Electrical problem need help asap !

Midniterider · Jan 1, 2017

So ive posted this on multiple forums and ive gotten no help so im hoping you guys can help me....
I have an 08 iq700 no e start and no battery. My dash cycles on and off constantly now but sometimes it wil stay on as long as i keep the revs high. Maybe around 3000 ish. So i tested my stator voltage and it was oow so i replaced tbat but the problem still persists... Would this be a bad voltage regulator ? The chasis relay was changed last season because of this issue and it helped but maybe for a week or two and thats it.

Also i replaced the stator and its now giving me the correct ac voltage off the yellow wires of 12 to 13 ish at a high ish idle but i went for a ride and my sled started bogging and ultimately died on me. It still sfarts but it bogs and when i use the perc reverse the sled bogs constantly and idles super low almost like i blew a piston. Any ideas on this ?

When i pulled the plugs they were pretty wet so its not leaning out and i have a good compression of about 120 plus on both cylenders.

cowboy181d · Jan 1, 2017

Sounds like a bad vr. What does the dash say for charging bars?

Midniterider · Jan 1, 2017

cowboy181d said:
Sounds like a bad vr. What does the dash say for charging bars?

Any where from nothing up to about 3 from the top... Its on and off every couple of rides it will be full and normal for a bit then go back down to one or two and tben the gauges will start turning off and on again

zalez · Jan 1, 2017

Replace VR and replace capacitor

sledhed · Jan 1, 2017

zalez said:
Replace VR and replace capacitor

What he said. VR would be my first go-to on a problem like this ALWAYS, it is a lot less likely to be the stator, usually the stator is all or nothing... in my experience with my Dragons anyway.

Midniterider · Jan 1, 2017

sledhed said:
What he said. VR would be my first go-to on a problem like this ALWAYS, it is a lot less likely to be the stator, usually the stator is all or nothing... in my experience with my Dragons anyway.

ya but would the vr really cause my sled to bog and my reverse to be all messed up ? just seems weird

Midniterider · Jan 1, 2017

zalez said:
Replace VR and replace capacitor

how could i test to see if the cap is bad ? cause im on a budget and i cant be just replacing things if i dont have to

fastgas · Jan 1, 2017

If you have a voltmeter you can test the capacitor by removing it and placing a 12V battery across the + and - terminals (make sure you don't connect it the wrong way, or it may heat up and become destroyed), next remove the battery and measure the voltage across the capacitor - it should remain close to 12V for a long time (minutes), if you can see the voltage dropping quickly, it's probably bad. Also, before you reinstall it, you should discharge it by placing a resistor across the + and - (like a 10ohm 1/2W, but almost any value will work). Or you can just short it with a screwdriver but be prepared to get a spark (this is another way to determine if the cap is good). You can probably find youtube videos and other info if you search.

Make sure you're running a headlight (also try turning up handwarmers) - the voltage regulator actually works less (less heat) if there's a load since it is a shunt-type regulator, it must dissipate the excess power in order to regulate to 12-14 V, especially at higher rpms. Another thing to try is remove the cap and install a 12V battery in it's place and run it to see if the display remains on, etc. - not a permanent solution since the battery will eventually drain (when sled is off) but something to help diagnose.

Also, seen similar issues with Cats due to the tailight wiring shorting to the frame and loose main ground connection.

Midniterider · Jan 1, 2017

fastgas said:
If you have a voltmeter you can test the capacitor by removing it and placing a 12V battery across the + and - terminals (make sure you don't connect it the wrong way, or it may heat up and become destroyed), next remove the battery and measure the voltage across the capacitor - it should remain close to 12V for a long time (minutes), if you can see the voltage dropping quickly, it's probably bad. Also, before you reinstall it, you should discharge it by placing a resistor across the + and - (like a 10ohm 1/2W, but almost any value will work). Or you can just short it with a screwdriver but be prepared to get a spark (this is another way to determine if the cap is good). You can probably find youtube videos and other info if you search.

Make sure you're running a headlight (also try turning up handwarmers) - the voltage regulator actually works less (less heat) if there's a load since it is a shunt-type regulator, it must dissipate the excess power in order to regulate to 12-14 V, especially at higher rpms. Another thing to try is remove the cap and install a 12V battery in it's place and run it to see if the display remains on, etc. - not a permanent solution since the battery will eventually drain (when sled is off) but something to help diagnose.

Also, seen similar issues with Cats due to the tailight wiring shorting to the frame and loose main ground connection.

sounds good thanks will test it tommorrow... but what exactly does the cap do in the system ?

fastgas · Jan 1, 2017

The capacitor helps smooth the DC voltage out. The magneto generates AC voltage which will get higher (and faster) with rpm. Inside the voltage regulator is a rectifier (4 diodes) that converts the negative voltages to become positive. There is a device (SCR) that will intermittently short this waveform to ground in order to regulate the output in order to get an average voltage - but this voltage is extremely 'dirty' and full of spikes so the capacitor absorbs these spikes and smooths them out. A couple of things to note - most older non-efi sleds don't use a capacitor (since lights and handwarmers don't care about these spikes), on efi sleds the voltage going to the lights and handwarmers don't use the capacitor - only the voltage going to the fuel pump, accessories, power valves, etc. use this capacitor voltage, and I seem to remember (probably on Cats) the voltage to the cap is only half-rectified (still get 12V but only 1/2 the power). When the regulator goes out on a Cat (usually due to overloading because of no lights), it quickly takes the ECU out. This can also happen on a Polaris, but more often it's due to faulty connectors, but bad voltage regulators were common issues for a few years (although by '10 or maybe '11 they were less common?).

Just noticed you have an 08, so definitely check the VR - usually they get excessively hot (can burn yourself so be careful) when they start to go, which could eventually cause the stator coil to overheat and fail... If you can find a voltage regulator, set it to DC and test voltage with sled running, probably have to rev it a little to get to 12V (but not over 15V), should idle above 10V, if less then 8V or doesn't come up with revs you have an issue. Next change it voltmeter to AC setting and it should be less than about 1.0V, if more (like 5-10V), then regulator (diodes) and/or capacitor is bad.

zalez · Jan 2, 2017

So I would start with a new VR. Do not operate on your current VR or the likelihood of taking out your ecu is high. If you are on a budget, this is the wrong sled for you. I have the same sled (dragon), same engine, same year, and this year is my 3rd voltage regulator. When your new voltage regulator goes out, it will leave you stranded. Polaris put in a fail-safe that kills the engine instead of burning up the ecu. I have a nice youtube video of being pulled off the mountain lol. I now carry a spare.

mountainhorse · Jan 2, 2017

Also...Do you have any loads that have been disconnected or changed.. like a headlight delete or burned out bulbs?... or loads that have been added to the system.

Also...Double check your ground wire bundles and the ground connection to the frame... remove it... clean the terminal and the chassis and give it a good coating of Dielectric grease.

Then check the clear colored stator connector to the harness for any burning or corrosion and correct if necessary.

I agree with the above comments.... sounds like your VR.... which will cause erratic operation of the ECU and motor... and could take out your ECU easily if bad.

.

mountainhorse · Jan 2, 2017

With all of this electrical testing going on... good idea to check the function of the TPS.

Midniterider · Jan 2, 2017

fastgas said:
The capacitor helps smooth the DC voltage out. The magneto generates AC voltage which will get higher (and faster) with rpm. Inside the voltage regulator is a rectifier (4 diodes) that converts the negative voltages to become positive. There is a device (SCR) that will intermittently short this waveform to ground in order to regulate the output in order to get an average voltage - but this voltage is extremely 'dirty' and full of spikes so the capacitor absorbs these spikes and smooths them out. A couple of things to note - most older non-efi sleds don't use a capacitor (since lights and handwarmers don't care about these spikes), on efi sleds the voltage going to the lights and handwarmers don't use the capacitor - only the voltage going to the fuel pump, accessories, power valves, etc. use this capacitor voltage, and I seem to remember (probably on Cats) the voltage to the cap is only half-rectified (still get 12V but only 1/2 the power). When the regulator goes out on a Cat (usually due to overloading because of no lights), it quickly takes the ECU out. This can also happen on a Polaris, but more often it's due to faulty connectors, but bad voltage regulators were common issues for a few years (although by '10 or maybe '11 they were less common?).

Just noticed you have an 08, so definitely check the VR - usually they get excessively hot (can burn yourself so be careful) when they start to go, which could eventually cause the stator coil to overheat and fail... If you can find a voltage regulator, set it to DC and test voltage with sled running, probably have to rev it a little to get to 12V (but not over 15V), should idle above 10V, if less then 8V or doesn't come up with revs you have an issue. Next change it voltmeter to AC setting and it should be less than about 1.0V, if more (like 5-10V), then regulator (diodes) and/or capacitor is bad.

zalez said:
So I would start with a new VR. Do not operate on your current VR or the likelihood of taking out your ecu is high. If you are on a budget, this is the wrong sled for you. I have the same sled (dragon), same engine, same year, and this year is my 3rd voltage regulator. When your new voltage regulator goes out, it will leave you stranded. Polaris put in a fail-safe that kills the engine instead of burning up the ecu. I have a nice youtube video of being pulled off the mountain lol. I now carry a spare.

mountainhorse said:
Also...Do you have any loads that have been disconnected or changed.. like a headlight delete or burned out bulbs?... or loads that have been added to the system.

Also...Double check your ground wire bundles and the ground connection to the frame... remove it... clean the terminal and the chassis and give it a good coating of Dielectric grease.

Then check the clear colored stator connector to the harness for any burning or corrosion and correct if necessary.

I agree with the above comments.... sounds like your VR.... which will cause erratic operation of the ECU and motor... and could take out your ECU easily if bad.

.

ok thanks guys, hooked up the cap to my truck battery and it held the 12v for a long time.... it would go down .1 volts maybe every couple of seconds so thats fine, re ohm tested all the connections on my new stator everyhting is good there, tok out the ecu and no burns or bubbles so thats good. tried to test the voltage reg and wasnt geting anything for ohms on any combo of connections listed in the shop manual to test so im gonna let it warm up to the recommended 20 c and test again to make sure.

for all the other questions- no new loads or loads taken off, all lights are good and my handwarmers are almost always on.

for the polaris fail safe for the volt reg i think i encountered that yesterday when my sled kept dying on me and now wont run properly and keeps bogging (im guessing it cuts spark ?) so far it looks like ill be ordering a volt reg on wednsday when the Polaris shop opens up... thanks so much for all the help honestly this forum is amazing compared tot he others i was on ! il try to keep this updated on whats going on for others that might have this issue or if replacing the voltage reg doesnt help :/

Midniterider · Jan 2, 2017

does anyone know the part number for the updated voltage reg ? or which volatge reg number is the better one ? my current one is the 4011731

zalez · Jan 2, 2017

The one I just got was 4013587. This is for 08 dragon 700. Ordered mine for $170 from dirtcheapsnow. They have the oem lookup catalog as do most other sites.

Midniterider · Jan 2, 2017

zalez said:
The one I just got was 4013587. This is for 08 dragon 700. Ordered mine for $170 from dirtcheapsnow. They have the oem lookup catalog as do most other sites.

is that the one that keeps dying ? cause if so ill try to steer clear of that one lol. my dad works a Polaris dealer so i can get a discount on parts if i buy there, but their not open till Wednesday so i cant ask any questions until then

Midniterider · Jan 2, 2017

bad news, voltage regulator checks out fine (using diode check as per service manual) so its not that, so stator, and voltage reg are fine is there anything else that could cause it ?

mountainhorse · Jan 2, 2017

a fried ECU.

.

Midniterider · Jan 2, 2017

mountainhorse said:
a fried ECU.

.

BUT WHAT WOULD FRY MY ECU ? and why would my ecu cause my headlights to flicker ?
sory caps lock
and how could i tell ? cause theres no burns or bubbles anywhere on the ecu

Electrical problem need help asap !

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