Sled fails to pull RPM

XFIRE800 · Nov 19, 2017

Was riding cooke this weekend and my sled would only pull about 7600 rpm. Looking for ideas on what could be wrong.

Background:
2016 Axys 800 155
1000 miles
Ran first two years stock
This was first ride with bmp pipe and bullydog

Sled has had some electrical issues in the past that caused some issues like this, but a bit different. (New wiring harness and stator warrantied end of last season).
Also has had issues with primary moveable sheave bushings swelling.

Stock i would have ran 62 or 60 gram weights. I started the weekend off with 66's for the bullydog setup (supposed to run about 4 grams more weight). Also using a borrowed clutch that is all but new since mine is at the shop getting a bushing put in. We got up to elevation and started riding, i noticed i couldn't pull over 7600 rpm. My buddy had a set of 60 gram weights that we threw in to see if we could pick up some r's (yes 6 grams lighter). After putting those in i could pull 7900-8100, but my bottom end was noticeably weaker. Other than that the sled ran SUPER clean with the bulldog bikeman tune. That makes me think the bmp setup is not the issue, but who knows. Has anyone else had similar issues and if so, what caused it?

Murph · Nov 19, 2017

1000 miles and a radical reduction in weight and not much more rpm...

I’d try swapping out your four motor mount rubbers and the torque arm rubber.

Sounds like your motor is shifting back because of the sacked out rubber bushings— effectively shortening the clutch Center to Center measurement. Massive reduction in weight and not hitting the limiter is usually the sign.

XFIRE800 · Nov 19, 2017

Murph said:
1000 miles and a radical reduction in weight and not much more rpm...

I’d try swapping out your four motor mount rubbers and the torque arm rubber.

Sounds like your motor is shifting back because of the sacked out rubber bushings— effectively shortening the clutch Center to Center measurement. Massive reduction in weight and not hitting the limiter is usually the sign.

I planned on calling dealership and getting some new ones in the morning. Certainly not a bad thing to do regardless.

Snowbird11 · Nov 19, 2017

sounds like motor mounts are a good place to start. also are you sure the borrowed clutch is in good condition?

fyi, with your clutch they can put all the new bushings they want in there and it won't change the issue you were having without modification.

XFIRE800 · Nov 19, 2017

Snowbird11 said:
sounds like motor mounts are a good place to start. also are you sure the borrowed clutch is in good condition?

fyi, with your clutch they can put all the new bushings they want in there and it won't change the issue you were having without modification.

The clutch is in good shape. Maybe 200 miles on it and i have been with for all of them. The sled it was on ran great. I don't doubt that either, i will probably stick with this clutch again to limit the variables for now.

TRS · Nov 19, 2017

If the mounts don’t fix it......throw the stock pipe back on and see if it improves.

AndrettiDog · Nov 19, 2017

With those RPM's I'd visit the page about the Axys relay failures. I was having issues, changed my relays and the problems went away. Just a cheap easy check. They don't cost much to try. I can tell you that my symptoms were power to the point where the valves were supposed to open, but then it would fall on it's face (because the valves didn't open).

XFIRE800 · Nov 19, 2017

AndrettiDog said:
With those RPM's I'd visit the page about the Axys relay failures. I was having issues, changed my relays and the problems went away. Just a cheap easy check. They don't cost much to try. I can tell you that my symptoms were power to the point where the valves were supposed to open, but then it would fall on it's face (because the valves didn't open).

The relays were brand new and had never been outdoors before that. Completely new wiring harness and stator at the end of last season.

xmk1080 · Nov 20, 2017

XFIRE800 said:
The relays were brand new and had never been outdoors before that. Completely new wiring harness and stator at the end of last season.

Did it run completely fine after you changed all the stuff out last season? Because if it did and the motor mounts aren't bad then all you did was put a pipe and a different tune in. Any chance the pipe sensor is not working properly since you switched it from one pipe to the other, once that pipe hits a certain temperature it adds timing and fuel I believe somewhere between 1100 and 1200 degrees. Is there any chance that bikeman gave you the wrong map? Try to keep it simple and go back to things you changed. As trs said even try to stock pipe, unfortunately you won't be able to go back to the stock tune unless you have it reflashed at a dealership. There are lots of other things you can do but I would start with what you changed.

XFIRE800 · Nov 20, 2017

xmk1080 said:
Did it run completely fine after you changed all the stuff out last season? Because if it did and the motor mounts aren't bad then all you did was put a pipe and a different tune in. Any chance the pipe sensor is not working properly since you switched it from one pipe to the other, once that pipe hits a certain temperature it adds timing and fuel I believe somewhere between 1100 and 1200 degrees. Is there any chance that bikeman gave you the wrong map? Try to keep it simple and go back to things you changed. As trs said even try to stock pipe, unfortunately you won't be able to go back to the stock tune unless you have it reflashed at a dealership. There are lots of other things you can do but I would start with what you changed.

I can easily go back to the stock tune at any time. The pipe sensor isnt a bad place to check though either. I dont think it would be the wrong map because is runs super clean, but you never know.

xmk1080 · Nov 20, 2017

XFIRE800 said:
I can easily go back to the stock tune at any time. The pipe sensor isnt a bad place to check though either. I dont think it would be the wrong map because is runs super clean, but you never know.

You can still run super clean and be making less power. Let us know if you go back to the stock flash with your Bully Dog, I know it's supposed to store our stock flash but I have been told it doesn't by somebody who has gone through this. That bikeman pipe is supposed to work without a programmer at least at higher elevation and yes I know they're programmer is just supposed to clean a bunch of stuff up

wfieldin · Nov 20, 2017

I've had or am having issues with my Bullydog. It has lost the stock tune which was resent to my by BMP. When I was running the Stage 2 tune it would DET every once in awhile which I have never been able to determine exactly why. (I know many things can play roles in DET)

Removed tune this summer and sled would start up in DET mode at low idle, couldn't get rid of it. Have been sent an update tune supposedly to the latest and greatest and told this would solve the issue.

Bottom line is I'm slowly losing my confidence it this better than sliced bread tuner!

Last rant I have is when I saw the BMP guys at the snow show and talked to them about the DET issue at startup their response was:

" why would you run it stock"

......really!

Jreng87 · Nov 20, 2017

When trouble shooting you always need to work backwards... what has changed since the time before?

If the sled was running well before you had electrical issues and stuff was replaced, did it run proper after that as well?

If it ran well and then you added the pipe/tuner/whatever and it didn’t run proper, it would be safe to assume that there is an issue with the changes and that needs to be addressed first. I’m your case returning the exhaust to stock and removing the Bullydog would be a fairly easy task to see if it is running proper or not “stock”.

Always think back to when it ran well and then what you have changed since then and start there, otherwise with the internet and forums/groups being such you are going to get opinions and ideas that vastly vary and have you chasing things down until you are blue in the face.

XFIRE800 · Nov 20, 2017

Jreng87 said:
When trouble shooting you always need to work backwards... what has changed since the time before?

If the sled was running well before you had electrical issues and stuff was replaced, did it run proper after that as well?

If it ran well and then you added the pipe/tuner/whatever and it didn’t run proper, it would be safe to assume that there is an issue with the changes and that needs to be addressed first. I’m your case returning the exhaust to stock and removing the Bullydog would be a fairly easy task to see if it is running proper or not “stock”.

Always think back to when it ran well and then what you have changed since then and start there, otherwise with the internet and forums/groups being such you are going to get opinions and ideas that vastly vary and have you chasing things down until you are blue in the face.

The issue is......it never has. Had some rpm issues in the past but chalked it up to electrical issues. Next ride will be with the stock pipe and ecu, new motor mounts, and an indy dan'd primary.

Indy_500 · Nov 20, 2017

Dont forget new clutch springs and clean the powervalves.

Sage Crusher · Nov 20, 2017

^^^^^ Indeed The power valves say self cleaning- but have seen/ cleaned enough of them to say NOPE....

The motor mount that reallyseems to be taking the beating ( at least the ones- I have pulled on many sleds) is the Mag rear.... if you have some time while waiting, pull the sucker and look at it- they really get worn.

Madtown · Nov 21, 2017

If you have not cleaned the power valves yet I highly suggest doing that. Mine had 600 miles on them & completely gummy/sticking. Using VES Gold the whole time.

Jreng87 · Nov 21, 2017

XFIRE800 said:
The issue is......it never has. Had some rpm issues in the past but chalked it up to electrical issues. Next ride will be with the stock pipe and ecu, new motor mounts, and an indy dan'd primary.

If the sled has never ran proper from the start, then you have no idea where to start. You chalked up initial RPM issues to electrical but don’t know if that was the actual cause or not?

And if you change too many things at once trying to solve an issue you will never actually isolate what the problem was in the first place.

XFIRE800 · Nov 21, 2017

Jreng87 said:
If the sled has never ran proper from the start, then you have no idea where to start. You chalked up initial RPM issues to electrical but don’t know if that was the actual cause or not?

And if you change too many things at once trying to solve an issue you will never actually isolate what the problem was in the first place.

How is going back to stock changing too many things? If i put on the indy dan primary and new motor mounts and it works then great.

XFIRE800 · Nov 21, 2017

Madtown said:
If you have not cleaned the power valves yet I highly suggest doing that. Mine had 600 miles on them & completely gummy/sticking. Using VES Gold the whole time.

They were out last season, couple hundred miles ago and looked good, but i can check them out again.

Sled fails to pull RPM

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