TRS Clutching [ PART FOUR ]

roughrider99 · Feb 6, 2018

I've been breaking primary springs every 300 miles, glide washers on just one side and last time glide washers on both sides, anyone else have issues like this? Also ran a 160-300 pink/silver today engagement was harsh but had noted my best track speeds.

What do I look for with witness marks, waiting on alignment took my clutches still get too hot even prior to today's spring I was running 14-285 primary 73g lightning weights 46/32 and 46/34 a few times 140-200 secondary spring

02sedona · Mar 23, 2018

TRS said:
Here is where we ended up this week on a ‘16 Sidekick
125-175 Red/Gray secondary spring
42-32F helix
70g Lightning weights
150-310 Almond/Blue primary
Gates belt
Secondary set at .130” in from the 191 SLP bar.
Pro pulleys
5 days 350+ miles no belt issues.
Gregg is all smiles

Here is a pic of his clutch after 5 days

I have this setup installed in my sled, 2017 155 axys, 156” 280 conquer track, pro gears, bd sidekick, 7t avid Polaris style drivers. Secondary float is .5, 1.25 at front of secondary with slp 191 tool. Still have 1/2 inch of unused primary at the top. Is this normal? I marked my clutches with a marker before today’s ride. Snow was wintery but rain affected in a lot of spots with pure powder in some zones. Pulled 8300 rpm fairly consistently when pinned to the bar going uphill. Belt heat was still up there with a fresh and cleaned gates carbon belt

Spaarky · Mar 23, 2018

Was the 7300 correct or a typo. I would say the only thing possibly off on that set up is the weight might be a tick heavy for most that gentleman runs a long Rod motor. Other than that he can rod on it all day and not miss a beat. His sled is flat naughty.

02sedona · Mar 24, 2018

Spaarky said:
Was the 7300 correct or a typo. I would say the only thing possibly off on that set up is the weight might be a tick heavy for most that gentleman runs a long Rod motor. Other than that he can rod on it all day and not miss a beat. His sled is flat naughty.

The 7300 was a typo. Corrected now, and it was pulling around 8300 most of the day(when i bothered to look down). I saw a couple spikes up to 8400. I do have a set of 68.6 g weights I can install next ride. Snow was funky enough that i didnt want to mess with it too much today, and just get a good base line.

TRS · Mar 24, 2018

02sedona said:
I have this setup installed in my sled, 2017 155 axys, 156” 280 conquer track, pro gears, bd sidekick, 7t avid Polaris style drivers. Secondary float is .5, 1.25 at front of secondary with slp 191 tool. Still have 1/2 inch of unused primary at the top. Is this normal? I marked my clutches with a marker before today’s ride. Snow was wintery but rain affected in a lot of spots with pure powder in some zones. Pulled 8300 rpm fairly consistently when pinned to the bar going uphill. Belt heat was still up there with a fresh and cleaned gates carbon belt

Sounds like your having fun.
The Sidekick works well from 8350- 8500rpm. You will pick up RPM with a hot pipe. Try 3 long pulls back to back.
Couple questions on your float and offset. Are those typos also?
Check your belt deflection there is hidden rpm and shiftout there.

02sedona · Mar 24, 2018

TRS said:
Sounds like your having fun.
The Sidekick works well from 8350- 8500rpm. You will pick up RPM with a hot pipe. Try 3 long pulls back to back.
Couple questions on your float and offset. Are those typos also?
Check your belt deflection there is hidden rpm and shiftout there.

Had a few typos un my post. Guess i was more exhausted from riding then i thought, .05 float on secondary and .125 on the front of the secondary. Clutch faces were all pretty equal as far as temps after a long pull. Was wondering if i should be getting more shift out on my primary?

TRS · Mar 24, 2018

02sedona said:
I have this setup installed in my sled, 2017 155 axys, 156” 280 conquer track, pro gears, bd sidekick, 7t avid Polaris style drivers. Secondary float is .5, 1.25 at front of secondary with slp 191 tool. Still have 1/2 inch of unused primary at the top. Is this normal? I marked my clutches with a marker before today’s ride. Snow was wintery but rain affected in a lot of spots with pure powder in some zones. Pulled 8300 rpm fairly consistently when pinned to the bar going uphill. Belt heat was still up there with a fresh and cleaned gates carbon belt

02sedona said:
Had a few typos un my post. Guess i was more exhausted from riding then i thought, .05 float on secondary and .125 on the front of the secondary. Clutch faces were all pretty equal as far as temps after a long pull. Was wondering if i should be getting more shift out on my primary?

With the lightning weights installed, did you shim your spider for .020-.030” belt to sheave clearance.

02sedona · Mar 24, 2018

It was. 03 on the new belt. Rode 40 miles yesterday, so i should recheck it to be sure.

Edit. Rechecked the belt sheave clearance and it grew to .04 after the first ride. Time to pull it apart again.

S7even · Mar 30, 2018

I've been trying to get this trs setup dialed in on my 17 axys 163x3 boondocker sidekick for a while and can't seem to get it quite right. It feels like it pulls good until the top end and then it feels like it hits a wall and stops pulling. My setup right now is 71.5 gr lightnings, 140-320 primary, 140-200 secondary with 46-32 helix and gates belt. 20/43 gearing. Deflection is good, belt to sheave is good and alignment. Sled is pulling 8300-8400. My old setup with 40-44 and 180-280 secondary pulled way harder on top and I was pulling 5-6 mph more track speed. Elevation is mainly 6-8k. Could you guys tell me where I'm losing my top end from? This setup does back shift really good but I'm considering putting my old secondary setup back in due to how much pull I lost on the top end.

Spaarky · Mar 30, 2018

Did you talk to a gentleman in SD this week by chance?

richracer1 · May 26, 2018

I see some advertising a reverse cut helix in their turbo sleds, such as a 40-46/42-48.

What do you clutching gurus think of this lower to higher angle vs. the higher to lower angle helix.

diamonddave · Jun 8, 2018

richracer1 said:
I see some advertising a reverse cut helix in their turbo sleds, such as a 40-46/42-48.

What do you clutching gurus think of this lower to higher angle vs. the higher to lower angle helix.

Well I am hardly a CVT guru but after having run both set-ups on a T-Pro, I have to say that both can theories can work equally as well in my opinion.

I think all sorts of variables including but not limited to: elevation, rider weight, track length, lug, turbo system, gearing, and many more make this all less than a science and more about individual results.

What you refer to as a "lower to higher angle" helix is often referred to as a Reverse cut or turbo helix. This theory of operation came to light in the early days of 2 stroke turbo's and the principle behind it was to offset turbo lag.

A reverse cut helix prevented the CVT from upshifting in an attempt to offset lag. Then the higher angle allowed for a fast upshift to hold the motor at peak power.

In my testing, a very high secondary spring rate is necessary, but operation and belt life seemed to be outstanding.

Mr. Aaen Olav states that high spring rates are less efficient than lower spring rates.

I am still playing around with Tony's set-up. I ran out of time and snow last year. I'd like to improve on gaining some snappiness of tip in throttle and more pull on the top end, but everything in that middle 80% feels good.

Spaarky · Jun 9, 2018

Guess I don’t understand some of you guys that say TRS. Set up isn’t snappy or doesn’t pull.

Either I don’t know what I am feeling or you guys are off somewhere. Especially on the big end his set up pulls like a freight train.

I would strongly disagree they work equally as well, but again that’s just my opinion.

diamonddave · Jun 29, 2018

Spaarky said:
Guess I don’t understand some of you guys that say TRS. Set up isn’t snappy or doesn’t pull.

Either I don’t know what I am feeling or you guys are off somewhere. Especially on the big end his set up pulls like a freight train.

I would strongly disagree they work equally as well, but again that’s just my opinion.

Honestly I think it has ALOT to do with the elevation differences, air density, and air temp and a completely different turbo system. I was riding and testing 3,000-5,000 feet in wet humid air. You and Tony are riding what 8-10k with Wyoming in much dryer air? That's a big difference.

I have to believe my results have more to do with how the motor is being loaded at the different loads and throttle positions in these much different conditions.

I am sure you have seen guys post that higher elevation set-up's don't work in Alaska. We as tuner's need to always keep an open mind.

The question was can both set-up theories work well with good belt life? Yes, in my riding area with my sleds they can.

Please don't take my findings personal. Like I said, I am still playing around with mine. I'll find the right combination, I always do.

xpspenziv · Oct 28, 2018

It's almost time to keep this going.

Stutz · Nov 6, 2018

What lightning weights for Pro?

I've read all 4 parts, but what I haven't figured out is if I go with the recommended TRS full setup for a Pro with lightning weights (if I can find them), about what gram would I want to start at?

I'm running a '14 Pro with a boondocker 2860 tial kit, 7-8#, 163 2.6, ride mostly in WY.

ez-ryder · Nov 6, 2018

Higher spring rates will hold RPM in return limits upshift. Limiting upshift increases RPM and limits track speed. I am running a 140-220 secondary spring in my turbo with 74.6g weights 165-310 primary and it has long legs. Works boondocking, hill climbing, on the trail. 8-9# boost at 8-10,000'. In my stock Pro I am running a 100-150 secondary spring 59g weights with a 110-290 primary. Same helix in both, 46-32F- 46-34F.

Trs posted that a long time ago.

Stutz · Nov 7, 2018

Any intel on where to find heavier lightning weights these days?

Appears the best alternative is Dan's turbo weights but sounds like guys are needing to run them heavier to dial it in.

TRS · Nov 7, 2018

I should have Lightning style weights shortly.

wellfed777 · Nov 7, 2018

Tony can you hook me up with 850 setup :face-icon-small-hap

hope your doing well man

TRS Clutching [ PART FOUR ]

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