SHR860 vs RK860

dicey · Nov 3, 2009

TurboJamie said:
So people buy from you based on what exactly a reputation? Prove that the motor makes the power and post a dyno sheet or do you even own a dyno? Still never seen an SHR at dynotech even to be verified. First thing I would look for in a kit. Lets see some proof SHR.

The increase in the bore size cannot account for much HP its a gimmick at best and a costly one when you consider what a good ported motor will make for HP. The 860 is a gimmick.

60cc chain saw thats a good one, something that wouldn't pull a sick whore off a piss pot.

Your not increasing the bore size enough to justify the cost of doing it in the first place.

Post a dyno sheet Champ, also let the guys know all the extra's ontop of that 1995 price.

Another happy customer eh BJ
http://snowest.com/forum/showthread.php?t=176300

Do you own a 860 or 800 ? well i do and beileve me there is huge differance in performance with just the bore and duel rings never mind porting .these are the real deal.as far as dyno# i don't have a clue , but I get holy chit what did you do to that thing from alot of 800 riders and 1000 cat riders and even some pgt riders after they try to follow me or get to my mark, so say what you wan't ,try one then you will actually know what you are talking about.as far as your dyno do you own one? if not why do you trust some phony dyno graph ?I have blown just as much on crap that was dynoed that didn't work as i have stuff that wasn't.go with what you see work or experience. sitting in front of your computer deciding 860 are crap is no match for Big Johns years of experiance ,many big bore kits ,and countless hours of testing.I would be willing to bet he's got a trophy or two to back up what he says ,to me thats better than some crapy dyno sheet.

TurboJamie · Nov 3, 2009

dicey said:
Do you own a 860 or 800 ? well i do and beileve me there is huge differance in performance with just the bore and duel rings never mind porting .these are the real deal.as far as dyno# i don't have a clue , but I get holy chit what did you do to that thing from alot of 800 riders and 1000 cat riders and even some pgt riders after they try to follow me or get to my mark, so say what you wan't ,try one then you will actually know what you are talking about.as far as your dyno do you own one? if not why do you trust some phony dyno graph ?I have blown just as much on crap that was dynoed that didn't work as i have stuff that wasn't.go with what you see work or experience. sitting in front of your computer deciding 860 are crap is no match for Big Johns years of experiance ,many big bore kits ,and countless hours of testing.I would be willing to bet he's got a trophy or two to back up what he says ,to me thats better than some crapy dyno sheet.

BJ's experience ask him how long he has been doing this he was a green horn in 03, he doesn't have near the experience most do that are building kits. He doesn't do the porting work someone else does, what else isn't he doing, oh I know read the thread I posted he's not making power.

dicey · Nov 3, 2009

TurboJamie said:
BJ's experience ask him how long he has been doing this he was a green horn in 03, he doesn't have near the experience most do that are building kits. He doesn't do the porting work someone else does, what else isn't he doing, oh I know read the thread I posted he's not making power.

I don't know BJ and have never purchased anything from him I guess i should have left that part out. my response was more to do with the 60cc overbore does really help and also just to say that dyno graphs don't mean any thing unles you own one and do it to find the truth for yourself .a dyno result can be just as much of a lie as someones word ,real results on the hill or at the track is all that count in my opinion.

TurboJamie · Nov 3, 2009

dicey said:
I don't know BJ and have never purchased anything from him I guess i should have left that part out. my response was more to do with the 60cc overbore does really help and also just to say that dyno graphs don't mean any thing unles you own one and do it to find the truth for yourself .a dyno result can be just as much of a lie as someones word ,real results on the hill or at the track is all that count in my opinion.

I agree however for the most part guys take their stuff to dynotech to prove it. We can't argue that BJ advertises 171 hp lets see the dyno graph with bsfc or AFR etc...

Kelsey as well advertises an additional 9 hp it would be nice to see these dyno runs and know the conditions.

Are they stone cold passes or hot heat soaked runs etc... You get my drift. Lots a dough lets see the results.

Insaneboltrounder/sjohns · Nov 3, 2009

BJ seems to be selling lots of 860s and from what ive heard they are impressive. Doing pretty well for a gimmick id say. If youd rather read hp sheets ( that can say anything you want them to) go buy slps bolton stuff and have 172 hp. They will even provide you with that hunk of paper you seem to think is so freekin important. That way when a 860 goes by you you can whip out that paper and show that rascal that your sled is proven to have 1 hp more than his. Let us know how that goes. sj

dicey · Nov 3, 2009

TurboJamie said:
I agree however for the most part guys take their stuff to dynotech to prove it. We can't argue that BJ advertises 171 hp lets see the dyno graph with bsfc or AFR etc...

Kelsey as well advertises an additional 9 hp it would be nice to see these dyno runs and know the conditions.

Are they stone cold passes or hot heat soaked runs etc... You get my drift. Lots a dough lets see the results.

Kelseys is 9 hp more just because his holyness touched it

BossRev · Nov 3, 2009

TurboJamie said:
BJ's experience ask him how long he has been doing this he was a green horn in 03, he doesn't have near the experience most do that are building kits. He doesn't do the porting work someone else does, what else isn't he doing, oh I know read the thread I posted he's not making power.

So one thread dictates your opinion, WTF ever, 1 guy is complaining, BFD....

I have dealt with BJ since 2005 and have never been mis lead or been given anything less then promised results. If you search the internet (where you obviously get much if not all of your opinion from) you will find maybe 5 peeps who have negative things to say about BJ and 2 of them happen to be OT so he doesn't really count. Out of the 2 or 3 negative threads out there, how many of the issues are the user fault?? People who listen to BJ and follow his suggested setups and stay in contact with him tend to be very happy campers. Plain and simple Dynos don't mean squat. To many variables, bring it to the steep and deep and let the work speak for it's self.

winter brew · Nov 3, 2009

I was getting clutching info from John in 2000. Must have been a different Big John on snowest.

:beer;
Have you ever run any of his stuff or just going off what others say?

BossRev · Nov 3, 2009

turbojamie, since what people say on the internet means so much to you,
here is a thread for you to read.

http://www.snowest.com/forum/showthread.php?t=171655

BIG JOHN · Nov 3, 2009

TurboJamie said:
BJ's experience ask him how long he has been doing this he was a green horn in 03, he doesn't have near the experience most do that are building kits. He doesn't do the porting work someone else does, what else isn't he doing, oh I know read the thread I posted he's not making power.

Wow...you sure have me nailed...didnt DOO 1 thing before 2003...not one...OOOOR-

1988-1989 = stock/ported 650 Indy SKS stuff... (SKS is short for Sno King Special)
1990-1992 = 1998 650 Indy SKS with a SLP RZ700 (150 hp)
1993 = 109 mph 1000' with ported Mach 1X 670
1994 = 670 twin piper in a polaris chassis with one of the FIRST Kimpex 2" paddle tracks
1995 = turbo 670 in a F chassis Summit
1995 = 105 mph 1000' with a stock 1995 Mach 1 (1 mph off world record)
1996= 121 mph in 1000' with a MOD 685 Mach 1X
1997 = 10.42 @ 124 mph with said Mach 1X on the ashphalt
1998= 670/720 BB Summit 141
1999 = 670/740 BB Summit 156
2000 = 670 piston /700 series 3 mod 151 Highmark
2001 = started using chrome "race rings" in the 800's BEFORE most even knew there was a problem...porting/pipes etc...mountain set ups...925 triple S chassis w/162 track
2002 = alot of chassis work/long track summits/clutching/ same engine mods as 2001
2003 = first SHR830HO, Beaver tail delete kit, more 700HO kits, 600HO kits

AGAIN...WHO the H#*% DOO YOU think you are???

-BJ

BTW- I do have whats called "e m p l o y e e s"....and 1 guy makes a bad post (waiting for him to call me to verify its even real) and its all over?? LOL what a tool...just like the other tool on dootalk...why dont you call me and tell me in person ALL that you know about me?? I wont hold my breath...

winter brew · Nov 3, 2009

BIG JOHN said:
Wow...you sure have me nailed...didnt DOO 1 thing before 2003...not one...OOOOR-

1988-1989 = stock/ported 650 Indy SKS stuff... (SKS is short for Sno King Special)
1990-1992 = 1998 650 Indy SKS with a SLP RZ700 (150 hp)
1993 = 109 mph 1000' with ported Mach 1X 670
1994 = 670 twin piper in a polaris chassis with one of the FIRST Kimpex 2" paddle tracks
1995 = turbo 670 in a F chassis Summit
1995 = 105 mph 1000' with a stock 1995 Mach 1 (1 mph off world record)
1996= 121 mph in 1000' with a MOD 685 Mach 1X
1997 = 10.42 @ 124 mph with said Mach 1X on the ashphalt
1998= 670/720 BB Summit 141
1999 = 670/740 BB Summit 156
2000 = 670 piston /700 series 3 mod 151 Highmark
2001 = started using chrome "race rings" in the 800's BEFORE most even knew there was a problem...porting/pipes etc...mountain set ups
2002 = alot of chassis work/long track summits/clutching/ same engine mods as 2001
2003 = first SHR830HO, Beaver tail delete kit, more 700HO kits, 600HO kits

AGAIN...WHO the H#*% DOO YOU think you are??? -BJ

BTW- I do have whats called "e m p l o y e e s"....and 1 guy makes a bad post (waiting for him to call me to verify its even real) and its all over?? LOL what a tool...just like the other tool on dootalk...why dont you call me and tell me in person ALL that you know about me?? I wont hold my breath...

This is meaningless without DYNO SHEETS! :beer;

:beer;
Let me know if you need any, I can print out anything you want.

Insaneboltrounder/sjohns · Nov 3, 2009

Where is Daveb and that crayon???

TurboJamie · Nov 3, 2009

BIG JOHN said:
Wow...you sure have me nailed...didnt DOO 1 thing before 2003...not one...OOOOR-

1988-1989 = stock/ported 650 Indy SKS stuff... (SKS is short for Sno King Special)
1990-1992 = 1998 650 Indy SKS with a SLP RZ700 (150 hp)
1993 = 109 mph 1000' with ported Mach 1X 670
1994 = 670 twin piper in a polaris chassis with one of the FIRST Kimpex 2" paddle tracks
1995 = turbo 670 in a F chassis Summit
1995 = 105 mph 1000' with a stock 1995 Mach 1 (1 mph off world record)
1996= 121 mph in 1000' with a MOD 685 Mach 1X
1997 = 10.42 @ 124 mph with said Mach 1X on the ashphalt
1998= 670/720 BB Summit 141
1999 = 670/740 BB Summit 156
2000 = 670 piston /700 series 3 mod 151 Highmark
2001 = started using chrome "race rings" in the 800's BEFORE most even knew there was a problem...porting/pipes etc...mountain set ups
2002 = alot of chassis work/long track summits/clutching/ same engine mods as 2001
2003 = first SHR830HO, Beaver tail delete kit, more 700HO kits, 600HO kits

AGAIN...WHO the H#*% DOO YOU think you are??? -BJ

BTW- I do have whats called "e m p l o y e e s"....and 1 guy makes a bad post (waiting for him to call me to verify its even real) and its all over?? LOL what a tool...just like the other tool on dootalk...why dont you call me and tell me in person ALL that you know about me?? I wont hold my breath...

BJ do you own a dyno, do you verify your findings at all or just rely on "feedback" and let the so called customers sell for you. Pretty easy to get a few users names going and some cheer leaders. Post your dyno numbers super tuner lets see what the shr 860 does, also lets see it with a heat soaked engine and the bsfc's.

jacks · Nov 3, 2009

Sako7STW said:
Umm Why wouldn't you? Whats wrong with Wiseco? I have used their pistons for years. Not bashing, I would like a real reply because if there is a problem I want to know. I thought the BMP stuff looked pretty good at the snow show?

Good call. Bikeman put alot of thought into getting their own pistons built with stronger piston skirts and extra oil and gas lube holes among other features.

The fact that dynotech confirms bmp's hp on not just the 880 but all kinds of performer kits proves the numbers.

What's next, dynotech is fudging the numbers?

Insaneboltrounder/sjohns · Nov 3, 2009

TurboJamie said:
BJ do you own a dyno, do you verify your findings at all or just rely on "feedback" and let the so called customers sell for you. Pretty easy to get a few users names going and some cheer leaders. Post your dyno numbers super tuner lets see what the shr 860 does, also lets see it with a heat soaked engine and the bsfc's.

Do you have a clue how much a dyno costs , the room in a shop it takes up , the man hours it requires??? Do you think a Shop like Johns is going to spend that kind of cash so that at the end of all thatmoney and work he can tell some snot nosed poser that his sled make "X" amount of horsepower?? When he can just as easily do what he knows works , verify it thru customers and his own riding and not have to spend 30-40 thou on a machine thats going to gather dust and eat up space? Or maybe take a sled with a done motor , leave it jetted like he rode it , have it run at a dyno shop , pay the 300 and gave a good guideline of where he is. Who all has a dyno hotshot , RTK , SLP , E Tech , Arctic Edge , CR racing , BMP?? Think any of them has a dyno?? NOPE ! Do you think Chad at CRacing builds every sled himself ? Do you think lingenfelter built evey motor himself? No , they have employees , subtrades to do work as they want it done. Its called running a shop idiot. Im sure you dig every ditch that you get paid to do ,or you are the one who puts the fries in the bag because you are after all , the fry guy, but then youre a lil special arent you!
" so called customers , cheer leaders"..... = happy customers , repeat customers and the best advertising money can buy , word of mouth.
I can garanfrikintee you that if you walked into SHR's shop with a pocket full of yur Dads cash , John would nicely tell you he is wayyyyy to busy to do your lil motor and then guide you to the front door so he could get back to work on someones motor. Tool........ sj

BIG JOHN · Nov 3, 2009

TurboJamie said:
BJ do you own a dyno, do you verify your findings at all or just rely on "feedback" and let the so called customers sell for you. Pretty easy to get a few users names going and some cheer leaders. Post your dyno numbers super tuner lets see what the shr 860 does, also lets see it with a heat soaked engine and the bsfc's.

171-172 is "heat soaked, pump gas, safe BSFC, 110+ water temp, stock pipe/can/reeds/timing"...

*Why dont YOU "Coop" go back to Green Hulk boat boy website and bash away...it doesnt work here...

WB- I think "nailing JELLO to tree" applies to this guy too...

-BJ

* pretty sure this is the same tool....he wouldnt open his little yap in person...key board jockeys make me laugh...

BIG JOHN · Nov 3, 2009

jacks said:
Good call. Bikeman put alot of thought into getting their own pistons built with stronger piston skirts and extra oil and gas lube holes among other features.

The fact that dynotech confirms bmp's hp on not just the 880 but all kinds of performer kits proves the numbers.

What's next, dynotech is fudging the numbers?

DTR did show 182 hp...

FYI- ANY (BMP pistons are diff/better) 880 motor with the wrist pin cut out 880 pistons should update...as for wiseco's...I'm done with them...period.-BJ

cklinen · Nov 3, 2009

as turbojelly has said in a early post

You don't race dyno's guys, some of the best flat land guys in the biz are running them with huge success. A very well known tuner Billy Howard from Howards inc swares by them even though dynotech did not support the unit. It works in the field sometimes you cannot measure real world gains on a dyno. __________________

WatchThis!!! · Nov 3, 2009

BIG JOHN said:
DTR did show 182 hp...to bad it burned down at the "back in Dacks" shoot out...

Never heard of it? Is it a flatland thing?
It didn't burn down at Yamafest when It was constantly going, climbing, or flying up the Monster? I think not.

NOT bashing against anyone, BUT BJ I'm sure a number of your motors have burnt down/ blown up somewhere with someone. Thats how it is with each and every sled. This might come off cocky or wrong to some but oh well, Its the lack of snow.

Sako7STW · Nov 3, 2009

BIG JOHN said:
Wow...you sure have me nailed...didnt DOO 1 thing before 2003...not one...OOOOR-

1988-1989 = stock/ported 650 Indy SKS stuff... (SKS is short for Sno King Special)
1990-1992 = 1998 650 Indy SKS with a SLP RZ700 (150 hp)
1993 = 109 mph 1000' with ported Mach 1X 670
1994 = 670 twin piper in a polaris chassis with one of the FIRST Kimpex 2" paddle tracks
1995 = turbo 670 in a F chassis Summit
1995 = 105 mph 1000' with a stock 1995 Mach 1 (1 mph off world record)
1996= 121 mph in 1000' with a MOD 685 Mach 1X
1997 = 10.42 @ 124 mph with said Mach 1X on the ashphalt
1998= 670/720 BB Summit 141
1999 = 670/740 BB Summit 156
2000 = 670 piston /700 series 3 mod 151 Highmark
2001 = started using chrome "race rings" in the 800's BEFORE most even knew there was a problem...porting/pipes etc...mountain set ups
2002 = alot of chassis work/long track summits/clutching/ same engine mods as 2001
2003 = first SHR830HO, Beaver tail delete kit, more 700HO kits, 600HO kits

AGAIN...WHO the H#*% DOO YOU think you are??? -BJ

BTW- I do have whats called "e m p l o y e e s"....and 1 guy makes a bad post (waiting for him to call me to verify its even real) and its all over?? LOL what a tool...just like the other tool on dootalk...why dont you call me and tell me in person ALL that you know about me?? I wont hold my breath...

BJ, you forgot one of my all time favorite sleds I have seen on here that you built. That Rev with the 925 triple in it. Seeing how i was riding a 925 at the time!

You said that your done with Wiseco, I would like to hear why as I am going to be buying some pistons for a Poo 800 and want to make a good decision on pistons.

SHR860 vs RK860

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