Deleting Oil Injection on C-Tec2

SnoPro1000 · Mar 21, 2017

BlueDevil said:
What does mvm run for a belt? And I'll just put my TKI on the 18's. I won't be running a oil tank.

How can you not run the oil injection? If you delete the oil injection on slower speeds when injectors are only injecting fuel at the top of the piston you will starve the bottom end of oil.
The oil injection, injects oil in the bottom end and intake after reeds to help with lubricatikn during slowing speeds, your call but I wouldn't delete it

goridedoo · Mar 21, 2017

BlueDevil said:
What does mvm run for a belt? And I'll just put my TKI on the 18's. I won't be running a oil tank.

LOL you won't be making it far.

BlueDevil · Mar 21, 2017

Been running oil injection on the 600 Ctec race sleds since they come out so I'll be fine. It makes me laugh how you guys say it won't work when you have never tried it or understand how the oil injection system works on these engines.

BlueDevil · Mar 21, 2017

And just to clarify wherever there is fuel there is oil when you premix. So do the math.

Phizzer · Mar 21, 2017

So just to clarify for everyone, the oil injection delete can be done on these DFI engines. If you read closely at what is exactly going on with oil injection you will understand why it's possible.

As stated, at lower speeds fuel is injected directly into the cylinder and at higher speeds also into the crankcase area. The key to it all working is the slotted piston design which allows for fuel injection into the crankcase area from the top set of injectors.

By deleting the oil injection pump and premixing, you are still getting lubrication in the crank case area at low speeds and high speeds. The oil injection pump delivers oil to the fuel rail and mixes the fuel prior to the injector opening. You are essentially just changing the way the oil is delivered to the injector by premixing.

summ8rmk · Mar 21, 2017

So, no fuel in the crank case at low rpm. And that is acceptable?

Go Trashy!

summ8rmk · Mar 21, 2017

https://youtu.be/tPILaJbCLMk

Go Trashy!

Phizzer · Mar 21, 2017

summ8rmk said:
So, no fuel in the crank case at low rpm. And that is acceptable?

Go Trashy!

The window in the piston allows for fuel/oil to be injected into the crankcase for lubrication.

summ8rmk · Mar 21, 2017

Go to the 1min mark on the Video.
It clearly states, at low rpm the mixture is injected on top of the piston, at higher RPM the mixture is injected through the slot in the piston to lubricate the wrist pin and bottom end.

Go Trashy!

Phizzer · Mar 21, 2017

summ8rmk said:
Go to the 1min mark on the Video.
It clearly states, at low rpm the mixture is injected on top of the piston, at higher RPM the mixture is injected through the slot in the piston to lubricate the wrist pin and bottom end.

Go Trashy!

That is correct and I am not disagreeing there. Looking at that video, it appears there is still a small amount of fuel/oil mixture that is injected through the window at low RPM (See 1:00 minute mark). The question is, by deleting the oil pump and no longer providing oil at the air intake flange, does this amount of fuel/oil mixture provide enough lubrication at low RPM to prevent an engine failure?

Phizzer · Mar 21, 2017

The other question I have is why would you want to delete the oil injection on this engine?

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BlueDevil · Mar 21, 2017

Reliability. I have had great luck in the past with engines of all brands premixing so I will continue to do so. Also I know that every drop of fuel that is injected has the proper amount of oil. Plus you lose a little weight in the process.

boondocker97 · Mar 22, 2017

Phizzer said:
That is correct and I am not disagreeing there. Looking at that video, it appears there is still a small amount of fuel/oil mixture that is injected through the window at low RPM (See 1:00 minute mark). The question is, by deleting the oil pump and no longer providing oil at the air intake flange, does this amount of fuel/oil mixture provide enough lubrication at low RPM to prevent an engine failure?

I'm guessing it doesn't. I didn't get to talk to them much about it, but someone that has a lot of experience modding the Ctec2 engines had this to say:

Is it possible to oil delete the 600 and 800 Ctec2 motors? Yes. Is it as simple as pulling the pump, tank, and just pre-mixing the fuel? No, there's a lot more to it than that.

Seems like we should have a separate thread about oil deletes on this engine platform. Can a Mod move the comments?

89sandman · Mar 23, 2017

If oil injection is not needed then why have it? Cause some people are too stupid to be able to add a few ounces of oil to a gallon of gas. I have had one sled motor burn down because of a injection failure and one is enough to convince me it is just another part on a sled that can fail, so why have it? Riding two strokes and mixing fuel all my life I always thought it was stupid when I started sledding that they inject the oil...

XFIRE800 · Mar 23, 2017

BlueDevil said:
Reliability. I have had great luck in the past with engines of all brands premixing so I will continue to do so. Also I know that every drop of fuel that is injected has the proper amount of oil. Plus you lose a little weight in the process.

Out of the 5 or 6 cats engines ive seen go, they all had something in common.... bdx oil delete kit.

These oiling systems are evolving for the better by going electronic. The biggest issue on the older cats was the pos pump sticking open.

BlueDevil · Mar 23, 2017

I never said anything about a bdx delete kit?

sledhed21 · Mar 23, 2017

Which Oil Delete kit you running?

Bluedevil
Which Oil Delete kit you running? I ran BDX on my older
M8 and loved it- no problems at all
I'm interested in what you are running
Thanks

BlueDevil · Mar 23, 2017

Just a block off plate with a grease zerk on it

XFIRE800 · Mar 23, 2017

BlueDevil said:
Just a block off plate with a grease zerk on it

Sorry for adding bdx, its a block off plate. Not relevant. Main point is oil delete doesnt equal reliability. The margin for error is arguably greater with an oil delete.

For the record, i deleted my 13. No issues, just don't see the point now.

powdermuncher · Mar 23, 2017

No sane person can argue the fact that since we have oil injection Failure rates on engines have dropped dramatically.

Not only that, we actually get the right amount of oil as needed by the power setting and save a bundle on oil.

And by the way way less smoke and stuck exhaust valves.

Lets do a reality check here Mixing is the least accurate delivery of oil to your 2 stroke engine.
If you want to keep it light only run enough oil in the tank to have a 1/4 tank oil left after you go through a full tank of gas. My sled can do 3 tanks of gas on one tank of oil. So I run just over halve a tank of oil and it leaves me at 1/3 tank after one full gas tank. Not so hard

Deleting Oil Injection on C-Tec2

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