tested RKT torsional kit... interesting results.

MTm7 · Feb 13, 2008

first let me state this...there are a lot of haters out there regarding kelsey. maybe some of them are justified maybe not. there are always two sides to every story. here is mine. for whatever reason kelsey contacted me and asked if i wanted to see what my sled could really run like. obviously i said yes but that i was tapped out monetarily speaking. well long story made short... kelsey's kit shows up at my door FREE OF CHARGE. i dont care who you are thats pretty cool.

well i ran the kit yesterday in 18-36" of FRESH powder. worked great.

the shifting characteristics were fantastic. what i noticed right away was how it upshifted quicker thus snapping the sled up on top of the snow quicker. back shift was better than my other setup but not as noticeable. my other setup actually backshifted quite well. the other thing i noticed was topend(when climbing) pulled better. i didnt stop and check clutch temps... too busy having fun.pulled rpm(and stayed there) no matter if i was in deep snow or on loose snow, hardpack etc. NO INCONSISTENCIES! i know the kit is getting the power to the track now. reason being i saw the highest egt's to date. kinda scared me.

the motor is being loaded more or properly now. i will be keeping this setup on my sled for the duration. very pleased.

it PERFORMED as ADVERTISED.

now to be fair my other setup was quite good. just not as good as the RKT kit. for those who dont have the money my old setup(mtn extremes clutching)is a way good second option. especially considering what the clutching is like from the factory.

i know what some of you guys are thinking.... kelsey gave me the kit therefore i am obligated to give a positive review. not so! i admit i was stressed prior to testing but if it had not performed i would have told kelsey and then the SW peeps. it is what it is... kelsey's products flat out work! i am by no means a mechanical genius but the kit was extremely easy to install. very well built and great machine work.

here is my old setup followed by the RKT kit:

cutler adj. 65gram base weights with the 5/8" screw at the heel
AC gold pri. spring
dalton 45/38-36* helix
m8 org. sec. spring with the adj. at the cover. (this setup is for sale)
046 belt
d&d shift assist

cutler adj. 65gram base weights with the 1/2" screw at the heel
AC gold pri. spring
rkt 34* helix
snopro green torsional sec. spring in the middle hole
046 belt

now this is early testing so i am going to change a few things. i am going to try the stock 68gram arms and the AC org/white in the primary. this is kelsey's recommendation. i wanted to run the gold spring and cutler weights to get a baseline and compare that against the stock arms and org/white. i will report back with the results.

0neoldfart · Feb 13, 2008

When I went looking for better clutching for my M1000 last year (blew a couple belts that I didn't think should have went) - I started thinking about the torsional secondary, and the reduced spring pressure applied to the belt. Doo's RER setup is lighter then the DD reverse gearset, but I believe a lot of the belt issues that Doo has is because of the secondary spring pressure. I decided to try Kelsey's kit (I've used his heads for years) and I was very impressed with the results - which is why I purchased his products for my wife's M8 this year. To make a long story short - both sleds upshifted and backshifted better then stock, and I might add I now have 840 miles on the belt I installed with the secondary kit on the 1000, and the 8 has 500 miles on the stock belt to date, and both look good. Also, neither kit was free or even cheap - at the time I bought them the dollar wasn't close to the U.S. dollar, and every vendor has to add their 30%. Still worth the $$$ IMHO.

Tempest · Feb 13, 2008

RKT Secondary works great. Way faster up shift and back shift. I had to drop from 68 gram to 66 gram to get the same R's. Works great with a Gold Primary and Red/white secondary.

Mountain Doo-OLD · Feb 13, 2008

So Please tell us WHY were you picked out a hundereds to run this Kit of Kelsey's....
We run his kit along with the CPC conversion in others...both compare to each other..so just a reason why would suffice some of us on here...

Also never heard of a secondary making the EGT noticeability rise. I can see loading to some extent- but to make them noticeabiltiy go up...Comom...

MTm7 · Feb 14, 2008

Mountain Doo said:
So Please tell us WHY were you picked out a hundereds to run this Kit of Kelsey's....
We run his kit along with the CPC conversion in others...both compare to each other..so just a reason why would suffice some of us on here...

Also never heard of a secondary making the EGT rise. I can see loading to some extent- but to make them go up...Comom...

are you a little indignant that i was chosen? i dont know why i was chosen... probably because i am a nobody in the clutching world and if i can bolt it on and it performs as advertised it must be the kit and not the "clutching god.":face-icon-small-win or maybe kelsey is just a good guy and wanted to help a poor sledder out. not sure what else to tell you about the egt's... proper loading of the motor makes sense to me but hey your probably a self-appointed genius so you tell me.

dmkhnr · Feb 14, 2008

I have the 38-34 helix, and it does upshift faster than the stocker under all conditions. I have monkey'd with this thing for months now, and have found that is does work, but you have to sacrifice either a little trackspeed, or snappy upshift. (backshift always seems great).
I have settled on the green spring in #1 hole, as opposed to #3, or #4. I've found that when in the tigher position the sled will pull your arms out on the upshift (this does load the motor, obviously higher EGT as commented on above). Throw a mark in a deep powder bowl and take note of your trackspeed. Change the spring to #1 and run an identical line, I see 2-3mph more trackspeed everytime, however my shift is a little lazy and it seems the motor has no load on it as it just runs through the helix.
I've done similar tests with a straight 38 helix, and seen even more trackspeed but it won't hold the R's.
Now the comparison to the stock compression:
The torsion will upshift (backshift is good on both) much faster, however run your tests, and then throw the compression on and make a run. I always see a lag in the shift around the 6k rpm, but always see 1-2 mph higher trackspeed.

This is a tuning mod, in fact I'm not even going to get into the different weights that I've tried with it. I've had it apart so many times that I bent the studs at the top of the helix (that green spring is a bihtc to preload if you forget your tool in the truck, its even hard to do with the tool.)
I have a shift assist sitting in my drawer here, and was going to try it on the compression to see if that has any effect on the shift lag. It's just at this point in the season I'm more interested in riding than tuning so I don't know if I'll get to it anytime soon.
The machining and tooling of this unit is beautiful, you can really tell there was alot of thought and time put into this.

highmark18 · Feb 14, 2008

No complaints here, I have sold quite a few of those kits, and personally use them on all our M's....

Heypal · Feb 14, 2008

I am running the kit in my 06 X-fire 700. Yes, I think the kit works well. However, trail side adjustments are not as easily accomplished as advertised. I found it kind of a bear to get everthing lined up when reinstalling the spring cover. Not to mention the cover is RAZOR sharp on the backside. My thumbs are all cut to h$ll due to spring/position changes.

mtn_extreme · Feb 14, 2008

"The torsion will upshift (backshift is good on both) much faster, however run your tests, and then throw the compression on and make a run. I always see a lag in the shift around the 6k rpm, but always see 1-2 mph higher trackspeed."

Shift assist will take care of that. Try the platinum spring in your compression secondary , should increase another 3 to 4 mph in the climb over the orange.

SANDBAGGER · Feb 14, 2008

I wonder why he never sent Geo a kit to try. I think Geo is a far better and MORE unbiased test subject than say someone who has dumped several k at RKT already. Also I would much rather read a report from a clutching guru or GOD as you said above than a nobody as you describe yourself. Cause I can't remember the last time I heard a free kit like in this situation get a bad review. I wonder when these darn manufacturer's are gonna pick up on this great and more efficient clutching setup to improve performance and reduce production costs.

High Life · Feb 14, 2008

mtn_extreme said:
"The torsion will upshift (backshift is good on both) much faster, however run your tests, and then throw the compression on and make a run. I always see a lag in the shift around the 6k rpm, but always see 1-2 mph higher trackspeed."

Shift assist will take care of that. Try the platinum spring in your compression secondary , should increase another 3 to 4 mph in the climb over the orange.

What advantage does the platinum spring have over the orange? What is the rates on the platinum? I actually have a platinum sitting on the shelf and am running the orange with a 48/36 progressive helix now.

Mountain Doo-OLD · Feb 14, 2008

MTm7 said:
are you a little indignant that i was chose? i dont know why i was chose... probably because i am a nobody in the clutching world and if i can bolt it on and it performs as advertised it must be the kit and not the "clutching god.":face-icon-small-win or maybe kelsey is just a good guy and wanted to help a poor sledder out. not sure what else to tell you about the egt's... proper loading of the motor makes sense to me but hey your probably a self-appointed genuis so you tell me.

MTM7-
Come to wyoming and find out tough guy

Sandbagger-
Your response was all I was trying to convey- some like MT M7 just have to be outlandish/and end up being the one that fails with responses that only demonstraits his ability to well.... I will go no further!

mtn_extreme · Feb 14, 2008

High Life said:
What advantage does the platinum spring have over the orange? What is the rates on the platinum? I actually have a platinum sitting on the shelf and am running the orange with a 48/36 progressive helix now.

The platinum is a little softer than the orange but considerably heavier than the white stock. I will have to go look up the rates. You will have to adjust it to your elevation and setup. It is a spring that the slip point falls into so you can run it right on the edge where it will "just" not slip and have enough grip to hold without "too much" pinch on the belt slowing it down. Result is more track speed in most applications, but you do have to tune it!

This is what Eric at the Racin'station steered me to from his findings. I am still playing with it and getting good results, already more track speed on the pulls.

richardsb014 · Feb 14, 2008

Platinum is a lot softer. 07 manual shows the platinum squeezing 180 pounds at 1 5/8", where as the orange is 280 lbs at 1 5/8". I've heard good things about the platinum, but can't speak personally.

MTm7 · Feb 14, 2008

SANDBAGGER said:
I wonder why he never sent Geo a kit to try. I think Geo is a far better and MORE unbiased test subject than say someone who has dumped several k at RKT already. Also I would much rather read a report from a clutching guru or GOD as you said above than a nobody as you describe yourself. Cause I can't remember the last time I heard a free kit like in this situation get a bad review. I wonder when these darn manufacturer's are gonna pick up on this great and more efficient clutching setup to improve performance and reduce production costs.

several thousand "dumped" at RKT? "dumped" would convey that something is worthless. not the case at all. missed it there. several thousand... missed again. geo giving an ubiased opinion? how do you know he would? sounds like your biased. and again.

the free kit and bad review... plausible or somewhat valid but not in this case... one more miss(oh maybe i should be more lucid in my explanation, i.e., missed the target or wrong). the reading a report from a clutching guru or (g)od nailed it. totally agree. so you were 1 out of 4. i wonder if the sarcasm is coming through....???

MTm7 · Feb 14, 2008

Mountain Doo said:
MTM7-
Come to wyoming and find out tough guy

Sandbagger-
Your response was all I was trying to convey- some like MT M7 just have to be outlandish/and end up being the one that fails with responses that only demonstraits his ability to well.... I will go no further!

what exactly would i be sojourning to wyoming to learn. that you are in fact a genius? holy crap i have never been around a real genius before. i'm there dude.

directions please.

1000cat · Feb 15, 2008

spring

who makes the platinum spring,arctic cat ?? and what do you mean tune it play with the plastic washers take one out or what

dmkhnr · Feb 15, 2008

1000cat said:
who makes the platinum spring,arctic cat ?? and what do you mean tune it play with the plastic washers take one out or what

You'd have to go back to the older helix with the white adjuster. You'd do this anyway if your running MX clutching as a different cut on the helix is recommended.

SANDBAGGER · Feb 15, 2008

SORRY, about the misinterpretation. I mean no dig on RKT motor work or what ever your previous investments were. Top Notch workmanship @ RKT. If you have to ask whether or not GEO would be unbiased, I can definatively say you haven't been around much or not paying much attention to an important source of info. Look him up, you will find out. Super nice guy that always goes the extra mile to help and provide accurate info from FIRST HAND expirience :beer;:beer;

MTm7 · Mar 29, 2008

update

well its been awhile since my last report and needless to say i have several rides on the kit now. i have tried several different things... some worked some didnt. i had some issues with what i thought was the clutch but ended up being my fault. once i got those finally taken care of everything cleared up. here is my last and best(to date) setup: org/white in the primary, cutler adj. weights with 5/8" screw in the heel, cat green sno-pro one hole tighter past center, 046 belt. i did try the xs belt and i thought it pulled harder but i couldnt get the rpms i needed to as i was down to the base weights. i would like to see how it ran(xs belt) with 64.5 grams of weight. this kit likes the org/white better than the cat gold even though they are very close to the same finish rate. i personally dont like the high engagement of the org/wht and am looking for an alternative, i.e., same performance but a lower engagement. initially i thought i had a serious problem with clutch heat but not the case. that was one of the problems that was my fault. once that was fixed the clutches are very acceptable in terms of heat. also i was getting some hunting but when i fixed the aforementioned screw up the hunting has all but stopped.

i have learned a ton about clutching since i got into this sport(3yrs)... that being said in my novice opinion this clutch mod really works as advertised. it did take me some time to get it where it should be(due in large part... im a dumb dumb sometimes). i think it is spot on now and runs really strong.

props to rkt for a quality product that flat works!

also thanks to rkt for giving me the kit and for all the help!!!

tested RKT torsional kit... interesting results.

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