yeah cat didn't cut a reverse notch in the helix so they have to use a really stiff spring to hold the belt in reverse.
this is the hercules helix. it works great
DRIVEN CLUTCH SPRING OPTIONS
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yeah cat didn't cut a reverse notch in the helix so they have to use a really stiff spring to hold the belt in reverse.
this is the hercules helix. it works great
So, I am guessing that with the Hercules helix you can use a much softer secondary spring for much smoother clutch travel? Did you find a new secondary spring that compliments the Hercules helix?
K
That is wrong. The plastic ramps in the secondary are what hold it closed when you are in reverse, not the spring
and FWIW, here's a list of '16 team clutch parts, available from cat:
http://www.arcticchat.com/forum/pro...primary-boss-secondary-tuning-components.html
thundershift sells a purple spring it has a finish rate of 180. thats what i was running when sled was stock. except for a tki 2.33 with 7 tooth drivers and a 156x3.
now that i have some power adders i am at the point i had to add some spring to stop from over shifting so i went to their green spring. its a 240lb finish rate.
my secondary clutching theory has always been to run the lightest spring i could that holds the belt from slipping and still achieves a sufficient back shift
put a 180 finish rate spring in it with the stock helix and it will slam open all the way up those ****ty plastic ramps and then slip in reverse...
on a side note i finally have the 16 primary sorted out. no help from team for parts, found a way to make the h5 stuff work for 6-9k with the 83 belt and the slp set up with stock weights.
Mine is a 2014. I tried the 170-270 speedwerx spring today in cooke, and it works noticeably better than stock. Pulls much further and doesn't act like it hits a wall so bad. It did not affect my r's at all and backshift is as good as before. Clutch seems to run cooler by touch. I didn't take a temp measurement. might be able to go even further, but I am going to run this for a while.:face-icon-small-hap
That's great news Clutch! So, if you were going to try another H5 spring, which one would you choose to maybe even improve things a bit more? Also, did reverse seem to work normally?
Based on the Speedwerx H5 spring rates below, maybe a 170-260 or a 150-250?
150-230
150-250
150-270
155-220
170-260
170-270
Based on the Speedwerx H5 spring rates below, maybe a 170-260 or a 150-250?
150-230
150-250
150-270
155-220
170-260
170-270
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remember to take out primary weight as you decrease spring rates.
I rode today with the Speedwerx H5 170/270 on my M8000 162" SP with SLP stage III kit. The primary is SLP recommended set up. The 170/270 worked excellent on the gas in all conditions going forward.
On the down side I saw no heat reduction, does not hold as well going downhill, and reverse does not work correctly now.
Thanks,
Woody
On the down side I saw no heat reduction, does not hold as well going downhill, and reverse does not work correctly now.
Thanks,
Woody
If i were to try another it would be the 170-260. I think the 150 initial would probably cause backshift issues, but maybe not. I don't believe I used reverse all day come to think of it? I cant think that it would have screwed it up though. It held back great and just seemed to be an improvement every where.
Great reports guys! It sounds like the 170/270 works well, at least going forward.
If indeed reverse becomes an issue for all of our sleds, what can we do to make reverse work while reaping the benefits of using the Speedwerx H5 170/270?
Could your differences in experiences with the spring be related to snow type? I know the differences in the snow at Cooke and Cascade Concrete can be huge?
I haven't dove into the secondary on my Proclimb yet but, I thought I read somewhere that there is a thick black plastic ring that if installed increases spring tension slightly and if removed reduces spring tension? Could trying that installed or removed maybe be a difference maker for allowing reverse to work correctly?
If indeed reverse becomes an issue for all of our sleds, what can we do to make reverse work while reaping the benefits of using the Speedwerx H5 170/270?
Could your differences in experiences with the spring be related to snow type? I know the differences in the snow at Cooke and Cascade Concrete can be huge?
I haven't dove into the secondary on my Proclimb yet but, I thought I read somewhere that there is a thick black plastic ring that if installed increases spring tension slightly and if removed reduces spring tension? Could trying that installed or removed maybe be a difference maker for allowing reverse to work correctly?
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Didn't discover reverse issue until loading sled in parking lot. Never used reverse during the day. My thinking is a similar rate to stock will work well if it does not bind at full shift. Either way I think a stiffer initial rate will be required for reverse. To keep the belt from slipping in reverse is a combination of spring and whatever method is used for stopping the clutch from continuing to open...notches or plastic cam backs.
Thanks,
Woody
Thanks,
Woody
So if the initial rate of the stock secondary spring is 180 and Speedwerx 170 allows the sheaves to open, do we need a 180/260-270 spring?
Maybe a 180 initial rate is what Cat found to be the very minimum spring rate where reverse worked every time without any drama?
Richardderkevorkian, what is the initial rate for the Cat Green secondary spring you were using? You said it had a 240 finish rate. It seems like I should be able to find that information somewhere.... I will look.
Maybe a 180 initial rate is what Cat found to be the very minimum spring rate where reverse worked every time without any drama?
Richardderkevorkian, what is the initial rate for the Cat Green secondary spring you were using? You said it had a 240 finish rate. It seems like I should be able to find that information somewhere.... I will look.
i didn't ask thunder shift what the initial is. i didn't care to much since the notches in the hercules helix lock the secondary fully closed in reverse.
the lighter the finish rate you can run without belt slip the cooler your clutches will run. i was able to take 4 grams of primary weight out with the purple 180 spring. ice cold clutches with a 911 cover and hercules helix
as MBMS stated you'll lose the downhill braking force but i hated that anyways so it didnt bother me
So, is this the secondary spring you are using?
https://thunderproducts.com/shop/tpi-secondary-clutch-springs/
I don't suppose this spring would work with the stock helix (I would think you would lose reverse for sure)?
So to make the secondary work like it should, you need a $219.00 helix and a $35 secondary spring? That will be more than $275 with shipping.
Would something like the be a better option for roughly the same money?
http://flymotorsports.com/team-tied...urce=nextag&utm_medium=cse&utm_term=30-421896
https://thunderproducts.com/shop/tpi-secondary-clutch-springs/
I don't suppose this spring would work with the stock helix (I would think you would lose reverse for sure)?
So to make the secondary work like it should, you need a $219.00 helix and a $35 secondary spring? That will be more than $275 with shipping.
Would something like the be a better option for roughly the same money?
http://flymotorsports.com/team-tied...urce=nextag&utm_medium=cse&utm_term=30-421896
Yeah that's the spring. I ran a purple when my sled was stock it worked well. Switched to the green this year because It was up shifting faster than I wanted with the power adders. The Hercules helix literally locks the clutch closed in reverse. You could back up with no spring. Team clutches weren't that cheap when I was upgrading stuff 2 years ago but that looks like a nice option. I would call and chat with thundershift. He's a great guy and will chat your ear off about clutching.
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True, Lon is a super nice guy to talk to. I may have to do that but if i do, I know he will sell me something.
Do all Proclimb secondaries have issues?
Are the 2015 Cat secondaries improved over the 2012 -2014 secondaries?
If so, what changed? A
Also, if they are better on the newer Proclimbs, do the issues that still exist warrant changes like those made by richardderkevorkian?
Do all Proclimb secondaries have issues?
Are the 2015 Cat secondaries improved over the 2012 -2014 secondaries?
If so, what changed? A
Also, if they are better on the newer Proclimbs, do the issues that still exist warrant changes like those made by richardderkevorkian?
Just an update on this. I tried my reverse today and had no issues at all. not sure why it didn't work for others?:face-icon-small-con
So, you still like the 170-270 H5 spring much better than stock?
Tell us why......
Tell us why......
