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Arctic Cat: M Series 2005-Current, all models in the M-series chassis
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Old 12-07-2017, 03:49 AM
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Default 2009 M5 stump-ed

This last summer I purchased this dead sled, owner said it hadn't been run in 6 years. 192hrs on the engine, and just shy of 5000km. Looked it over and it was nothing short of a minor disaster. The right ski was worn clean thru the wearbar/ski and the spindle was being pushed along the ground. Both skis were in this shape, hadn't looked like the wear bars had been ever changed. The whole front suspension assembly was eventually replaced as bonking it along the ground rotated the spindles and wrecked the control arms. One shock was bent. Replaced with 2nd hand fox floats. The nose of the sled was smashed to ****, and was covered up by a skid-plate. Replaced it. The original track looked ripped to shreds. hi-fax was right down to the line and a bent wheel. Replaced those. Kept the 141 and the 1.5inch lug. Figured it suitable for power of the sled. The hood was held together by zip-ties from a wreck, and the handlebars had been changed out to a pro-taper set (came from a motorcycle), no warmers. Replaced the hood and the bars back to stock. Someone had washed the headlights with acetone and the engine bay was full of pine needles. The rear grab bar was missing entirely, (replaced it with a straight bar) along with a suitable snow-flap. No windshield came with it, All the decals had been stripped off of it and the seat was missing presumed dead.

No stranger to fixing things up. Haddn't worked on sleds in 15 years and recovering from a near fatal traffic accident left me with some time on my hands. Not a special sled, though I kind of like the early M-series sleds, and knowing that bigger power is a drop in over summer project. (600 - 800) Took it home and began the slow methodical process of finding parts, checking and replacing what was either out of spec, after learning how to get specs and most things faulty or just trashed got replaced.

I've been thru this sled, front to back. I have a full 2009 repair manual, parts manual and owners manual. I have full tools as I was a HD mechanic for 10 years previous. Sourced MOST my parts from ebay (2nd hand stuff) but they were certified AC parts just at diecent prices and I have 'almost' returned it to her former glory.

All sensors/generators within ohm/voltage spec. Strong water pump, and clutching is presumed good. No problems with the Diamond drive, reverse works fine, oil came out clear.

I have an interesting presumed ECU-CCU-and or Electrical related problem. Before people start referencing the manual. I have put hundreds of hours into repairing this sled, in and out the manual lots. I have been over countless web-pages and sites looking for ANY information that could lead me to sorting out what the *&^% is wrong with this engine. Nothing on this ride has been rushed, no corners cut. I'm not the type to throw money at a problem unless its been ruled out. I tried my best to return the C5 to STOCK, PLUS improvements. I have schematics for the electrical system and I have gone thru the harness myself, as well as checked and cleared EVERY sensor that exists on the engine.

The engine 120psi compression tested. It has new reeds.

It starts fine. 1710Rpm idle when warmed up. TPS set at .709V idle. No codes. When I bump the throttle it responds like you would expect it to, however after about 4 seconds It goes from a peppy engine to a serious power loss/bog gonna die engine. I have to stop, let go the throttle and let the sled collect itself, then it will only go 5 feet or so before powering out again. If I smash the throttle the sled dies. Starts right up afterward and the same thing continues.

When it starts cold, it sounds to be running on one cyl, always PTO side. Until the engine warms up then the other side kicks in, it seems. When I took the intake side of the engine apart initially I found allot of 2 stroke oil in the air-box. Suspecting a faulty oil pump, I replaced it and synced it properly. Throttle cable has been replaced and the throttlebody/butterflies are adjusted to spec.

I have no clue what is causing this power drain, and its frustrating me as I am SURE its something I have overlooked. The computer is saying NOTHING is wrong.. yet.. its clearly not preforming how it should be. I feel like an idiot for thinking of taking it to a dealer for repair, considering my trade.. But I am out of ideas and its not a Caterpillar, Cummins or Detroit problem.

When I say I have checked everything, I mean it. What could it be. It sounds like its not getting enough fuel.. OR its getting to much. I dunno. I am thinking of getting the injectors thru a leak-down test as there's no visible filter on the fuel line, and I suspect they are plugged up, OR jammed open. HOW do I tackle this on such tiny injectors. Is there a way I can do it @ home on the bench. Thanks in advance for any additional suggestions.

When I pull the plugs.. the PTO one is always allot wetter and darker then the mag side.
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Old 12-07-2017, 07:53 AM
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Check fuel pressure yet? Pull the fuel rail off and check the screens on the injectors. No rips or tears in the reed cages where it could suck air?


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Old 12-07-2017, 09:12 AM
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un plug the TSS (throttle safety switch) this is the little switch located at the pivot point on the throttle. the pin hits this switch as you move the throttle. if the cable is too tight or the micro switch has corrosion on it you will get what you described.
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Old 12-07-2017, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by JoeySlushr View Post
Check fuel pressure yet? Pull the fuel rail off and check the screens on the injectors. No rips or tears in the reed cages where it could suck air?
I will do this and report back "the injector screens". As for the reed cages, they have been thoroughly inspected and checked for any problems. Reeds are new factory replacements, and new paper gascuts. Straight as an arrow, no chips, or roughness all seal as they should.

kiliki, I did check weather or not that little tss was functioning, and its wired NC side of the 2 position switch (black and red). Throttle cable is set to 1/8th gap and both the throttle body and oiler are set and synced. Continuity when its open, none when closed. However, I didn't just unplug it and try the sled again. I checked it, then plugged it back in and gave it another try. I have a spare from another set of grips. I will give this a shot tonight and see what happens.

Is their any reason to have a Tss in there anyways, or is it redundant.. Tss was in my carbed sled to prevent crazy **** from happening when the slider hung in the bore.. If I can eliminate any of these erroneous switches I am for that. Thanks guys.
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Old 12-07-2017, 10:33 AM
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.

Is their any reason to have a Tss in there anyways, or is it redundant.. Tss was in my carbed sled to prevent crazy **** from happening when the slider hung in the bore.. If I can eliminate any of these erroneous switches I am for that. Thanks guys.
only for it freezing open. i just cut one of the wires off the switch and tape it off. then add a tether.
you can check it with a meter but you need to have it 5 ohms or less and in the sweep check for it to jump around.

i have also seen a few of the pickups on the ignition circuit go bad. you can test them at the point they come out of the case by the recoil. the smaller plugs should be 2.

you did dump the fuel and flush the tank right? use a hanger and pull the fuel line in the tank up and inspect it for cracks along with the smart valves. you can undo the fuel pump just to the r of the steering post with just one nut and 1 plug (black and red wire) and pull it all out of the tank if needed.

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https://support.countrycat.com/?taxo...7c&feed=recent

Last edited by kiliki; 12-07-2017 at 10:45 AM.
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Old 12-07-2017, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by kiliki View Post
only for it freezing open. i just cut one of the wires off the switch and tape it off. then add a tether.
you can check it with a meter but you need to have it 5 ohms or less and in the sweep check for it to jump around.
-I was thinking that adding a tether would remove the need for a tss. Good, I shall do this, I have one in the mail as we write. As for the OHM check 'good' info, into my notes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kiliki View Post
i have also seen a few of the pickups on the ignition circuit go bad. you can test them at the point they come out of the case by the recoil. the smaller plugs should be 2.
As in 2 OHM.. I gather. Ok. I did check the entire magneto back in august when I went thru the engine and its probably more then likely that something happened to it between then and now. Understanding that reducing the amount of 'false economy' is the goal for me and this sled here. I will check the mag again thru using the write-up in the 2009 service manual. If its dodgy, I will replace the whole shebang.. crank sensors, pull rope and all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kiliki View Post
You did dump the fuel and flush the tank right? use a hanger and pull the fuel line in the tank up and inspect it for cracks along with the smart valves. you can undo the fuel pump just to the r of the steering post with just one nut and 1 plug (black and red wire) and pull it all out of the tank if needed.
One of the first things I did Kel was get rid of that old stank gas and water in the tank and clean the tank spotless. However I didn't have the fuel pump/works out of the tank. Initially I used it to bilge the tank, then STOPPED realizing I risked put all that **** thru the pump. I dumped the rest out by hand. I looked at the screens in the pickup with a flashlight and I didn't see any OBVIOUS damage, but I didn't get my HANDS on them and inspect closely. I will pull the fuel pump tonight and yard it out of there and look for cracks.

Update: Okay, I split the throttle quadrant and disconnected the micro-switch. Put it together, and fired it up. I let it warm up then proceeded to do my little circuit loop. It went further then it ever went, and managed to punch it a few times.. what a machine.. but around the far side of the loop it started to howl as before, only NOT as severe. So +1 on that micro switch Bud. Thank you. Not the entire solution but definitely a step in the right direction.

I have the heat on in the garage, so after I finish writing this, it should be cool enough to take the muffler off to get to the fuel tank, and the fuel rail.

I think Joey's advice combined with your advice concerning the fuel pickup is on the right track. Fuel system needs a very close inspection. I do NOT have a pressure gauge, but when the RPM picks up, I can watch the fuel line try to straighten out or flex, not an accurate reading I know. I will try and locate a fuel pressure setup to borrow. I noticed that the in-tank-pump has a built in return and not a looped return with a regulator on rail like a conventional EFI system. Odd to me. Like chinzy odd. Not the way I would do it but whatever.

On last note. The pump in the tank when running just seems to spray the return fuel all over the place.. like a.. sprinkler and I have no idea if that's even normal.. Looks wack to me.. but like I said I am new to Sled EFI and I have seen pumps with internal pressure reliefs, just not one so.. flamboyant I guess.. I will update as I get crap pulled apart.

Thanks again for helping me with this. Back to work.
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Old 12-07-2017, 09:23 PM
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Maybe I missed something here and I am sorry if I did but your title says 2009 M5. You seem pretty sure that it is a 2009 and if so it is not an M5 and does not have a 500 engine. If it is an EFI and a 500 it is a 2006.
May not make much difference as the early "M" sleds had a lot of parts and "issues" in common. Just thinking that if the sled had the wrong engine in the chassis you could have an ECU mismatch.

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Old 12-07-2017, 10:09 PM
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Have you pullled the injectors out and checked to see if they are plugged? You can pull one out at a time and pull the rope to see if they spray fuel good. If they don’t, look on YouTube “fuel injector cleaning” and you can find some good articles on how to clean your injectors.
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Old 12-08-2017, 01:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Firetrail View Post
Maybe I missed something here and I am sorry if I did but your title says 2009 M5. You seem pretty sure that it is a 2009 and if so it is not an M5 and does not have a 500 engine. If it is an EFI and a 500 it is a 2006.
May not make much difference as the early "M" sleds had a lot of parts and "issues" in common. Just thinking that if the sled had the wrong engine in the chassis you could have an ECU mismatch.
You sir are most certianly correct. It is a 2009 'C'5 not an 'M'5
141 track liquid cooled EFI and blacker then the inside of a cow.


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Old 12-08-2017, 02:19 AM
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Old 12-08-2017, 12:35 PM
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Old 12-08-2017, 03:16 PM
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Old 12-08-2017, 09:02 PM
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