Yea there not as great as everyone thinks they are. I left one on my truck for about 2 minutes burned it right out. all hot and swollen.
New idea for battery replacement save weight
- Thread starter Barcode
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Yea there not as great as everyone thinks they are. I left one on my truck for about 2 minutes burned it right out. all hot and swollen.
Hey Barcode:
I'm curious if you ever put a multimeter to the RC battery when starting at cold temperatures. I'm trying to figure out how this would work best with the Li-Ion battery i use in my Nytro. I know that voltage drops off on Li-Ion batteries when cold. If the battery charges the capacitor, I would expect the start voltage would be low....because battery voltage is low....and it would crank slow..but not sure.
The reason I ask is that I've been using a similar setup using a small Li-Ion battery in the sled and I pack a 12 cell Li-Ion (2.5lbs) which I keep indoors overnight. In the morning I have a quick connector and plug it in parallel to the sled battery and it starts perfect every time....down to -30c
Obviously the down side is packing a small battery, but it's 100% reliable at any temperature!!
The one annoying side effect I've found with this setup is that the really cold Li-Ion battery in the sled (below -20c) has such a low voltage for start it won't even start the motor warm after I've used the pack battery to get everything running. However if I let the sled sit and the engine heat warms the Li-ion sled battery...all is good.
I'm really interested in the ultra capacitor setup because it should be a big step forward. The big question for me is what kind of battery to you pair it with.
Thanks
OTM
I'm curious if you ever put a multimeter to the RC battery when starting at cold temperatures. I'm trying to figure out how this would work best with the Li-Ion battery i use in my Nytro. I know that voltage drops off on Li-Ion batteries when cold. If the battery charges the capacitor, I would expect the start voltage would be low....because battery voltage is low....and it would crank slow..but not sure.
The reason I ask is that I've been using a similar setup using a small Li-Ion battery in the sled and I pack a 12 cell Li-Ion (2.5lbs) which I keep indoors overnight. In the morning I have a quick connector and plug it in parallel to the sled battery and it starts perfect every time....down to -30c
Obviously the down side is packing a small battery, but it's 100% reliable at any temperature!!
The one annoying side effect I've found with this setup is that the really cold Li-Ion battery in the sled (below -20c) has such a low voltage for start it won't even start the motor warm after I've used the pack battery to get everything running. However if I let the sled sit and the engine heat warms the Li-ion sled battery...all is good.
I'm really interested in the ultra capacitor setup because it should be a big step forward. The big question for me is what kind of battery to you pair it with.
Thanks
OTM
Why would you even need the battery pack at all?
Just pull the rope for the first start of the day and good to go from then on, like the BRP set up.
Of course it looks like the BRP set up doesnt even have a starter motor, just uses the magneto to turn the engine over....at least thats what I have been able to pick up so far.
Just pull the rope for the first start of the day and good to go from then on, like the BRP set up.
Of course it looks like the BRP set up doesnt even have a starter motor, just uses the magneto to turn the engine over....at least thats what I have been able to pick up so far.
So far what Ive found out is the Ultacap pac should work with any battery. The battery is there just to feed the ultra cap voltage. As the Ultacaps charge pretty much instantly. The hobby battery was used because it was what I found others using on small 4cl cars. My next set up will be using a small 2.4Ah AGM battery. The reason for the AGM as they can be placed in any direction and work relatively well in cold(as well as a conventional lead acid).
With the Ultacap and hobby battery I've yet to see any slow or sluggish start cranking.
Now the Doo set up is pretty trick. But well need a new magneto and some new ECU programming to make it work on other sleds.
IT looks to me that Doos system uses the Ultacpas to turn the magneto to top dead centre and then the ECU fires one cylinder to start the motor.
Not ne technology by any means. Most cars with the stop start feature pretty much do the exact same thing but with the alternator
Is this a set and forget type of thing? Meaning its wired to the sled correct? The sled charges the battery constantly? What is the information on blowing up and starting a fire?
Cool idea basically the capacitor overcomes the sluggish battery on cold starts, then the CAP regulates perfect voltage while running.
The Hobby battery I'm using is much safer then the other ones that you read about catching fire. But you can substitute what ever battery your comfortable with.
Does the UC discharge the battery when it's stored? Are you disconnecting the battery or just leaving it all plugged all the time?
It shouldn't. We disconnect the battery when were not using the sled just in case.
That is my concern with the 23mA draw it will probably run the battery down to nothing in short order if left connected. That is my worry so its not a set it and forget. I was going to pair with a lightweight lithium that let me down just because it didn't have enough grunt in -13F this winter. It turned it over but needed more grunt, that CAP is perfect for that.
Ive seen others on youtube that have left it connected for weeks with out a worry. But since we sporadically get to go riding. And I dont want to take a chance getting up late Friday night to the sleds to find a dead battery. I have installed a easy disconnect. Takes two sec to do.
Now that being said, We have discovered that the hobby battery stopped woking. Last weekend, after a full weekend of use it just didn't have enough to fire the sled. We put the voltmeter on it read 13.1v but what we've read now is the hobby batteries have a special balancing program but into the hobby battery charges. So from what I can figure, the sleds charging system does not. So the hobby battery is pooched. Its a bit swollen and I believe it is now toast. But it was fun experimenting with it. I have now a small Interstate AGM in its place. Its working perfect. Plus it doesn't need any special balancing when its getting charged on the sled.
This is the battery Ill be ordering for the other sled.
http://saskbattery.com/ecommerce_109.htm
Now that being said, We have discovered that the hobby battery stopped woking. Last weekend, after a full weekend of use it just didn't have enough to fire the sled. We put the voltmeter on it read 13.1v but what we've read now is the hobby batteries have a special balancing program but into the hobby battery charges. So from what I can figure, the sleds charging system does not. So the hobby battery is pooched. Its a bit swollen and I believe it is now toast. But it was fun experimenting with it. I have now a small Interstate AGM in its place. Its working perfect. Plus it doesn't need any special balancing when its getting charged on the sled.
This is the battery Ill be ordering for the other sled.
http://saskbattery.com/ecommerce_109.htm
Great follow up. I didn't think the hobby battery would hold up either. The new AGM looks like a more durable option. I think I am going to try with my Shorie lithium connect the pack and see how long it takes to wear down the battery just from the leakage of the CAP in my garage. Did you run across any other contenders for a UC?
There are two Manufactures that make a pre built module.(that I know of) Eaton(the one I'm using) and Maxwell. But if you want to shop around there are quite a few "pre" built units from CDSwell and others on eBay but they are kinda exposed. No sealed box. They are cheaper but not sure if id be willing to get a circuit board wet. I also kinda like the module I'm using. Its long and narrow. I never thought about it before but it seems to fit in more places than a square footprint.
I might do the same test over the summer. Pull the Ucap and battery and see what the actual drain is over different periods of time.
In the next couple of weeks well be going out again. Im hoping to set up just the Ucap on our 2013 Xm summit. and see how it goes.
I might do the same test over the summer. Pull the Ucap and battery and see what the actual drain is over different periods of time.
In the next couple of weeks well be going out again. Im hoping to set up just the Ucap on our 2013 Xm summit. and see how it goes.
Very helpful thanks barcode! i will go with eaton unit as well, get that extra 7 F over the maxwell unit.
Update on the Ultra capacitor/Super capacitor.
Ill just call them the Ucap for short.
This test is being done on a 2013 Skidoo Summit. With e start.
Has the stock AGM Doo battery in there. Just in case if anyone was wondering.
The Ucap alone would not start the motor on a cold start. Ucap was charged to 12.3V from the sleds battery, but started no problem with both in parallel.
After about 90 sec of charging(from the magneto) the cap was at 14.5v Unhooked the AGM battery. Sled started just fine with just the Ucap
The Ucap also started the sled 4 times in a row and on the 5th it petered out. But once charged again with motor running took only 60sec to fully charge the Ucap back up to 14.8v
Once the motor stopped the Ucap’s charge was 14.76V so lets say 14.7v
We let the sled sit for 1 hour with just the Ucap on. From Fully charged is was down to 14.05v sled started just fine.
We let it set next for 2 hours with just the Ucap. From Fully charged is was down to 14.28v sled started just fine.
So it seems that a charge of 12.3v in the Ucap is not enough to get to turn over the motor. But 14+V is.
Well keep testing, but two hours seems pretty decent each Ucap does have a mA leaking listing. Im just not sure how or what formula to use to mathematically figure it out. Real world seems to be working for us right now.
Cheers
Allan
https://youtu.be/o78yv12k2Qw
https://youtu.be/zc6nDQ1MQEk
Ill just call them the Ucap for short.
This test is being done on a 2013 Skidoo Summit. With e start.
Has the stock AGM Doo battery in there. Just in case if anyone was wondering.
The Ucap alone would not start the motor on a cold start. Ucap was charged to 12.3V from the sleds battery, but started no problem with both in parallel.
After about 90 sec of charging(from the magneto) the cap was at 14.5v Unhooked the AGM battery. Sled started just fine with just the Ucap
The Ucap also started the sled 4 times in a row and on the 5th it petered out. But once charged again with motor running took only 60sec to fully charge the Ucap back up to 14.8v
Once the motor stopped the Ucap’s charge was 14.76V so lets say 14.7v
We let the sled sit for 1 hour with just the Ucap on. From Fully charged is was down to 14.05v sled started just fine.
We let it set next for 2 hours with just the Ucap. From Fully charged is was down to 14.28v sled started just fine.
So it seems that a charge of 12.3v in the Ucap is not enough to get to turn over the motor. But 14+V is.
Well keep testing, but two hours seems pretty decent each Ucap does have a mA leaking listing. Im just not sure how or what formula to use to mathematically figure it out. Real world seems to be working for us right now.
Cheers
Allan
https://youtu.be/o78yv12k2Qw
https://youtu.be/zc6nDQ1MQEk
Another update.
So after the last start last night. Ucaps were charged to full. Sled sat overnight. about 11 hours, 14.4v this morning and started no problem!! Awesome!!
So in a 2S application this is pretty fantastic. But in the 4S the hybrid system with a small AGM is best.
So after the last start last night. Ucaps were charged to full. Sled sat overnight. about 11 hours, 14.4v this morning and started no problem!! Awesome!!
So in a 2S application this is pretty fantastic. But in the 4S the hybrid system with a small AGM is best.
Well, heres the last report on the system. Our season is done here. Ugh!
We let the Ucap sit for 4 days, it started the sled. Then we let it sit for 5 days. The volts were down to 12.1v just not enough to start the sled. Cold start.
Not bad for what it is. We used a EarthX jump pack to start the sled. All good.
We let the Ucap sit for 4 days, it started the sled. Then we let it sit for 5 days. The volts were down to 12.1v just not enough to start the sled. Cold start.
Not bad for what it is. We used a EarthX jump pack to start the sled. All good.
Great follow up thanks!
heres a link to the set up on our XM
https://www.snowest.com/forum/showthread.php?t=439010
On our Viper were using the Ucap and a light weight earthX battery. With a simple disconnect for the Ucap, so it doesn't drain the battery over time.
https://www.snowest.com/forum/showthread.php?t=439010
On our Viper were using the Ucap and a light weight earthX battery. With a simple disconnect for the Ucap, so it doesn't drain the battery over time.
