigger numbers will require compressor replacement, higher flow fuel pump and injectors. Yes, there will be aftermarket companies claiming 250-260 hp out of a simple reflash, but it won't sustain it for long at elevation due to charge temps and physical size limits of the stock turbo. Let's face it, a turbo is a centrifugal pump, and all pumps can reach a point of cavitation, and a physical limit where they simply are inefficient.
The aftermarket will have a lot of fun playing with this engine, as it's lower compression will make higher hp numbers attainable without breaking the bank, expect to see cheap horsepower similar to the gains that were attainable on the 1100T Suzuki.

couch · Mar 15, 2016

christopher said:
There is more to mountain snowmobiling that just having the lightest, most fragile, easily broken, shortest engine life sled money can buy.

I've ridden my pro much harder than I ever did my Nytro (and reached more difficult lines) and so far only thing I busted was the carbon fibre back bumper when it jammed a tree .... a $5 piece of maple dowel and two bolts and I'm back in business.
Sure the engine likely will not be as durable as the 4S but so far its cost me less that the nytro's slides & ball joints. I would like to try a Sidewinder but at MSRP of $19+ Cdn I think not considering I can pick up new HO 16 Pros for $12 a pop ... $7k covers a lot of gas & travel.

Weight is an issue and when Yamaha finally addresses it then it has a great chance of being competitive in the mtn market.

Motorbreath_ · Mar 15, 2016

christopher said:
As does every person who has recently bought a new Yamaha

I can honestly say I probably won't buy another Yamaha unless they lose a decent amount of weight. I am so tired after riding this thing.. (MTX 153 190 turbo)

I LOVE the power.. but the weight does get old pretty quick.

I'll probably end up keeping this sled and buying a two stroke for a second sled.. but huge things are going to need to happen for me to buy another 4 stroke.

christopher · Mar 15, 2016

K45 said:
Give it a rest already if you actually believed that you would not have ordered 2 new skidoo,s

Nice try there Buckwheat.
But getting a pair of 2 smokes has nothing at all to do with selling off all my Yamaha's.

Rather, it has everything to do with my doing a BETTER job here on the forums as I have ZERO personal experience with 2-Smokes and this seemed like the time for me to finally cross over that bridge and gain some insight using what I think will likely be the best most reliable 2-smoke on the market in a very long time.

Shattered1 · Mar 16, 2016

couch said:
I've ridden my pro much harder than I ever did my Nytro (and reached more difficult lines) and so far only thing I busted was the carbon fibre back bumper when it jammed a tree .... a $5 piece of maple dowel and two bolts and I'm back in business.
Sure the engine likely will not be as durable as the 4S but so far its cost me less that the nytro's slides & ball joints. I would like to try a Sidewinder but at MSRP of $19+ Cdn I think not considering I can pick up new HO 16 Pros for $12 a pop ... $7k covers a lot of gas & travel.

Weight is an issue and when Yamaha finally addresses it then it has a great chance of being competitive in the mtn market.

You need to ride that Nytro harder then.

ntm_08 · Mar 16, 2016

christopher said:
Nice try there Buckwheat.
But getting a pair of 2 smokes has nothing at all to do with selling off all my Yamaha's.

Rather, it has everything to do with my doing a BETTER job here on the forums as I have ZERO personal experience with 2-Smokes and this seemed like the time for me to finally cross over that bridge and gain some insight using what I think will likely be the best most reliable 2-smoke on the market in a very long time.

Why is there no Sidewinder only option on this site? The new Doo got it. Hmmm :juggle:

christopher · Mar 16, 2016

ntm_08 said:
Why is there no Sidewinder only option on this site? The new Doo got it. Hmmm :juggle:

Because the SideWinder is a VIPER.
I created a new Forum for the Doo because is was a New Engine AND and new 4th Gen Chassis.

If our Yamaha faithful would prefer me to break the Viper forum up into Normally Aspirated and Turbo, I can certainly do it.
But given how little traffic we have in total for the Vipers, it just didn't seem like it needed to be done.

ntm_08 · Mar 16, 2016

christopher said:
Because the SideWinder is a VIPER.
I created a new Forum for the Doo because is was a New Engine AND and new 4th Gen Chassis.

If our Yamaha faithful would prefer me to break the Viper forum up into Normally Aspirated and Turbo, I can certainly do it.
But given how little traffic we have in total for the Vipers, it just didn't seem like it needed to be done.

I actually agree 100%

M5- · Mar 18, 2016

christopher said:
Nice try there Buckwheat.
But getting a pair of 2 smokes has nothing at all to do with selling off all my Yamaha's.

Rather, it has everything to do with my doing a BETTER job here on the forums as I have ZERO personal experience with 2-Smokes and this seemed like the time for me to finally cross over that bridge and gain some insight using what I think will likely be the best most reliable 2-smoke on the market in a very long time.

Let's revisit this after you've spent a few months riding the 2S's and see how many miles you've put on each brand of sled. I'm betting the Doos will be the first choice most days. It'll be interesting at any rate. Know any good crow recipes? LOL.

M5

K45 · Mar 18, 2016

christopher;Nice try there Buckwheat. But getting a pair of 2 smokes has nothing at all to do with selling off all my Yamaha's. Rather said:
Since we are calling names now:
Nice story Dumbass. Keep telling that to yourself.

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CATDIESELPOWER · Mar 18, 2016

::QUOTE=K45;3946862]Since we are calling names now:
Nice story Dumbass. Keep telling that to yourself.

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Wow, this should be interesting!!

op2:

Motorbreath_ · Mar 18, 2016

christopher said:
But getting a pair of 2 smokes has nothing at all to do with selling off all my Yamaha's.

What are you getting?

You may not believe it now, but you will fall in love with the Doo.. if that is what you are getting.

christopher · Mar 21, 2016

M5- said:
Let's revisit this after you've spent a few months riding the 2S's and see how many miles you've put on each brand of sled. I'm betting the Doos will be the first choice most days. It'll be interesting at any rate. Know any good crow recipes? LOL.

M5

Fare Enough!

christopher · Mar 21, 2016

K45 said:
Since we are calling names now:
Nice story Dumbass. Keep telling that to yourself.

Really?
So your calling me a LIAR.
And telling the world that I am NOT doing exactly what I am doing?
Just for kicks and grins.
Mind if I ask where the heck your getting your inside intel on what I am doing and why I am doing it.?

christopher · Mar 21, 2016

Motorbreath_ said:
What are you getting?

You may not believe it now, but you will fall in love with the Doo.. if that is what you are getting.

I plan on ordering a pair of the new 2017 850 Doos.
For 7 years I have taken crap from the other guys at the office over being the ONLY guy that rides a 4 stroke.

I am not in the least bit a technical tree rider.
I absolutely LOVE riding my Yamahas (5 of them) in the wide open spaces where I can enjoy all the power that a boosted sled has to offer.

Perhaps I will fall in love with riding in the trees at 53, but to be honest, I doubt it.

My guess is I will upgrade my current Viper to the new Sidewinder, get a new 850 and slap a turbo on it as well. Then, riding them both side by side, find out how the other half lives.

tar · Mar 21, 2016

christopher said:
When is everyone going to finally figure it out

ITS NOT ABOUT THE WEIGHT!
Yamaha is not on a weight loss diet!

That is CLEARLY not their goal with their sled line. They appear to be FAR more interested in
Durability
Longevity
Power
Reliability
Endurance
Quality
Technology
Efficiently
Ect..

Yamaha has let all of us know they will let the 2 Smokers chase after weight and sacrifice EVERYTHING else on that alter in pursuit of it.

I told my self that same thing but after riding in the trees the weight just kicks my old butt. I could ride my M1000 all day and not get this worn out.
The power is awsome the viper runs and sounds so good but it's the weight.
I'll be going back to Polaris next year. I will sell my viper or keep it for trail riding.
I gave the viper a try but its boils down to the weight, probably not going back to a four stroke till they make it lite weight.
Tar.

CATDIESELPOWER · Mar 21, 2016

Why the bad rep Chris?

christopher · Mar 22, 2016

CATDIESELPOWER said:
Why the bad rep Chris?

CATDIESELPOWER said:
Nice story Dumbass. Keep telling that to yourself.

Seemed like a good reason to let you know I disagreed with your comment.

SnoWest magazine: Yamaha 2017: Everything You Need to Know About the Sidewinder M-TX

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