MDS weights

Knox · Jan 22, 2011

i have only had the change to run the mds at about 2200 feet and like i said before my engagement seems a little high and definately a lot harder...i am running the stock yellow white spring....and my front end doesnt hop near as much...was told to try and loosen the bolt that holds the weight in the clutch just a bit? anymore info on this is greatly appreciated........i am scared that i am engaging so hard that i have a higher possibility of breakin another primary spring and i dont like doin that

shredjim · Jan 22, 2011

Knox - Try a different primary spring and make sure you get the nuts tightened correctly on the weight posts - follow above. I used to think my engagement on the stock yellow-white cat spring was harsh. When I installed the MDS weights I also put in a new stock secondary spring (to make sure it was fresh, got 2K miles on sled) and a speedwerx blue-white 120 - 310 primary spring. This spring seems to engage much easier (around 3100) and I get a bit more on the the top too (8010) instead of 7900 at best. As long as I manage my throttle/rpm going in and out of reverse is much better as well.

dunatyk · Jan 22, 2011

I was skeptical at first but after talking with Eric and Steve i pulled the trigger and got them. took a little adjustment to get them were i needed them but after today i have no regrets. I had my wifes sled with me today to compare they are both 2010 M8 153 one is a sno pro and the other is a sno pro LE with Bikeman cans so they are the same sled. After going between the 2 during the day there is no comparison they are worth every PENNY! I will be call Eric on Monday to order another set for my wifes sled. Just waqnt ot say thanks to Eric at the RACINSTATION for taking the time on the phone on here on snowest to answer all of my questions to help me get them dialed in

Frostbite · Jan 23, 2011

It's great to hear how well these weights work again and again. It makes me want to peak on the Polaris side of the house to see if they have figured out that these weights are the bomb.

I have my SLP MTX weights working so well it's hard to make the change. I have the speedwerx 125/340 spring in the primary and in the secondary I have the Skidoo purple secondary spring with a 44/36 helix.

I do have a new primary clutch with the MDS weights and the Polaris 120/340 spring Steve recommended ready to go. I also bought a used 10.4 secondary for my daughters M5 that has a 36 degree helix and an orange spring that I will use with the new primary to give them a try.

It would be fun to swap both back to back on the hill to get a direct comparison.

F7arcticcat · Jan 23, 2011

Frostbite said:
It's great to hear how well these weights work again and again. It makes me want to peak on the Polaris side of the house to see if they have figured out that these weights are the bomb.

I have my SLP MTX weights working so well it's hard to make the change. I have the speedwerx 125/340 spring in the primary and in the secondary I have the Skidoo purple secondary spring with a 44/36 helix.

I do have a new primary clutch with the MDS weights and the Polaris 120/340 spring Steve recommended ready to go. I also bought a used 10.4 secondary for my daughters M5 that has a 36 degree helix and an orange spring that I will use with the new primary to give them a try.

It would be fun to swap both back to back on the hill to get a direct comparison.

Frosty
I would be interested to see if there is much of a difference between the MDS weights and the SLP weights. I'm currently running the SLP weights as well, but it sure is tempting to try these out.
If you could gain 3-5mph for a $250 that is really cheap considering how much it takes to gain that with performance mods, plus it sounds like there are way more benefits than just more power to the track.
Post your results if you do any swapping!

06m7 · Jan 23, 2011

i put a 44/40 today with mds weigths at 1000ft and its way way better then with the stock 36 will have to take a bit of weight out but pulled alot harder. with the 36 i was getting 8250 8350 now getting 7850 8150 will lighten them up a bit should be great after that . really seemed like the belt would slip with 36 .

Flange · Jan 23, 2011

geo said:
Two days now with just the stock secondary and MDS weights. 5000 to 6000ft. 2011 153 M8 std with SLP pipe, SLP airbox addition and PCV. I've got about 38lbs off with add-ons and take-offs and holes and titanium springs and... And, about 250lbs added with rider, gear,tools,belt,water (I lied it's beer) and a snack. Apples to apples eh LOL.

Track speed gains? Yes. Cooler clutching? Yes. Backshift good? Yes. Happy? Yes Yes Yes. I'll be able to drop another 4 or 5 lbs in tools and springs soon LOL.

Some wonder about a multi-angled helix. Steve built multi-angle into his weights, just for our secondary, so no need.

These weights definitly put a smoother power delivery to the track (less spin when angles of the hill change, means you'll go higher).

Yesterday I ran a unfinished logging road from end to end and back. About 22km. Wide open. Lots of air from log and dirt piles covered in 5 feetish of base and 1 to 2 ft of fresh. Speeds from 30 to 70mph and the rpm from 8080 to 8160 (best I can tell cause I had to pay attention to the 15 ft holes on the sides).
Stopped right at the end, opened the hood and panel. Clutches were warm, belt a bit warmer. That's good clutching.

Tried some hills (way less work on the clutches). 40 to 60 footers straight up, saw 40 plus at the bottom but then had to pay attention to the front end (keep it down) and the trees. 60 to 100 footers almost straight up, I'm sure I saw 50mph but then I lost my line ( note to self, DON'T look at the speedo when I'm wide open LOL) and had to back off and side hill out and up. Lucked out and found a line before having to drop back into the creek in a bad spot. Longer hills, I'll have to wait 'till it's a little less avalanchy cause the packed ones aren't a challenge.

Meadow runs about 1/4 mile virgin 70ish but too much snow dust coming on to the speedo to be sure. Back on my track, shut off at 80ish (cause I know thats about it on the 10 and 11's).

Then I said to self, self 'nuff testin' we're done. Blue sky, fresh snow, Let's burn this tank of fuel.

Oh, I also said thanks Steve.

geo

If you are seeing 50mph on that type of hill, then you are doing much better than me. I'd see 40mph tops. Seems to get there quick, but won't go any higher.

shaneo11 · Jan 23, 2011

I had the stock Yellow spring in my primary with the MDS weights and my sled would engage about 4000. I talked to Steve and he suggested the Polaris Black spring. It is a 120-340 spring but it is shorter, so he said it would be more like a 90-310. My engagement is now about 3600-3700 and my finish RPM's are now 7950-8100 where they should be with my SLP single.

FCR112 · Jan 23, 2011

Knox said:
....and my front end doesnt hop near as much...

What do you mean by this Knox? wheelie?

Knox · Jan 23, 2011

yes sir........she doesnt come off the ground near as much

geo · Jan 24, 2011

If your talking in a climb, that`s a good thing. Means the backshift is good.

About the performance gains expected or observed

If you gain 10% (40 to 44mph, 44 to 48.4mph, trackspeed that is), that`s huge (can be attained with MDS weights). Think of 10% in HP. 157hp M8 to 172.7 HP, that`s huge. Ain`t been done yet with just a pipe, but install a SLP pipe kit (8.9 hpclaimed) and PCV on a 10 or 11 M8 and you feel it. Clutch it right( that`s the rub) and you feel it more and maybe see it.

Back to track speed. Any year of stock M8 will break 40mph (very very quickly) on any hill in the interior of BC. Revy, Blue river, Eagles, and on. If your M8 can`t it has an issue. See your dealer, or just set-it up right stock. Heck, most M7`s did it.

Now the difference between 40 and 44 is huge in performance but it`s less than the thickness of pencil on your speedo or flickering numbers on the tiny digital display. If your on a hill that allows you to sit back and view that for a while you should at a higher mph. It`s harder to see the difference from 44 to 47mph but that`s huge too.
If you take a virgin line, tracked line with fresh, cross from fresh to tracked, from tracked to fresh ,crossing line after line, or just following the leader. All those trackspeeds will be different. Compound that with when you glance at the speedo and you should see up to 10 mph difference. That`s even `huger`LOL.

That`s why feel is important when tuning and why many expect more than possible.

Geo

mtn mike on boost · Jan 24, 2011

I figure they are so inundated with phone calls, i would throw this
question out there.....

Is the curve geared towards a stock motor? I spend a lot of
time getting my clutching down and achieving good results (thanks
to the people hear on this forum) but my sled is ported w/a head
and a pipe. Heck, i don't know the power curve of my motor now.
Isn't that going to be pretty important?

I know its got a money back guarantee, but i don't want to be wasting
my time or theirs on a sled that works pretty good already. Just asking:face-icon-small-hap

Thanks
Mike

RACINSTATION · Jan 24, 2011

Yes, the weights are geared for the powercurve of you individual sled.

For instance if you are running a stock 2009 M8 you are targeting 7950 rpm. Ported, maybe 8100-8200. So the stock sled will be pulling a couple more grams of weight than the ported sled to achieve peak horsepower.

When you call with your setup we go over all the variables such as porting and head mods, pipe, can etc. Elevation and snow also plays a role. A guy in Washington can't pull the same weight as a guy in Utah at the same elevation, typically. The west coast gets HEAVY wet snow, where we get lighter fluff that you can cut through easier.

Then, lastly, you may have to fine tune the weights when you get them. I have had a few guys that have to pull a washer out or add a screw to get things going on the money.

kej · Jan 24, 2011

Eric can you get any of the Polaris P1 weights? I've called, but got no response from MDS.

dunatyk · Jan 24, 2011

Mike
I can tell you that they do work. I had do do a little tweeking like Eric stated above but my end result was well worth the money spent. In fact i just ordered another set today from Eric with his apring for my other M8. So with that said thats alot of coin spent on weights but if you compare lets say a tortional setup your really about the same dollars with alot less install time and in my opinion better results. i can actually feel the difference between the two sled and they are identical except color and the MDS weights in the one sled. What do you have to lose? Mds will take them back if you are not satisfied

Frostbite · Jan 24, 2011

I'm curious about a couple things regarding these weights.

First how are the Polaris springs that Steve recommends working out compared to say a Speedwerx H5, Cat or SLP springs?

I hear that this Polaris spring is a bit shorter than the Cat springs and acts more like a 310 total force spring than a 340. In my mind, I would think one would want a real 340 spring so you could add more weight to the clutch weights and make the sled pull even harder. In fact, I have one spring that is a 360 total force spring. If an individual used that spring then you could probably load up the weights like those on a M1000.

Doesn't the theory of the more weight you can pull and still reach your shift speed apply here? Doesn't more weight (within reason) equate into more track speed if you can pull RPM?

mtn mike on boost · Jan 25, 2011

Frostbite said:
I'm curious about a couple things regarding these weights.

First how are the Polaris springs that Steve recommends working out compared to say a Speedwerx H5, Cat or SLP springs?

I hear that this Polaris spring is a bit shorter than the Cat springs and acts more like a 310 total force spring than a 340. In my mind, I would think one would want a real 340 spring so you could add more weight to the clutch weights and make the sled pull even harder. In fact, I have one spring that is a 360 total force spring. If an individual used that spring then you could probably load up the weights like those on a M1000.

Doesn't the theory of the more weight you can pull and still reach your shift speed apply here? Doesn't more weight (within reason) equate into more track speed if you can pull RPM?

not sure if this will mean anything to you but i have a 09 m8 w/ RKT head and port SLP pipe kit Polaris 100-340 primary spring (which i love the engagement) cutler adjustable's and 40/36 helix orange spring w/ shift assist.
anyhow the other weekend we had great snow ( good for loading the sled on a pull ) so i went out w/ a new belt, picked a hill (untracked) and started doing some pulls and watching my rpm and track speed. i started out w/ the weights unloaded and was pulling 8150 (deep wet snow) and 44mph track speeds. then i added a little more weight and repeated and dropped to 7950 rpm but was pulling more track speed, so i tried more weight.....
ended up not dropping any more rpm but continued to gain track speed.
now this sled in wet heavy virgin snow will hit and hold 48 mph on a pull.
if these MDS weights will get me over 50, i am all in

CO 2.0 · Jan 25, 2011

Frostbite said:
I'm curious about a couple things regarding these weights.

First how are the Polaris springs that Steve recommends working out compared to say a Speedwerx H5, Cat or SLP springs?

When I called up and ordered the MDS weights for my '10 M8 he told me the SW H5 125/340 spring I'm using is perfect for these weights and what he recommends with my stock setup.

geo · Jan 25, 2011

Spring finish you pick will determine the total weight. If you play in the top half of your shift mostly it will work good 'cause you can throw the most weight.

The problem there is the engagement you like and low speed responce. With low start rate the heavy weights may be a little doggy and definitely slower backshift in the first half of shift. You may never be there or your sled may be able the pull through it cause your on the flats or low snow.

Oval ice racers (a dying sport) need the best of everything. Fast start, best out of corner acceleration and the best top end pull. They would use high start rates and high finishes to keep the heavy weights within a peak powerband.

For the mountians, If you hill climb mostly you can throw alot of weight and high finish rate and start rate (160-340). This will give high engagement but you will have the best backshift and upshift responce through the whole shift if your throwing heavy weight.
High engagement does not mean jerky start. It can be as smooth as butter, just high rpm. Remember the triples.

If your mostly in the trees at low speeds searching for traction, it's a little easier to find that traction and a little easier on the belt to do that at lower rpm. Unfortunatly that can only be done with low start rates.
So back to low start rate high finsh rate springs. You will always comprimise one end of your shift. Most pick the higher shift range to focus on but then the bottom of the shift (like when your just chewing the last bit at the top of a fresh climb) will suffer and you will drop some r's and mph.

Personally, I pick the start rate I like and pick the lowest finish rate I can to allow me to swing less weight so my responce (back shift and up shift) is everywhere in the shift. That's the balance point in the clutch's everyone seeks.
Lot's of ways to get there, just depends on the engagement you want. That's why there are so many springs out there.

The MDS weight profile and distrbution have finally allowed me to have it all and so easy to get there.

geo

FCR112 · Jan 25, 2011

Don't tell the guys up in Eagle River that Ice ovals are a dying sport, they'll kill you

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