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Possible Bridger-Teton Snowmobile Restrictions

TreewellDweller

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Well, are you folks in Wyoming ready to give up your snowmobiles and go back to snowshoes and dog sleds?
Winter Wildland Alliance has filed a lawsuit against the Payette and Boise National Forests of Idaho and the Bridger-Teton National Forest of Wyoming in regards to their winter travel plans and the Alliance's version of endangered species.
Just read through the article on their "Latest from the WWA Policy Desk" on their website.
https://winterwildlands.org/the-latest-from-the-wwa-policy-desk/
To my knowledge, the ISSA, Idaho State Snowmobile Association, is the only organization that has stood up to them. They are presently considering their options but funding is going to be needed to pay the attorneys. I don't know if Blue Ribbon Coalition will get involved, or not. Contact both of them and find out. If you do nothing you will get just that, nothing. No where to go and no place to ride.
Just thought you should know what is going on.
 

Wintertime

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Who would be the contact on this to send info to?
I looked at there site Yep a bunch of Bunny Huggers. What happened to sharing the land and not letting only one group use it? its called public land for a reason. Force in numbers is the only way to stop them.
 

Dogmeat

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Thats the first I've heard of it, but I'm pretty sure some folks from the WSSA will be involved.
 

TreewellDweller

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I have heard that the president of the WSSA has been informed of and received a copy of the lawsuit. Sounds like you might need to contact him and get his take on it.
If we want to maintain access like we have experienced in the past, we will need to be determined in our fight.
 

TreewellDweller

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There is an article pertaining to the Idaho portions of this lawsuit that can be found in the "NEWS" button in the header of this web page. I have also attached a file that contains this article.
This is one lawsuit that encompasses 3 different National Forests, in Idaho and Wyoming. Whoever fights for one, fights for all three. Please consider donating to the Idaho State Snowmobile Association's Legal Fund. It is going to take a lot of $ to defend our areas.
 

Attachments

  • SnoWest Letter 9-17.pdf
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Dogmeat

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Long shot, but what if we, the OHV crowd of the nation, drafted a letter to Mr. Trump? Think he'd take up our cause?
 

TreewellDweller

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If we lose on this lawsuit, all other national forests will have to follow suit and they will be closed to snowmobiling except for what trails they will allow us on. There will be no need for a "mountain sled", just a "trail sled".
The Idaho State Snowmobile Association, http://www.idahosnow.org/ ,has updated their website and now has a PayPal Account to their "Sled Warrior" legal fund. You can find the link halfway down the homepage. 100% of all funds in this account is used for legal fees. We have a huge battle ahead of us and any donation would be appreciated. Please share this with your riding buddies.
If the Wyoming State Snowmobile Association is going to be involved it would be nice to hear about it. We all need to be involved.
 

Dogmeat

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If we lose on this lawsuit, all other national forests will have to follow suit and they will be closed to snowmobiling except for what trails they will allow us on. There will be no need for a "mountain sled", just a "trail sled".
The Idaho State Snowmobile Association, http://www.idahosnow.org/ ,has updated their website and now has a PayPal Account to their "Sled Warrior" legal fund. You can find the link halfway down the homepage. 100% of all funds in this account is used for legal fees. We have a huge battle ahead of us and any donation would be appreciated. Please share this with your riding buddies.
If the Wyoming State Snowmobile Association is going to be involved it would be nice to hear about it. We all need to be involved.

Donation made. Thanks for sharing that.
 

Wintertime

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I see Black Diamond on there who makes Peips Avalanche beacons guess its BCA or others. I wasn't surprised to see REI They are a bunch of Bunny Huggers.
 

Wintertime

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An Open Letter to the Snowmobile Community


Re: Boise, Payette and Bridger-Teton National Forest litigation
Dear Fellow Winter Enthusiasts,
I understand many of you are upset with Winter Wildlands Alliance right now. I also understand the catalyst for your anger is a recent round of alerts from the Idaho State Snowmobile Association and American Council of Snowmobile Associations warning that Winter Wildlands is attacking snowmobiling on the Boise, Payette and Bridger-Teton National Forests through a frivolous lawsuit.
A few of you have reached out directly demanding explanation. Thank you. We’re glad for the opportunity for dialogue. I appreciate and respect your passion for snowmobiling and for winter outdoors. I share your passion for winter and public lands, and I think I understand your anger. I’d be mad as hell if I thought someone was trying to shut me out of my public lands or keep me from doing what I love in a responsible way. The privilege of adventuring into our wild snow-covered landscapes is one I hold dear and I’m here to tell you, despite what you’re hearing from certain leaders in the snowmobile industry, Winter Wildlands has no interest in denying that privilege to anyone.
2014-03-30-Castle_Yurt_TB-009-2-300x200.jpg
Mark Menlove and his family using sleds to access a backcountry yurt on the Uinta-Wasatch-Cache National Forest. Photo by Troy Boman.

Many Winter Wildlands members enjoy riding snowmobiles, either as part of their ski day or as another way to have fun in the snow. I myself have hundreds of hours on a sled. My family had snowmobiles growing up (though those old blue SnoJets were a far cry from today’s machines) and just before coming on board with Winter Wildlands Alliance I spent three winters commuting daily by snowmobile to and from a remote cabin where my family and I lived.
I still use a snowmobile on occasion to access backcountry huts and remote trailheads, and I know from experience I can always find common ground with a fellow winter enthusiast. I also know if I make the effort I can find mutual understanding of other perspectives and mutual respect for those who share my passion for winter. Invariably I find far more that unites us in our shared love of winter than anything that might divide us. In an effort toward understanding and respect, I hope you will hear me out in response to the recent alerts.
First, in regard to the litigation we recently filed, here’s the backstory and intent: In 2015 the Forest Service issued a regulation known as the Over-Snow Vehicle Rule directing each national forest unit that receives regular snowfall to gather public input, analyze current conditions and uses, and then based on that information determine which areas on the forest should be designated as open to snowmachines. The rule includes a passage known as the grandfathering clause that allows forests to carry prior designations into a new winter travel plan if those decisions originally included public input and also meet the rule’s criteria requiring that open areas be located in a way that minimizes impacts to natural resources, wildlife and other recreational uses.
The point of the lawsuit is to ensure that ALL stakeholders have an opportunity to provide input into how each forest manages winter use.
Three forests – the Boise, Payette and a portion of the Bridger-Teton – are interpreting the grandfathering clause to mean they can simply add a sticker to their current winter travel maps, in each case a hodgepodge of piecemeal decisions going back as far as the 1970s, and call it their new winter travel plan. No chance for public comment, no analysis of current conditions, just a rubber stamp that says they’re done. Incidentally, these three are the only forests in the nation attempting this approach. We don’t agree with their interpretation, we’ve taken our concerns directly to each forest to no avail, and now we’re asking the court to clarify the intent of the grandfathering clause.
The point of the lawsuit is to ensure that ALL stakeholders – snowmobilers, skiers and those of us who are both – have an opportunity to provide input into how each forest manages winter use. If forests just cement the status quo then we all lose the opportunity for intentional, balanced planning that will affect future recreation on public lands for years to come. We all know the backcountry is becoming more crowded each winter, with more of us using new technologies, both motorized and non-motorized, to venture out into our favorite places. Thoughtful planning with input from all of us will ensure we can all continue to enjoy our shared public lands in the future.
IMG_4096-300x225.jpg
Winter Wildlands staff get ready for the approach to the Hellroaring Hut in Montana’s Centennial Mountains – 7 miles of snowmobiling followed by 3 miles of skiing.

We don’t take litigation lightly. We do understand it’s sometimes necessary as a last resort—when the feds aren’t listening. In the 17 years since Winter Wildlands Alliance was formed this is the fourth lawsuit we’ve filed against the Forest Service. Official snowmobile organizations have a similar track record as evidenced by the Idaho State Snowmobile Association’s recent lawsuit against the Clearwater National Forest and its lawsuit against the Kootenai/Idaho-Panhandle National Forest.
I don’t fault snowmobile organizations for turning to litigation when they disagree with actions taken by federal agencies. Petitioning the courts for clarification over government action is a right as fundamental to a working democracy as the right to free speech or the right to vote. I for one am deeply grateful we all have the opportunity to exercise that right. And for better or worse, in our great democracy, this is sometimes the only way to be sure things are done properly.
As to the broader claims that Winter Wildlands Alliance is out to eliminate snowmobiling or that we think we should have our kind of recreation but you shouldn’t have yours, let me be crystal clear: that is not true. Yes, we do advocate for balanced planning and management of our public lands to provide for some protected and accessible areas for quiet winter recreation – as just one component of public lands use in a range of other opportunities. That’s our mission. But that doesn’t mean we advocate against snowmobiles. We don’t.
It might be helpful to put those accusations in context: The alert from the Idaho State Snowmobile Association that ignited this round of anger toward Winter Wildlands is a fundraising appeal. I understand the need for fundraising in any organization but it’s disappointing to see some leaders in the snowmobile industry stoop to fear-based and intentionally misleading statements intended to pit snowmobilers against skiers, and to incite anger and distrust as a way of raising money. That approach sells everybody short, disrespects both the motorized and human-powered communities and divides us where we should be unified in our support and defense of public lands and our ability to use them responsibly.
I know there’s a better way to move this conversation forward, and I remain committed to open and respectful dialogue with all those who want to enjoy our public lands in winter. Winter travel planning, the very public process we’re trying to open up for all of us who use and care about the Boise, Payette, Bridger-Teton and other forests across the country, is one of the best ways I know to facilitate that open respectful dialogue. I hope you’ll meet us at the table to advocate for your preferences as snowmobilers and fellow public land owners.
Sincerely,
Mark-Menlove-copy-300x40.jpg

Mark Menlove
Executive Director
Winter Wildlands Alliance
 

Wintertime

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They wrote this open letter. Notice in the pictures they have no helmets on. They promote safety on all levels they say. This is a be my buddy letter and reel you in to think I'm just trying to make everything fair. No it is so me and my Bunny Hugger friends can stop those loud snowmobiles.
 

Dogmeat

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I really tried to respond to that "open letter" but I couldn't get much past "Go f*ck yourselves you idiot bunch of jackass f*cktards" ....

Maybe once I get calmed down a bit I'll try to form up some type of intelligent response ....
 

Lander

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I worked for the USFS on the BT and learned a thing or two about law enforcement. The ability to deny access would be virtually impossible because the BT has only a few law enforcement officials on staff to cover millions of acres at any one time. USFS could be required to write the rules but the enforcement would be non-existent.
 

TreewellDweller

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We need to remember, the USFS has written the rule and they have done their due diligence. If anything needs to be reviewed and re-discussed it should be these RWAs (Recommended Wilderness Areas) and WSAs (Wilderness Study Areas). These areas are not wilderness and many USFS regions want to treat them as such even after they have been taken to court and told not to. These areas should be open to OSV(over snow vehicle) use being that they leave no trace once the snow melts.
The groups like WWA (Winter Wildland Alliance) want to use your tag fees to plow the parking lots, install the warming huts and restrooms, and then groom the trails 10-30 miles into the back country so that they can ski the bowls that you and I have been riding to for the last 10-20 years, or longer. They want everything closed to OSV use except a designated trail like it was an ATV or Motorcycle.
It wasn't until one of them bought a snowmobile and followed a set of tracks to see where everybody was going did they realize what was out there. They have admitted that back country skiing does not extend more than 4 miles from any point of origin. To them, that point of origin should be anywhere along the groomed trail on which they stop.
As for enforcement, it has been stated more than once that the USFS does not have the manpower to patrol much, if any, of there acres presently open to snowmobiles. That is no excuse to break the law. Laws were, and are, put in place to protect humans, wildlife, and the environment. It has been proven time and again that responsible snowmobiling has no adverse affect on any of those. For this reason I feel that if the existing decision were to be re-addressed it should only be to discuss opening more acres to OSV use.
It is time to take a stand and support the sport that we work so hard to enjoy.
 

Wintertime

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If you use a groomed trail in winter you buy a sticker weather your on Fat tire bike,X-skis, snowshoes whatever. The states should set up a fee system for these uses that way if they want to use a a trail that snowmobiles pay for they pay also. These people want everything for free and don't care about how it gets done. We can share the back country with all and everyone can have fun. I think a fee system for all would make sense and may shut some of these people down.
 

TreewellDweller

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Colorado Snowmobilers Helping Western Snowmobilers

The Colorado Snowmobile Association (CSA)has pledged up to $5000 match to challenge it's members to donate funds to the ISSA (Idaho State Snowmobile Association) for it's legal fund. The pending lawsuit from WWA (Winter Wildland Alliance) is going to be on the backs of the snowmobilers to defend ourselves and defeat it.
Let us all stand tall and do our part in this effort. Whatever happens here will have a ripple affect throughout the USFS winter travel decisions.
Let us show our appreciation for another group that is willing to assist us by putting "our" money where "our" mouth is.
Let us succeed in keeping our snowmobiling areas open for the next generation.
Go to their FaceBook page and read it for yourselves. Thank you CSA.
 

Killer Time Racing

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If you use a groomed trail in winter you buy a sticker weather your on Fat tire bike,X-skis, snowshoes whatever. The states should set up a fee system for these uses that way if they want to use a a trail that snowmobiles pay for they pay also. These people want everything for free and don't care about how it gets done. We can share the back country with all and everyone can have fun. I think a fee system for all would make sense and may shut some of these people down.

This is where the Everyone Pays needs to start .. if it's Recreation and the land you use has to be maintained then a Permit or Sticker should be purchased to offset those needs . Here in Michigan it is pretty much only trails that access our Public Lands .. Snowmobiles are Registered ($30/3yrs) and annual Trail Permits $45/yr..

Hikers and bikers use the same trails for free !!! Now they want the state to pave the trails for ease of bicycle travel !! And as most trails here get done will be closed to Snowmobiles because the trails that we paid for will get scratched by carbides and Crappy studs
 

Ron Burgandy

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I would imagine between the 4 manufacturers that there would be enough resources to shut this down if it got to serious. Mountain sleds make up a good chunk of their sled sales these days, id doubt they'd be willing to give that up.


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