2019 to 2020 HP difference ?
- Thread starter wally1
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Won't know until the snow flies. Claiming it competes in the 165 hp class.
I don't think any more horsepower with the updates. The primary focus is getting more oil to the crank via new cylinder design as well as meeting some European emissions standards. More efficient, better oiling of the crank, stronger pistons, and better reliability is what I am being told.
B
I heard that as well. But also was told that they squeezed another 5 hp out of it. Now will you notice/ is it true who knows. Once the sleds get on a few dynos and into the consumers hands, we will know if there is any more noticeable power over the 18/19. For me I think the ctec runs hard and does what I want it to do. But extra reliability to keep the crown after the zukes I am all for!!
Can the Ctec2's have the oiling adjusted? I realize they're electronic injection.
In the Etec world, each pump is flow tested at the factory and assigned a calibration number. Let's say a pump get's a calibration number of 5, the sled it is installed in has the ECM set to oiling setting 5. Presumably this tells the ECM to send X amount of voltage to the oil pump to achieve the specified oil flow rate, enabling each sled to get very close to the same oiling regardless of tolerance differences within each pump (electric motor or pump mechanism). Now the good part of this is that with the dealer programmer (BUDS), that oiling calibration # in the ECM can be tweaked to get more oil flow from the same pump. Basically you tell the ECM the pump is one of the less efficient ones, and it needs extra voltage to compensate. Nets you more oil to help longevity. Not necessary needed, but it is an option useful for a sled that gets worked over, turbo'd, or big bored. Premix isn't so effective on the etec 800's because the injector can only inject on top of the piston.
Is there anything like this in the Ctec2? They sound awfully lean on oil and with a 1 year warranty, extra oil might be worthwhile. I suppose a little premix works on the Ctec due to the way the injection occurs, so maybe hacking the ECM is pointless. Just thinking out loud I guess.
Thanks for the info on the reliability improvements Racin Station. I thought that might be the case, but knew Cat would never come out and say it themselves..
In the Etec world, each pump is flow tested at the factory and assigned a calibration number. Let's say a pump get's a calibration number of 5, the sled it is installed in has the ECM set to oiling setting 5. Presumably this tells the ECM to send X amount of voltage to the oil pump to achieve the specified oil flow rate, enabling each sled to get very close to the same oiling regardless of tolerance differences within each pump (electric motor or pump mechanism). Now the good part of this is that with the dealer programmer (BUDS), that oiling calibration # in the ECM can be tweaked to get more oil flow from the same pump. Basically you tell the ECM the pump is one of the less efficient ones, and it needs extra voltage to compensate. Nets you more oil to help longevity. Not necessary needed, but it is an option useful for a sled that gets worked over, turbo'd, or big bored. Premix isn't so effective on the etec 800's because the injector can only inject on top of the piston.
Is there anything like this in the Ctec2? They sound awfully lean on oil and with a 1 year warranty, extra oil might be worthwhile. I suppose a little premix works on the Ctec due to the way the injection occurs, so maybe hacking the ECM is pointless. Just thinking out loud I guess.
Thanks for the info on the reliability improvements Racin Station. I thought that might be the case, but knew Cat would never come out and say it themselves..
we probably wont know until these machines get shipped out and companies like BMP, Speedwerx, etc. get their hands on them
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How much oil are you guys adding to each tank of fuel?
I know Silber has claimed to adjust the oil on their turbo ECU flash so more oil is injected. I’ve never heard of anyone but doo being able to do it on the dealer level. Wonder if the Silber or precision ECU flash for normally aspirated motors adjusts the oil.
I would say anyone who has capability to reflash ecu has full access to change what they please.
The oiling issue is not the amount of oil that is being injected into the system. It is the amount that is getting to the crank that is being altered. This has been accomplished through a different piston and injection design.
Only on the turbo flash I've had both I have the naturally-aspirated flash right now and it routinely runs between 50 and 70 to 1
haven't thought about this in years.
so ur technically saying adding oil to the gas won't directly get to the crank bc these ctechs are direct injection (ie gas and oik are pumped into cylinders directly) ..is there a pump that injects the oil into the crank for lubes there?
or corrections to above would be appreciated
No, that is not what I am saying.
On a two stroke, I should just say fuel because fuel/oil mix is the fuel. Rich or lean would be the amount of oil particles in relation to fuel particles.
What I am saying is more related to getting more of a fuel/oil charge to the bottom end, not just oil.
On a two stroke, I should just say fuel because fuel/oil mix is the fuel. Rich or lean would be the amount of oil particles in relation to fuel particles.
What I am saying is more related to getting more of a fuel/oil charge to the bottom end, not just oil.
My guess on the power of the 20’ c-Tex is that cat will wait until the snow check is over and people have laid down money and committed to buy. When we will find out it’s the same hp as the 18/19 motor. I really hope it’s in the “165 hp class”, but highly doubt it.
Being that cat is advertising the 165hp class on their website and first Gen ctec was rated in the 160hp class. If the new motor doesn’t make more ponies then cat will be under some scrutiny for a while.
Putting that much into this update; Time, Resources, EPA Approval, Money....It would be somewhat of a waste, or at a minimum, a missed opportunity, If Cat couldn’t make more power with their changes, especially when you are at the bottom of the class in HP and Displacement (This is just reality, I’m a Cat loyal guy, but it’s the truth)
It certainly may not have been their priority to make more power with the changes, but it would make sense to tweak the mapping and maybe a couple other subtle changes to truly get this into the 165 class of HP. Just saying/printing you sled is 165 class and keeping it at 155 ish would be bad for the brand.
I will say the 2020 Riot I rode pulled hard, transferred well, skis were no problem to get up in the air, so if that was the “old” motor with new mapping I would be happy with it. My test ride gives me hope that the 2020 sleds will be even better. I have been happy with my 18 M8000 Early Release, and the ER Mapping on my sled. Hope 2020 is a great year for Cat.
It certainly may not have been their priority to make more power with the changes, but it would make sense to tweak the mapping and maybe a couple other subtle changes to truly get this into the 165 class of HP. Just saying/printing you sled is 165 class and keeping it at 155 ish would be bad for the brand.
I will say the 2020 Riot I rode pulled hard, transferred well, skis were no problem to get up in the air, so if that was the “old” motor with new mapping I would be happy with it. My test ride gives me hope that the 2020 sleds will be even better. I have been happy with my 18 M8000 Early Release, and the ER Mapping on my sled. Hope 2020 is a great year for Cat.
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It seems too many people get hung up on HP numbers throughout the motorsports industry (not just snowmobiles). I get it that HP sells, but the real test is how it puts that power to the ground, which is more than just HP.
Many, many factors go into this including suspension, track, hp/torque curve and how/when it makes the most power, etc...
HP marketing sells, but I'm more than happy w/my 19 MC and it keeps up with nearly any sled, and what I can't keep up with is nearly ALWAYS the rider, not the sled.
As stretched as these 800's are with current HP and reports of ECU re-flash to adjust A/F ratios, etc...I don't think I'd want the extra 5HP if it is extremely detrimental to the longevity of the engine.
These threads are always enjoyable reading though.
Just my $.02
Many, many factors go into this including suspension, track, hp/torque curve and how/when it makes the most power, etc...
HP marketing sells, but I'm more than happy w/my 19 MC and it keeps up with nearly any sled, and what I can't keep up with is nearly ALWAYS the rider, not the sled.
As stretched as these 800's are with current HP and reports of ECU re-flash to adjust A/F ratios, etc...I don't think I'd want the extra 5HP if it is extremely detrimental to the longevity of the engine.
These threads are always enjoyable reading though.
Just my $.02
You make a very valid point. It takes a pretty good rider on a doo or pol 850 to out ride an slpha.
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We all want reliability...riders and the manufacturer.
I am quite sure no one likes to spend upwards of $16,000 for a toy that craters.
I am quite sure no one likes to spend upwards of $16,000 for a toy that craters.
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