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850 big bores? No talk all season about them?

dave@trygstadmotorsports

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Oct 20, 2012
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TMS 927

i have been runing my trygstad motorsports 927 for two years and it has worked awsome any updates that dave has come out with he has given me. TMS customer support is over the top i have 1600 miles and the sled is working great sled was set up by frank may in utah they are amazing people cant wait for the snow to come

Thanks for the update on your TMS 927, Give a call as we have some more updates that we share with all our actual customers.

Dave T.
 

mtncat

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Rapt 804 welcome to the Forum as I see you joined on 9/10/18, glad to hear your experience with the TMS 927 is positive, Jim at Frank May has helped me out of a jamb or two with the wiring issues on the 2017 850's, nothing but good out of that dealership.
 
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venom1000

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The 927 suits my riding style quite well and wish I could b 100% guaranteed that it would perform. I'm In Canada and it's quite the turnaround process to get it all completed. looking at 5 to 6 weeks if everything goes well, and b fine with that ahead of the riding season. I had talked with one dealer and was told he was on the 15th fuel map/tune and clutching was an issue. But did end up getting it figured out in the end. They also said that the 872 BB's have been rock solid!
I'm not saying that it doesn't or wouldn't perform by any means. I Just want to b confident in my purchase.

Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk
 

dave@trygstadmotorsports

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Just to reiterate, Justin has a flash he's been selling. It 100% does work and will run more reliably than the any tuner box map. It was developed to fix a problem many riders brought to him, including one of his racers.

I'd throw this flash on the sled and make sure everything is installed properly. I'm guessing the TMS clutching is pretty good. (no idea)

I know, nobody wants to throw $500 at something that is already so expensive, but it will work and will at least keep the kit from being a hefty paperweight!

Just an idea for those struggling.

You guys have no clue what we are using for a fuel controller and other adds to make our TMS927 perform as it does the past season. It has very limited user adjustments as all the correct mapping has been developed and runs as advertised with offsets for correct fuel per cylinder as these engines need.

The reflash (tricking temps and pressures) has not been proven or tested as we do not endorse that product at this time at TMS. We were once contacted about this reflash but never offered to try and test. You might claim there is a unicorn flashed one out there but if true this is a race vehicle only. And keeping the warranty for our customers on there expensive vehicle is very important.

Simply a internet sales pitch to collect a 500.00 fee.

I do not play the question and answer game on a keyboard FYI, Maybe have Justin or your person that heads up the engine development (dyno) guy at your facility and we can chat.

At TMS we work with the Crew at BRP/Ski Doo not against them!
 

dave@trygstadmotorsports

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I highly recommend AGAINST the big bore. Either leave it stock and tune the clutching or go with a turbo. I promise you won’t be happy with the BB. The clutching that comes with the kit is complete garbage. It’s revs but doesn’t have any pull. With the recommended setup, a clutched stock 850 will run better and climb higher than the big bore (also first hand experience). If you still think you want to buy one I’ll make you a good deal on mine, it only has 300 miles on it. It’s the most expensive paperweight I own.

Very easy to reach here at TMS.
507-281-3545
Dave Trygstad
 
M

mach11998

Member
Oct 29, 2009
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Great Idea to get an independant dyno test on any aftermarket product as the attached snapshot is what one of our out east TMS 927 customers found when he wanted to verify the product that he purchased. Great way to fine tune for different applications and elevations and make small changes to timing and fueling parameters.

Note to get this kind of performance results you will need to run the TMS 927 designed piggyback fuel controller with our developed fuel mapping and offsets that we include with our kits. Someone trying to re-invent the wheel with thier own ideas on how to add fuel to the sled and not utilizing our developed fuel controller is obviously going to have different results.

There are a good number of very satisfied TMS 927 owners on the snow the last 2 seasons running our complete package- fueling, clutching, etc.




Close to 200 hp in Quebec city !!!!


MAX
 
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mach11998

Member
Oct 29, 2009
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Hard to believe the dyno sheet posted as I have a new OEM top end and 927 top end sitting side by side on the bench, run through and compare all ports from OEM to the 927, all port height is the same as a stock 850 with the exception of the rear port in front of reed valves is 1.5mm lower, so where does this magical 192+ HP and 132+ Trq come from? so here is what I found for fueling on the 927 and what finally made it run. Y pipe light coat of oil and dark brown, main pipe light coat of oil for about 10 inches turning to a light dry brown through the rest of the pipe, fueling I used for the last 950 miles----- Stock!!!---AFR#s at WOT 13:1, wash on pistons now that it is apart about 5/16-3/8 of an inch, this is the only way my 927 would run down the stock 850's if they got the jump on me. there were more side by side comparisons with this sled than any other I have owned trying to get it to pull like it should, add fuel and there is no catching the 850"s


12.2 AFR !!!!!
 

mtncat

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My stock one is close to a 170 HP in Quebec City that has a altitude of like 70 feet above sea level, WOW!!! 200HP on a dyno means nothing to me as I have seen high HP dyno #'s consistently beat up by stockers, Especially at high Alt 8500 ft up 12000 ft
So again Max or Dave is 12.2 AFR what my target is on the 927?????
 
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J

JJ_0909

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You guys have no clue what we are using for a fuel controller and other adds to make our TMS927 perform as it does the past season. It has very limited user adjustments as all the correct mapping has been developed and runs as advertised with offsets for correct fuel per cylinder as these engines need.

The reflash (tricking temps and pressures) has not been proven or tested as we do not endorse that product at this time at TMS. We were once contacted about this reflash but never offered to try and test. You might claim there is a unicorn flashed one out there but if true this is a race vehicle only. And keeping the warranty for our customers on there expensive vehicle is very important.

Simply a internet sales pitch to collect a 500.00 fee.

I do not play the question and answer game on a keyboard FYI, Maybe have Justin or your person that heads up the engine development (dyno) guy at your facility and we can chat.

At TMS we work with the Crew at BRP/Ski Doo not against them!

LOL!

Apologies in advance to the Snowest faithful (all 19 of us) who have to endure this bit of writing. Feel free to hit your back button...Displ

1) One of your racers use the map. It was built for him because of problems your external box has. Other customers of yours came to us so we decided to sell the map. ZERO have had problems after the reflash.

2) Show me any modern vehicle (car) that uses a control box to adjust fuel after a modification to the vehicle...Reflashes are commonplace, and obviously superior in truck tuning, racecar tuning etc. Take a look at EFI Live, Cobb, Bullydog etc etc etc - we aren't claiming to invent this, we just saw it in other application and realized it made so much more sense than a control box.

Call it "tricking" if you want, but a map is a map. There is no "tricking", it is rebuilding the map to dynamically respond to operating changes (natively). Put another way you get the exact same performance you get in a stock sled, just with your modifications accounted for. Again, learn how this works in the automotive world where it is 100% the standard way to fuel for mods (well, after 1993 that is...)

3) Warranty? What? Dude you are extensively modifying an engine. How does warranty work in this situation?

4) Why would I want to call you when you spew this BS?
 

kanedog

Undefeated mountain clutching champ of the world.
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I've seen Trygs sled run......where's your vid? All I see from you is fuel this, data this, automotive that, blah blah blah.
This happens all the time. New guy comes upon the scene, thinks he is a god with data and ecu's and fuel injection. Dude and his electronics eventually fail in the real world of sledding. Guy fades into snowest history. All 19 members witness the spectacular spectacle.


Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk
 
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mach11998

Member
Oct 29, 2009
15
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My stock one is close to a 170 HP in Quebec City that has a altitude of like 70 feet above sea level, WOW!!! 200HP on a dyno means nothing to me as I have seen high HP dyno #'s consistently beat up by stockers, Especially at high Alt 8500 ft up 12000 ft
So again Max or Dave is 12.2 AFR what my target is on the 927?????

I was doing business with Dave for around 8 years starting with the 800 xp That We make huge number on the dyno in quebec and win a lot of race in quebec circuit
After he built Monster 872 radar / Trail sled
Now he built torque Monster 927 radar / Trail sled

I put lot of Time on all the built engine from Dave to make it fly at sea-level with always the result at the end !!!

Some peoples are missing someting if your not flying fast!!!

Thanks Again Dave !!
 

mtncat

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Mach 11998 you posted a AFR of 12.2 !!!!! , so my question to you or Dave is would that be the target AFR for the 927??? Not really interested what they do at sea level or for that matter how they are driven on a hard pack trail.
So I bought my 927 from Dave, it was one of four TMS shop sleds that he delivered to me, first ride out 4-5 miles of trail sled ran ok, drop off into a canyon loaded with snow, try to do some long pulls sled goes into limp mode, 5500-6000 RPM Day 1 ruined, call Dave as he is still in Jackson, him and his boy drive down pull sled apart cant find anything wrong but replace power commander with new one take it up on mountain put 5-6 miles on bring back say all is good, Day 2 back on mountain, again trail in is good, hit the deep stuff and again limp mode, call Dave he has no idea what is wrong, Dave contacts Jim at Frank May, Jim says check boost injector wires, found both injector wires damaged, fix problem, now it will run but still sets check engine light and limp mode at times, start leaning out fuel map and the problem is less and less but never completely gone, season 2 pull power commander off, piggy back in a 2nd air temp sensor like the 872's did, no more limp mode or check engine lights ever, sled runs good but is equal to a stocker, pull second air temp out and run on factory ECU and finally it becomes a runner, driving by other 927's and stocker's by a large margin, now on to the stock 850, base gasket change, timing, clutching and gearing and now we are right back giving the 927 fits. So again Max you listed a AFR at 12.2 is this my target AFR for the 927?
 
M

mach11998

Member
Oct 29, 2009
15
14
3
Mach 11998 you posted a AFR of 12.2 !!!!! , so my question to you or Dave is would that be the target AFR for the 927??? Not really interested what they do at sea level or for that matter how they are driven on a hard pack trail.
So I bought my 927 from Dave, it was one of four TMS shop sleds that he delivered to me, first ride out 4-5 miles of trail sled ran ok, drop off into a canyon loaded with snow, try to do some long pulls sled goes into limp mode, 5500-6000 RPM Day 1 ruined, call Dave as he is still in Jackson, him and his boy drive down pull sled apart cant find anything wrong but replace power commander with new one take it up on mountain put 5-6 miles on bring back say all is good, Day 2 back on mountain, again trail in is good, hit the deep stuff and again limp mode, call Dave he has no idea what is wrong, Dave contacts Jim at Frank May, Jim says check boost injector wires, found both injector wires damaged, fix problem, now it will run but still sets check engine light and limp mode at times, start leaning out fuel map and the problem is less and less but never completely gone, season 2 pull power commander off, piggy back in a 2nd air temp sensor like the 872's did, no more limp mode or check engine lights ever, sled runs good but is equal to a stocker, pull second air temp out and run on factory ECU and finally it becomes a runner, driving by other 927's and stocker's by a large margin, now on to the stock 850, base gasket change, timing, clutching and gearing and now we are right back giving the 927 fits. So again Max you listed a AFR at 12.2 is this my target AFR for the 927?


Yes 12.2 /12.4
 
J

JJ_0909

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I've seen Trygs sled run......where's your vid? All I see from you is fuel this, data this, automotive that, blah blah blah.
This happens all the time. New guy comes upon the scene, thinks he is a god with data and ecu's and fuel injection. Dude and his electronics eventually fail in the real world of sledding. Guy fades into snowest history. All 19 members witness the spectacular spectacle.


Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk

How many videos do you want? I've got a pile of them.

Jay & Blaine POV
https://www.facebook.com/SilberTurbos/videos/1615846781841475/ (that sound though... :) )

Lets start with one of Jay & Blaine NOT shot by me...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27Sxkx78J_A


Me...
https://www.facebook.com/SilberTurbos/videos/1695859543840198/
https://youtu.be/PxKPrZh_-fY?t=210

I've got a pile more if you'd like. I would happily post hours of raw footage to youtube too just so people can sift through and try and find a pop, a gurgle, a stumble...(there are none)

As a professional photographer, a lot of this banter reminds me of the "film is better" conversations in the early 2000s when digital was so clearly going to be the way of the future. Some got ahead of it (Canon) some didn't (Polaroid). Go ahead and look at the stock price of either, or better, go take a look and see what happened to Kodak, one of the biggest companies in their era.

You don't have to listen to what I'm talking about, you can just go jump on a reflashed mod sled. Its amazing stuff.
 

dave@trygstadmotorsports

Well-known member
Premium Member
Oct 20, 2012
259
357
63
www.trygstad-motorsports.com
I was doing business with Dave for around 8 years starting with the 800 xp That We make huge number on the dyno in quebec and win a lot of race in quebec circuit
After he built Monster 872 radar / Trail sled
Now he built torque Monster 927 radar / Trail sled

I put lot of Time on all the built engine from Dave to make it fly at sea-level with always the result at the end !!!

Some peoples are missing someting if your not flying fast!!!

Thanks Again Dave !!

Max
Great to here things are running as expected,
Fantastic results as always.
And yes we do build the TMS 927 for special low elevation customers!
Sorry to here that the Silber Turbo did not work out so well $$$$.

New fuel programmer is the ticket for sure as it has so many options available and have had zero issues and the company that builds them is the best on the planet, So many options to adjust fuel and other tricks that can be done way beyond the stock ECU. This is the only programmer we sold over the past season and it does not modify the stock ECU, marker or fingerprint free.

The Dyno Jet Power Commander was a complete POS! as we worked with them for over a season on developing it and trying to make it work on the 850-927, Truth is it worked on aprox 10 percent of the vehicles applied to.

We with huge expense and frustration replaced all of the PCV's with our own version Dobec fuel programmer to ALL of our customers that had an issue.

The best Snowmobile Turbo Companys out there today utilize this type of programmer for there kits for a reason.

IMG_0210.jpg image1 (800x600).jpg image3 (1) (800x600).jpg
 

mtncat

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Wyoming
Thank You Max, That # wont work for me, all that will do on mine is make it a under performing check engine limp mode 927.
 

dave@trygstadmotorsports

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Premium Member
Oct 20, 2012
259
357
63
www.trygstad-motorsports.com
How many videos do you want? I've got a pile of them.

Jay & Blaine POV
https://www.facebook.com/SilberTurbos/videos/1615846781841475/ (that sound though... :) )

Lets start with one of Jay & Blaine NOT shot by me...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27Sxkx78J_A


Me...
https://www.facebook.com/SilberTurbos/videos/1695859543840198/
https://youtu.be/PxKPrZh_-fY?t=210

I've got a pile more if you'd like. I would happily post hours of raw footage to youtube too just so people can sift through and try and find a pop, a gurgle, a stumble...(there are none)

As a professional photographer, a lot of this banter reminds me of the "film is better" conversations in the early 2000s when digital was so clearly going to be the way of the future. Some got ahead of it (Canon) some didn't (Polaroid). Go ahead and look at the stock price of either, or better, go take a look and see what happened to Kodak, one of the biggest companies in their era.

You don't have to listen to what I'm talking about, you can just go jump on a reflashed mod sled. Its amazing stuff.

Sounds like they run good?

What kind of Power and Torque did you get at your Dyno facility with this application like Jays? A lot of people have asked is why this reply.
 
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