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Primary clutch sacked out... again

Norway

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Nov 29, 2007
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7700 was right after the new motor was installed. That is how the worthless dealer returned it to me. I assumed they would have noticed if the cable was broken. I brought it back to them with the low rpm issue and they blamed the clutch. Slightly better but not fixed.


I will check the cable while I have it apart for the mounts. BTW rpm was down to 7200 max the last time out.

So what kind of department at PI should you contact when having issues with a dealer? Not sure if this is a winnable war, but my feelings say that every soul on this planet should know the name of the dealer and their head mechanic.

I would probably be pissed off enough to find another dealer with a stellar rep, not say anything but just pay them to "fix my sled". Then take it to PI and ask how a dealer can give out such a product and call it good.
 

Murph

Polaris Moderator/ Polaris Ambassador/ Klim Amb.
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Lifetime Membership
7700 was right after the new motor was installed. That is how the worthless dealer returned it to me. I assumed they would have noticed if the cable was broken. I brought it back to them with the low rpm issue and they blamed the clutch. Slightly better but not fixed.


I will check the cable while I have it apart for the mounts. BTW rpm was down to 7200 max the last time out.

A broken cable is not visible externally.

The ECU will not know that the cable is broken as long as the actuator is hitting it's three pre-programmed positions.

Unless the mechanic did a push-pull test with the cable, he would never know if it was broken or not.

I was investigating a low rpm condition on a customer sled and only realized the cable was broken when I did push-pull test.

Now, I check cable whenever I'm servicing the E-VES valves.
 
R
Feb 29, 2016
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A broken cable is not visible externally.

The ECU will not know that the cable is broken as long as the actuator is hitting it's three pre-programmed positions.

Unless the mechanic did a push-pull test with the cable, he would never know if it was broken or not.

I was investigating a low rpm condition on a customer sled and only realized the cable was broken when I did push-pull test.

Now, I check cable whenever I'm servicing the E-VES valves.





I think it is ridiculous that they replaced the motor in my sled and delivered it back not making the specified rpm. They blamed a bad clutch roller and wanted $650 to rebuild it. I asked if they could run it through Polaris and was told they would NEVER cover it. I am pretty sure they would have with just a little prompting.


At this point, it for sure needs a clutch and mounts. Maybe it needs the cable too, I will check it out. I am tired of spending money to fix this nearly new, expensive toy when it shouldn't be all worn out after just a year of use. For all I know the compression has gone to sh1t too. It was 107 psi both sides after the first ride.
 
R
Feb 29, 2016
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So what kind of department at PI should you contact when having issues with a dealer? Not sure if this is a winnable war, but my feelings say that every soul on this planet should know the name of the dealer and their head mechanic.

I would probably be pissed off enough to find another dealer with a stellar rep, not say anything but just pay them to "fix my sled". Then take it to PI and ask how a dealer can give out such a product and call it good.





This is not my first time having issues with local dealers and Polaris Industries. My 2014 Pro was in the shop 15 times at three dealers before one finally got the TPS adjusted correctly. I was going to use yet another dealer in the area and they did the engine replacement.


Somehow neither Polaris nor the dealer claim to know who is the warranty company. Somehow neither knows who paid for the crate motor that went in my sled? They have the warranty dates all wrong, they are utter boobs (Polaris customer service). Completely unprofessional, of no help whatsoever and full of misinformation.


I have yet to find a good dealer with reliable service. Just plain does not exist around here. I have tried 4 different ones.
 

Snowbird11

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May 29, 2011
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7700 was right after the new motor was installed. That is how the worthless dealer returned it to me. I assumed they would have noticed if the cable was broken. I brought it back to them with the low rpm issue and they blamed the clutch. Slightly better but not fixed.


I will check the cable while I have it apart for the mounts. BTW rpm was down to 7200 max the last time out.

Removing the belt should help isolate the clutch problems. If you don't blow up the motor when you pin it then you might have a broken cable.:face-icon-small-con
 

Murph

Polaris Moderator/ Polaris Ambassador/ Klim Amb.
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So in addition to needing a new motor at under 1000 miles, my primary had a bad roller about the same time. I brought the sled back right after the motor job and they told me it was the clutch and wanted ~$650 for the job. I just do not think that is right. I bought an expensive machine new from a dealer and paid extra for the promotional extended warranty. I did the work myself for the $250 worth of parts it looked like it needed. I thought I was very careful but just 200 miles later it is apparently in need of the same $650 rebuild, and that is the claimed reason the sled hasn't made over 7200 rpm since the new motor went in.


I took it back to them this time thinking I had the clutch fixed including a new spring and belt. The dealer told Polaris that I had worked on it so definitely no coverage. Again, what a crock. Because I don't feel like being raped by your dealer I do some work and now for sure it is my fault? I have been successfully wrenching on things with motors for decades. I think it should have been done the first time because it wore out prematurely. Are we now accepting 1000 mile motors and clutches that crap out as wear items? that is a pretty pathetic standard for a $13,000 machine with an extended warranty that Polaris can't even find? The dealer says they don't know who the warranty company is either? Well who paid for the motor job guys? Neither side knows?


It is just a freak show. I told them to button it up I would come and get it and make other arrangements. I go out of my way to spend money at this dealer. I recommended my buddy to them who bought a new sled from them. This is how they helped me out. I get it, by the book right, fair enough. Do not expect me back nor should you expect positive referrals.


So with a quick search I found a new primary for $483. All is should need is the spring and the weights fitted right?. I could get new weights if needed, and the spring only has 200 miles on it. Any tips or tricks to getting a new one set up and working?


I have ZERO faith that this will restore the sleds performance. Pretty sure it has several other issues yet unresolved. It needs done though, obviously. The dealer made no offer the go with the new one for less, probably couldn't get full mark up that way I guess.


Seems like the dealer and the manufacturer have both forgotten that the money only comes from the customer. Customers have lots of other choices in the market. Lose one or two and you will be fine. Make a habit if this like I think Polaris has and best of luck.


Anyway, end rant. Tips on fixing my clutch issue?

I get it. You are understandably frustrated. But, let's review.

Engine went down, Polaris replaced. You are bummed that motor went down (who wouldn't be), but stoked that Polaris put in a new motor.

When you got that motor back, it never made peak RPM. My guess is the E-VES cable was broken then but nobody noticed. The tech should have noticed--but truth be told-- I didn't start doing push pull tests on E-VES motors until I came across my first broken one on a customers turbo with 1700 miles. That is not on Polaris, they warranteed your motor-- your dealer flubbed the install.

Flat rollers on clutch. Everyone of these I have come across when sled was still under warranty was taken care of. Your dealer decided they didn't want to open a warranty case-- your dealer decided that it wasn't warranty. That is on your dealer.

You bought new/used motor mounts for $180??? All you need is the 4 rubber isolators and the torque link mount (the one that mounts on the cylinder). Those five parts retail for under $100 online.

Would be interesting to put your "sacked out" rebuilt clutch on your motor with a new E-VES cable and new motor rubber isolators and see what you get for RPM.

I totally understand that you figured you paid $13,000 for a snowmobile and it should run flawlessly. Unfortunately, it doesnt work that way-- especially when you ride them like they are intended--hard. I've read your posts where you are crucifying Polaris, you are definitely entitled to your opinion. Your problem, albeit frustrating, is rectifiable. $36 E-VES cable,$100 of rubber isolators and you are back in business. I actually keep spares of all those parts on my shelves for personal and customer use. Be glad you don't own an 850 that eats $200 belts every 200 miles and no one knows why.

According to your post, " I have been successfully wrenching on things with motors for decades"---- That's good. You have a huge advantage over a lot of people on this forum. That is how you are going to fix this problem. Would it be better if you could just drop your sled off at your dealer and they would fix it? Of course, but it sounds like your dealer may have have a competency problem. You have two choices: Rely on your dealer that leads to frustration and missed riding, or get in their and do it yourself.


My suggestion, install E-VES cable (don't forget to do E-VES relearn with Digital Wrench) make sure you have smooth movement and can feel all three positons-- total movement should be 16-18mm, install the rubber isolators (don't forget to re-check clutch alignment after new rubber install), check the weight bushings, and install weight shims to remove sideplay.

Replace the 5 motor rubbers at no more than 1,000 mi intervals. Check the clutch weight bushings at 500 mile intervals and replace the primary spring at the same time. Keep a close eye on belt deflection-- the 1183 belts tend to stretch beyond your ability to adjust the deflection correctly.

We have three Axys sleds here. They have 2400 mi, 2000 mi, 1600 mi. I've got a customer with 2200 Turbo miles on an SKS with the original top end (he was the one with the broken E-VES cable)

Mentally reset your brain. Leave the "F- this" "F-that", "F-Polaris", "F my dealer" at home. Go ride after doing the above mentioned procedures and report back. If you have any questions, don't be afraid to reach out. I sent you a PM with my phone number in case you have any other questions.
 

Murph

Polaris Moderator/ Polaris Ambassador/ Klim Amb.
Staff member
Lifetime Membership
Removing the belt should help isolate the clutch problems. If you don't blow up the motor when you pin it then you might have a broken cable.:face-icon-small-con


(SouthPark voice)....

That would be bad, m'kay.... With no belt, the primary clutch sheaves would slam together....


All you have to do to check cable is remove hood. Loosen 17mm nut on cable and pop it off the actuator. Then you can do push pull test. Should take less than 10 minutes the first time. Be careful not the bend cable end as you are removing cable from actuator.
 

tdorval

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Dec 4, 2007
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Red Lodge, MT
I've also had a e-ves cable snap. Hardest part of the fix is that you have to bring it to the dealer for them to relearn. Wish I had Digi wrench...
 

richracer1

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Feb 2, 2011
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FWIW, I put in a brand new E-VES kit (everything new except for the actuator) when I did my 860 kit. After the first ride I decided I had better get the relearn done just to be safe. The Tech said everything was, "with in spec" and was wondering why I wanted the relearn done.

Just saying I think the E-VES relearn may have it's place, such as when the actuator is replaced, but it wasn't needed with new valves and cable on my sled. :noidea:
 
R
Feb 29, 2016
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I think I will definitely stick with F#$% Polaris. Never had these issues with the Cats I owned, never. I am still riding those old Cats these days because the Polaris dealer network sucks green donkey dingus.


Even if you go buy a $13,000 KIA and beat the holy living tar out of it I bet it last a LOT longer than the 1000 miles these sleds seem to last. That is a machine with 10X the number of parts...


I bought the whole motor mount because there is rubber on both ends of them. There is more than just the rubber inserts. If the inserts are going bad, what about the rubber backers? Either way I have all of those parts now, just waiting on an EV cable now.


You may find this situation acceptable and normal but I will not buy another machine from Poo. That is some abysmal quality IMO and the "customer service" from both the selection of dealers I have tried and the parent company just plain sucks. I paid for a warranty, neither Poo nor the dealer can tell me who it is with even though both have been paid by it. Massive cluster F&%$ is what it is. I will remain pissed off that they cant or wont fix the machine and my money goes elsewhere from now on
 

Reg2view

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And that's why a competitive market works. Here's to tex-cat and doo building a better sled - will raise the bar for poo.


Since the Pro RMK, poo has been delivering the RMK as backcountry boondocking version of a race sled - she ain't gonna run at full capability for long without routine rebuild, replace, rework. There was also lots of R&D pushed down to the consumer (e.g., Quick Drive). And it worked for the backcountry market - the 155 RMK is and has been the single highest sales volume model in the industry for five years. The Axys was just next man up, more of everything. What we do with these stock sleds ain't free, and still cheaper than all mods in the past to get to the same places.
 
R
Feb 29, 2016
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I guess it will never change as long as people are accepting of such poor quality. I contributed, my last three machine were bought new from Poo, only the first one was decent, the second fraught with running issues and dealer issues, the third is nothing less than a time bomb.


Lets be honest, nobody blows more motors than Polaris. Nobody bends more a-arms. Nobody has this many general poor quality issues. I suspect they all have crap service networks.


It is a shame this has become acceptable. You guys act like these are the only machines on earth subject to hard use. For $13k and a supposed warranty I shouldn't be having to shell out hundreds of dollars on parts every 500-1000 miles. That is well below the standard of the industry as well. I ride with all Cats and Doo's. They haven't had near the trouble I have and we all ride the same places. I already do 5x the maint. those guys do. I had to tighten up the track on my buddys XM the other day. Hadn't been touched since new. the sled has 2500 miles on it, second belt. lots of Cat stories too.


I had my head in the sand. I love how they ride but it is no longer worth it for me to continue this way. I thought the relationship with my used Porsche was going to be a pain but it's nothing compared to this.


I will get it working properly and sell it to the next glutton for punishment.
 
A
Nov 26, 2007
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Elko, NV.
I can see where Murph is coming from and I can also relate to what Red has gone through. I've also had my share of Axys running issues that took quite a bit of research to solve. The dealers within a 360 mile radius of my hometown were of no help whatsoever, just wanted $$$ to accomplish nothing. You have to be a pretty good mechanic/troubleshooter/tuner in order to keep a well used sled running like new. Below is a list of some of the issues I've had with dealers working on my sleds, some of these are high volume well respected dealers.

1) Broken crank replaced by dealer: I received the sled drove it four miles and shorted a pinched stator wire from poor install. It's 360 miles back to the dealer so I purchased a stator, replaced it and took the sled out for a ride, seemed noisy/rattly and found they had not reinstalled the grafoil seal at the Y-pipe. While installing a grafoil seal I noticed all the bolts were only hand tight on the exhaust manifold as they were all backing out. While tightening the exhaust manifold bolts I noticed that I had no antifreeze in the reservoir bottle.

2) New shortblock in 2012 Pro: Drove the sled a few miles, got noisy, found the exhaust valve laying in the belly pan.

3) Friend had work done at a respected dealer: Drove the sled a few miles and had steam coming out from under the hood. Nobody bothered to tighten the bolts on the thermostat housing.

4) I was having some RPM issues a while back and had a dealer give it a once over. I got the sled back, still didn't run and vibrated like a jackhammer. It turns out they reassembled the secondary 180 degrees out of balance and didn't bother to tighten any of the helix bolts.

5) 6 week old Axys's ran like a 600 at 1,100 miles, dealer accepted $$$$$ had no idea why it wouldn't run. I did have a primary roller starting to go bad, but it was not the source of my running issue, they would not rebuild the clutch under warranty. I rebuilt the clutch on my own and eventually discovered a totally sacked out secondary spring and very badly worn motor mounts through Murph's advice. I replaced worn parts and the sled works great once again.

I've got about another half dozen fail stories I could share but don't want to completely bore anyone to death. When nobody can get the small stuff right you have to wonder if they did that lousy a job on the big stuff!!!

My point is that there is apparently very little training given to the techs or that we now live in a society where for some reason you can't find anybody who knows anything or gives a s&!t.

Wrench On!!!!
 
R
Feb 29, 2016
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I do really appreciate the help in this thread. I can and will get the sled working again with the advice given here. Hopefully I can get a last ride or two before storing for summer.
 
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