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Letter to the editor in Whistler - SO MAD!

X

x-guy

ACCOUNT CLOSED
Dec 12, 2007
367
65
28
Vancouver, BC
are these honestly the people that we are up against? Is this the norm on the "other side" If so I am going to have to go bash my head against a cement wall a couple dozen times in hopes that I can understand some of the ridiculous facts they are spewing. Maybe we need to implement the cap and trade system here, they can cap their venoumous biased hatred filled filthy mouths, and that should give us a big enough carbon offset to stay sledding for years, I can't even believe a paper would print this!

http://www.piquenewsmagazine.com/pique/index.php?cat=C_LTE&content=Letters+1617
 
N

newtrout

Well-known member
Oct 1, 2001
752
637
93
Central Washington
are these honestly the people that we are up against? Is this the norm on the "other side" If so I am going to have to go bash my head against a cement wall a couple dozen times in hopes that I can understand some of the ridiculous facts they are spewing. Maybe we need to implement the cap and trade system here, they can cap their venoumous biased hatred filled filthy mouths, and that should give us a big enough carbon offset to stay sledding for years, I can't even believe a paper would print this!

http://www.piquenewsmagazine.com/pique/index.php?cat=C_LTE&content=Letters+1617

I just sent my response. Not that they're likely to print it.


In response to:

"An appeal to give up sleds"

This letter, dated 4/22/09, suggested that the owners of snowmobiles and pickup trucks should bury these items in our backyard (a figure of speech, I realize). It was suggested that by allowing snowmobiles and ATVs to operate in the Sea to Sky corridor, it made the residents of Whistler appear as if they did not care about the environment. I would simply ask the author of this letter to take a closer look at Whistler, and the Sea to Sky corridor. The operation of off-road vehicles is the least of your problems.

I've been traveling from Washington State to Squamish, Whistler and Pemberton to Snowmobile for the past 8 years. The changes I've watched take place in Whistler are staggering. Construction is taking place everywhere. Traffic is worse every year. A trip up the Sea to Sky is a trip surrounded by tractor trailers and box vans supplying the Whistler machine. Prices have increased to the point that Whistler is no longer an affordable vacation for a family of average income.

I would also ask the author of that letter to take a closer look at themselves. They admit to air travel. Surely if they have researched snowmobile emissions as thoroughly as they suggest, they realize the remarkable emissions from the air industry. If I am asked to voluntarily bury my snowmobile, they will voluntarily cease to travel by air, right? Why are we being single out with such a request? Frankly, living in an isolated community such as Whistler is environmentally irresponsible in itself. Large amounts of energy are being consumed unnecessarily for recreational purposes, just by the existence of Whistler. Isn't that the authors complaint against snowmobiles and ATVs? Why doesn't the author move to Vancouver where they can live within walking distance of necessities; and consumables can be delivered in a more concentrated, efficient manner.

Lastly, I would ask the author to take a closer look at their facts. The 2-stroke emissions figures that were quoted were from 1995 and 1997 fan-cooled, carbureted snowmobiles. You would be hard pressed to find a single fan cooled snowmobile older than 2000 in the Sea to Sky. Fan cooled snowmobiles must be run with a less efficient rich fuel mixture to keep the motor cool. The snowmobiles used in the Sea to Sky corridor are typically modern, fuel injected, liquid cooled machines. Two stroke emissions have vastly improved since 1997 (though they still are not great, I freely admit), and four-stroke machines have been come much more popular in the past three to four years.

I'm sorry that the author finds the image of a pickup truck with a snowmobile in the bed so offensive. I regret that I have degraded the image of Whistler by passing through with snowmobiles. Next time I will try harder to blend in with the steady stream of tractor trailers loaded with lumber, fuel, construction equipment and commercial goods. Maybe if you asked us all to pass through Whistler in the dark, we wouldn't tarnish the pure, environmentally friendly image that you've created in your minds.

My final bitter comment to the author of that letter: It must be very comforting to be able to convince yourself that the worlds problems can be solved by changing the behavior of everyone but yourself. Skiing is a recreational sport. Think of the environmental footprint (not just the carbon footprint) that could be reduced if Whistler and Blackcomb Mountains ceased to exist. I believe your quote was, 'wasteful recreation is an easy candy to give up'.
 
D

DSM

New member
Nov 26, 2007
19
0
1
Coquitlam
Good letter newtrout! Those a$$clowns from Whistler just don't get it. If they really wan't to have a positive effect on things that may cause climate change maybe they should start with the Olympics.
 
C

crazyxprider

New member
Nov 25, 2008
40
1
8
Innisfail, AB
Before someone like that trashes our sport they should calculate there own sports carbon footprint. Whistler's ski hill's carbon footprint would be mind blowing, I guess the electricty for the lifts magicly shows up, the food falls from the heavens, and the fleet of groomers must run on 2 AA bateries. Plus all the garbage. my 2 cents
 
K
Nov 10, 2008
658
40
28
B.C.
Maybe they should put a few pulp mills, log the area, throw a few mines in there, then they would be real happy. Honestly if they keep shooting there mouths of like that no one will believe what they are saying anymore, and the Govt is going to get sick of them after a while lets hope. Sorry but snowmobiles are changing just like everything else and i am sure the Govt and the builders are aware of the emissions and have been working hard to change. People like that are just out to lunch and just make themselfs look stupid.
 
T

tranquillicer

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2007
351
107
43
Sask. Canada
Inredible

Hard to believe that there are so many pompous a-holes lurking around with that"now that I'm here I want this to stop"attitude. Reminds me of Canmore, A.B. in the 90's when everyone wanted to get there and then when they did they wanted developement to stop so the environment would be saved.
Go ahead and carve up a mountain and pave over the home of many species of wildlife and cement over your own little part of the prestine wilderness, and then have the balls to tell others to stay away cause your vist there is harmfull to the "natural environment they have created". That in it's self is an Oxymoron. We don't live with nature, we live at the expense of nature.
Everything we do is at the expense of some part of nature. Why do we have to create protected ares for wildlife? Cause we have already F'd up the area that wildlife use to have as a home. Not because we snowmobile there or cross country ski or hike there, but because we have logged it or put up a dam or maybe even built a bloody ski resort on the land that use to support a natural environment.
You want to reduce your impact on the environment then live in a cave with no electricity and become a chunk of wolf-sh!t some day.
Everyone in the civilized world is doing something to reduce our carbon footprint weather we know it or not. Some more than others. The sledding community is doing things as well to clean up their act. Don't see anyone from this community lobbying for bans on hiking and skiing though. Or protesting the expansion of a highway system that will only service a ski area for an international competition in 2010. Funny how this Whistler thing seems to come up in the face of such a massive carbon dumping as the developement surrounding the entire olympic concept. Wonder if this dipsh!t is against that too, now that they are settled in at Whistler.
What does Arnold have to say about the carbon footprint of an olympic construction process? How many tonnes of carbon are emitted from a non-regulated industry such as the construction industry? It's years behind the auto and transport sectors in terms of carbon reduction. Next time a cloud of black smoke pours from the exhaust of a track hoe or a crawler that is doing excavating for another housing project at Whistler, these people should ask themselves if that's good for the environment or just good for the value of their house.
What a joke these people are!!!

Rant Over.
 
S
Nov 26, 2007
71
0
6
Langley BC
Nice letter Newtrout.

Gotta like the authors comment “low carbon footprint of an electric lift”. What about the 10,000 hectares of forest flooded by the dam to supply that electricity? Forest removed for the power lines to Whistler, carbon footprint of the manufacturing for the steel power line towers, lifts, cables…….

Life is rosy when you wear blinders.

K.
 
G

Grizzly Adams

ACCOUNT CLOSED
Jan 2, 2009
4,440
1,248
113
Move the new johnny come lately crowd off to some where without power for their ski lifts. I remember Whistler from the 70's when there was 1 small chair and I was one of the shortbus crowd living in a bus at creekside. Love to have those days back, no subaru's or greenies then and we worked all day for 1 run of powder. Take every newer than 1970 building and it's occupants and tell them to pizz off. The enviro's will lose the election again. They will lobby and biatch non stop and I will as ever ignore their silly little loud whines. Fact 1 P Kiewit dump truck will emit more crap than my sled any day. I was enjoying this area before these weenies came and will not stop because of them! The pique paper is a joke anyways, if it was any good they would not be giving it away. Thanks fer the firestarter!
 
Yea the clubs and BCfed is working on a factual responce to the verbal sh!t.
Whistler has 16 groomers that can burn 2 barrels of diesel per day thats 7200 liters per day. Whistler also has the largest fleet of sleds around 65 and they are mostly the 550 carb version talk about the mountain being green. All the tour operators use 4 stroke, SDI or etec. Interwest also owns Whistler Heliskiing, Talk about burnining the av gas, nothing does it more than a heli.

The Callaghan nordic center also has 4 groomers and at least 1/2 dozen sleds. I guess everyone can have sleds except sleddders. Even security next year will probably have a couple of dozen sleds.

Of course the biggest carbon burner are the tourists that fly into whistler,I doubt if sledding would make it in the top 20
 
K
Dec 2, 2007
145
8
18
West Kootenay
The real point of many of these "eco-saviours" is to have the outdoors and backcountry for their own agenda. I've kept up with a couple of non-motorized forums and they state over and over that they don't want to hear or smell a motorized vehicle while they are "enjoying" OUR back country. Of course it's ok for them to drive their SUV's or Vanagons from their house (made of lumber from our forests) on paved roads (built with "carbon" spewing equipment) to the ski hill or trail head so they can be enviromentally friendly. Interesting how the writers of that letter try to make it seem that a ski hill is ok to have because it's run on electricity. Wasn't there an "Earth Hour" a couple of weeks back asking people to shut off all unneccessary electrical objects in their home for an hour to conserve energy? Guess that only counts when it's not their beloved recreational use of the outdoors. And not a mention of how many hundreds of litres of fuel those groomers are using or how much hydraulic fluid is more then likely leaking onto the ground (never seen a hydraulic system without at least 1 small leak).

This could go on and on but it's been noted in the above comments already!
Kevin
 
T

tranquillicer

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2007
351
107
43
Sask. Canada
Exempt

Yea the clubs and BCfed is working on a factual responce to the verbal sh!t.
Whistler has 16 groomers that can burn 2 barrels of diesel per day thats 7200 liters per day. Whistler also has the largest fleet of sleds around 65 and they are mostly the 550 carb version talk about the mountain being green. All the tour operators use 4 stroke, SDI or etec. Interwest also owns Whistler Heliskiing, Talk about burnining the av gas, nothing does it more than a heli.

The Callaghan nordic center also has 4 groomers and at least 1/2 dozen sleds. I guess everyone can have sleds except sleddders. Even security next year will probably have a couple of dozen sleds.

Of course the biggest carbon burner are the tourists that fly into whistler,I doubt if sledding would make it in the top 20

Ad a little more salt to the wounds here, as all this "off-road" equipment is convieniently exempt from current EPA regulations for emitions. While deisel transport trucks have virtually eliminated harmfull emitions from their engines(after 2010 series of regs.) and even sleds have complied with and exceeded emitions levels for 2010, these so called eco-friendly citizens are supporting an industry that uses some of the most polluting equipment in the market place. I don't believe trees can absorb much C0.2 once they are converted to lumber and shaped into a condo at Whistler.
 

sledheadd

Well-known member
Premium Member
Dec 1, 2007
1,621
372
83
too far from mountains Alberta Canada
Hard to believe that there are so many pompous a-holes lurking around with that"now that I'm here I want this to stop"attitude. Reminds me of Canmore, A.B. in the 90's when everyone wanted to get there and then when they did they wanted developement to stop so the environment would be saved.
Go ahead and carve up a mountain and pave over the home of many species of wildlife and cement over your own little part of the prestine wilderness, and then have the balls to tell others to stay away cause your vist there is harmfull to the "natural environment they have created". That in it's self is an Oxymoron. We don't live with nature, we live at the expense of nature.
Everything we do is at the expense of some part of nature. Why do we have to create protected ares for wildlife? Cause we have already F'd up the area that wildlife use to have as a home. Not because we snowmobile there or cross country ski or hike there, but because we have logged it or put up a dam or maybe even built a bloody ski resort on the land that use to support a natural environment.
You want to reduce your impact on the environment then live in a cave with no electricity and become a chunk of wolf-sh!t some day.
Everyone in the civilized world is doing something to reduce our carbon footprint weather we know it or not. Some more than others. The sledding community is doing things as well to clean up their act. Don't see anyone from this community lobbying for bans on hiking and skiing though. Or protesting the expansion of a highway system that will only service a ski area for an international competition in 2010. Funny how this Whistler thing seems to come up in the face of such a massive carbon dumping as the developement surrounding the entire olympic concept. Wonder if this dipsh!t is against that too, now that they are settled in at Whistler.
What does Arnold have to say about the carbon footprint of an olympic construction process? How many tonnes of carbon are emitted from a non-regulated industry such as the construction industry? It's years behind the auto and transport sectors in terms of carbon reduction. Next time a cloud of black smoke pours from the exhaust of a track hoe or a crawler that is doing excavating for another housing project at Whistler, these people should ask themselves if that's good for the environment or just good for the value of their house.
What a joke these people are!!!

Rant Over.[/QUOTE
Exactly !!!!!!!!! Well said.
 
N
Nov 26, 2007
1,356
119
63
CowTown
What I see is some bitter purist who went to the backcountry and ski, so they skied 5 km up some logging road to the alpine, got there and found it all ripped by sledders or some sledders showed up when they were there and rode it out.

If they don't want sledders around, they simply have the option to go where sledders cannot access (i.e. no logging roads). I love the ideal they have that somehow they should be allowed to ski a sled area, but we cannot sled a ski area. There is so much more backcountry out there that sledders simply cannot access - so go use "it" instead of riding on the coat tails of the logging industry and using their roads to access the backcountry (where sledding is permitted and accessible), and then having the nerve to complain about the logging industry or sledders.

This idea that its about perception of sledders and our large carbon footprint - LOL - good excuse, that's just the buzz word now for people who have their own agenda for the backcountry (i.e. restricted access). As newtrout identified: our carbon footprint is far smaller than they want people to believe. This is apparent by the use of skewed data sets from carbed sleds from 20 yrs ago. Nothing like trying to prove your point by only publishing half the information.

This letter to the editor sounded like a promotion letter for the 2010 Olympics - "Please help us avoid looking like a smog-covered Beijing, primarily so that my property values will increase for potential purchases after some rich foreigner comes for the Olympics and decides they need another winter vacation house besides the one they already have in Switzerland." Whistler is currently an over-priced vacation haven for rich tourists - nothing will drive land prices more than the Olympics.

NSC
 

diamonddave

Chilly’s Mentor
Lifetime Membership
Apr 5, 2006
5,577
3,890
113
Wokeville, WA.
Newtrout...that is one awesome response.

That letter is Hypocrisy at its finest. Using figures from 15 years ago in comparison to todays vehicles. How about the comparison of the jet airliner to a sled?

If that side ever truly wants to win, then they better stop trying to alienate people, because those kind of tactics will never work.
 
S
Dec 21, 2007
125
6
18
Coquitlam, BC
Well, as wishy washy as the paper may be, at least they published some responses, including mine. Though I must say Newtrout's is probably the best written response I've read in quite sometime to this kind of BS.:beer;

http://www.piquenewsmagazine.com/pique/index.php?cat=C_LTE&content=Letters+1618



Give your heads a shake

The three individuals who signed their names to this "Appeal to give up sleds" have really got to step back and give their heads a shake. The ignorance put forth by these folks, is highlighted by the following statement in their letter: "...the day-skiers' pollution is minimized when he starts recreating (electrically driven lifts have a pretty low carbon footprint)..."

Whistler Blackcomb is one of the largest ski resort developments on the planet. To say that the carbon footprint of the day-skier is restricted to energy use of the chairlifts is just plain wrong and could not be further from the truth. Resort skiing is far from a "green" activity. The trail cutting, land and infrastructure development that has occurred in the valley over the last 25 years far exceeds the impact of the snowmobile population active in the area over the same time period.

These are individuals who simply have a vendetta against motorized recreation for whatever reason. Attacking a minority user group in the Sea to Sky corridor who have long been active in the area (and who have already made great concessions in giving up much of their historical riding area(s)), while at the same time making the ridiculous claim that their favored past-time of resort skiing is somehow more environmentally friendly than snowmobiling is just absolute garbage.

I will never understand why so many of today's backcountry users feel that everything must be regulated, and all areas divided up amongst recreational user groups. I also fail to understand why some people think they have the right to tell others how to recreate and live their lives. B.C.'s backcountry, to many, represents the ultimate in freedom, yet these days it seems to be a constant battle between those who wish to see additional restrictions and regulations enforced on others to benefit themselves and their chosen past-time, and those of us who just want to live our lives and enjoy our hobbies.

Mason Hecky

Coquitlam, B.C.



Don't stop; do it better

RE: An appeal to give up sleds (Pique letters April 23)

I can't believe you decided to print the letter from Bryce Leigh, Al Whitney and Charlotte Whitney. It borders on hate mail. Singling out one group of people who they personally feel impacts the environment more than others. I can't imagine you would print a letter that singled out other groups or organizations in such a manner.

We all impact the environment. Living on the planet affects the environment and whether or not they want to accept the fact that resort riding affects the environment, it certainly does. Maybe the ski lifts are electric; electricity certainly has an impact on our environment, so did campfires before we had electricity. How much diesel is used every year on the mountain? How many sleds are used there? Groomers? The list is endless.

Millions of tourists flock to our beautiful country every year, driving, flying, impacting the environment. We flock to other countries and become tourists ourselves. We fly, we drive, we ZipTrek through rain forests. Should we be there?

I don't plan on giving up resort riding or sledding. I believe that with increased demand the pressure is there to create better and cleaner ways to do the things we love in life. The answer isn't to stop doing it; do it better!

Another thing I was thinking of when I was reading the letter is that really, do we need newspapers anymore? We have the Internet; we could all read our news online and save millions, if not trillions, of trees! I appeal to everyone to give up newspapers! You can do it!

Amanda Lee-Dempsey

No Limits Motorsports

Squamish
 
K
Nov 10, 2008
658
40
28
B.C.
I have to just make a comment about Amanda lee's last comment about newspaper usage even though she won't probably see it. Our mills are barely running right now, this is making it hard to get the beetle kill timber out of the forests all over B.C. Everytime another mill closes more good wood is being allowed to be shipped oversees, and the pulp mills are really feeling the effect and closing down all over the province. Our pulp and paper mills are already feeling the effects of the internet and the fiber shortage the sawmills supply, and our sawmills are feeling the effect of the economy. Right now a high percentage the wood we use in this province is beetle kill almost all of it to be exact. I deliver wood chips to the pulp mills and the northern economy depends on it, We are so easily forgotten up here. This wood has to be taken out of the bush, within a few years it won't be good for nothing and it is going to cause massive forests fires, so nobody as far as i am concerned is going to be saving anything by not using paper at least not for now. In the industry no wood is wasted, we make lumber, from that comes wood chips, then pulp and paper. The waste from the sawmills after chips makes hog fuel that powers the pulp mills, what i am saying is we have come a long ways from the good old days and so much has changed in the way we use our timber the industry has made so many changes to adapt, The beetle kill wood has to be taken out as much as possible right now in the future we won't even have to strike a match, trees are falling down all over the place up here now and when the de-composition comes it will self ignite. I also find it kind of funny that the y2y closure area and all the backroads that are going to be de-activated are in areas that have been hit hard by the pine beetle. I burn wood in my own home all winter and encourage everyone to, it is a huge renewable source of energy and we should and are at least up here looking for new ways develop technology in the way we use whats left of this resource and i think and hope in the near future people are going to start seeing the effects of this. Our forest industry is adapting to the change in the enviroment restrictions the same way everything else is and if you could actually measure the changes it has made compared to oil and gas, mining, hydro electric projects, or many other forms of energy we use i think the wood industry has cleaned up its act more than most. I am sorry for ranting here but when most people see trees they see green, but many people in this province see dead trees that soon are going to create a huge problem for everyone, so please don't quit using wood products because you think you are saving a tree.
 
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