standalone ECU for yamaha nytro all years

gunnerthesnowman · Jul 20, 2012

PRECISION E.F.I. said:
with all respect, Jim from OSP is not in the same league as Sebastien, not even close and cannot instinctively understand what is going on in the mountain, but we do know now what is going on....we have modified the fuel equation on the latest firmware so the barometric reading is now read every single rpm so at 8000rpm we read 8000 the baro and adjust fueling accordingly. send me your latest map and your latest datalog files by email (gino.fortin@gmail.com) and we will fix it for you and for free. we have now a lot of experience in the mountain(not too much driving experience but lot of tuning experience!!!)....i still suck as a mountain snowmobiler.
finaly, about big stuff 3, it is simply another standalone in the market and there is 0 function this ecu is doing that we aren't, and you have to be stupid to go pay 3 times more expensive when the expertise is now at your finger tip......

Not quite shore what changes you are talking about , but i was the one that sent info to Ray Hall ( Vipec) and with this info he found out that the way he was telling people to set up there maps , you were not getting barometric correction , he said the LINK engineers never informed him .
Thanks for the offer , but until i see Or know what these changes are i will not be changing anything with my set up , it is working just fine now and until i see / RIDE one set up the way you are doing it , i think i will leave it alone and for now no one gets my map .
As far as the Big Stuff 3 ECU , i do not know what the differents is , but that is what Jim (OSP) uses and from what i see he has done very well , and its not up to me to ? why or what or to say he does not hold a candle or that he is not in the same league to some other tuner and the same should go for others until they have the same proofen product , records under there belt.:face-icon-small-dis
Hope to see you out in western Canada this year with your sleds

gunnerthesnowman · Jul 20, 2012

hotmail said:
hi does it idle ok and what about starting in cold temperatutes.can i get your phonenumber Thanks from norway

Yes it idles just fine , starts good in cool temp. its all in the mapping , you have a circuit ( map ) for starting , accel. correction , IAT correction , ECT correction , etc and some of these correction maps have multiple tables.

Vi-PEC Powersports · Jul 20, 2012

gunnerthesnowman said:
Not quite shore what changes you are talking about , but i was the one that sent info to Ray Hall ( Vipec) and with this info he found out that the way he was telling people to set up there maps , you were not getting barometric correction , he said the LINK engineers never informed him .
Thanks for the offer , but until i see Or know what these changes are i will not be changing anything with my set up , it is working just fine now and until i see / RIDE one set up the way you are doing it , i think i will leave it alone and for now no one gets my map .
As far as the Big Stuff 3 ECU , i do not know what the differents is , but that is what Jim (OSP) uses and from what i see he has done very well , and its not up to me to ? why or what or to say he does not hold a candle or that he is not in the same league to some other tuner and the same should go for others until they have the same proofen product , records under there belt.:face-icon-small-dis
Hope to see you out in western Canada this year with your sleds

just wanted to help.....if you change your mind, then send me a log and your latest map and we will check where you can improve and some of the mistakes in your tune. just want to make it better it is....

gunnerthesnowman · Jul 20, 2012

PRECISION E.F.I. said:
just wanted to help.....if you change your mind, then send me a log and your latest map and we will check where you can improve and some of the mistakes in your tune. just want to make it better it is....

Thanks , always room for improvement , but what makes you think that there is mistakes in my tune

hotmail · Jul 21, 2012

gunnerthesnowman said:
Yes it idles just fine , starts good in cool temp. its all in the mapping , you have a circuit ( map ) for starting , accel. correction , IAT correction , ECT correction , etc and some of these correction maps have multiple tables.

Hi can i buy your map? have you changed any sensors or coils?Thanks norway

Vi-PEC Powersports · Jul 21, 2012

gunnerthesnowman said:
Thanks , always room for improvement , but what makes you think that there is mistakes in my tune

mistakes wasn't the right word , probably we can improve drivability and fine tune your compensation tables.....send me a print screen of your boost compensation tables (3d,or surface graph) same for your fuel tables and we will check it. what's realy common in the standalone world is guys doesn't want to share mapping :face-icon-small-sho when in fact it is what makes the sport growing!! i have nothing to gain receiving your map, you have everything to gain from our expertise. Sebastien(tuner) is currently replacing RayHall on tech support and he knows about sledding and mountain riding with all the temps and baro changes, he was in the mountains 3 weeks straight last years just to build compensation tables. We have made some firmawre changes to correct a few baro issues and improved fuel equation based on that.
i want to help but if you want to keep your map ,well it is up to you my friend.

gunnerthesnowman · Jul 21, 2012

hotmail said:
Hi can i buy your map? have you changed any sensors or coils?Thanks norway

Yes , the stock ECU, wire harness , coils and some of the stock sensor are gone , not a plug and play kit . what is it that your up too , are you running a standalone and if so what brand.

Tarzannr1 · Jul 21, 2012

hotmail said:
Hi can i buy your map? have you changed any sensors or coils?Thanks norway

Du glemte vist den variatoren igjen.

gunnerthesnowman · Jul 21, 2012

PRECISION E.F.I. said:
mistakes wasn't the right word , probably we can improve drivability and fine tune your compensation tables.....send me a print screen of your boost compensation tables (3d,or surface graph) same for your fuel tables and we will check it. what's realy common in the standalone world is guys doesn't want to share mapping :face-icon-small-sho when in fact it is what makes the sport growing!! i have nothing to gain receiving your map, you have everything to gain from our expertise. Sebastien(tuner) is currently replacing RayHall on tech support and he knows about sledding and mountain riding with all the temps and baro changes, he was in the mountains 3 weeks straight last years just to build compensation tables. We have made some firmawre changes to correct a few baro issues and improved fuel equation based on that.
i want to help but if you want to keep your map ,well it is up to you my friend.

Thats good to know , have not been on the vipec forum for awhile .
You may be right and once you have a apex set up , running, tuned and come to Revey. that i can see for my self , i will stick with what i am running.
Cam ( lightspeed) does very well in the tuning busisness with cars , but in tuning my sled it was a sh!t show to say the least , useing so many tables , overlay maps etc , it was a computer nerds nightmare .
The way Jim (OSP) started me off was simple , something i could work with , because for now , until someone get this standalone thing worked out and working like a factory installed ECU , the buyer / rider has to do his own tuning , so keep it simple .
The only other way is to get it in the hands of the turbo kit builders , have them tune it for there kit in all condition and then sell it as a kit , and i think this is what you are trying to do , but until I see it with my own eyes it is all here say , i have been sold so much sh!t by turbo kit builder that was suppose to work just to end up spending more money , my time getting it to work for them , just to have them wanting you to tell them what you did to get it working or having them telling you what you did will not work.
So yes , i some what believe in what you are trying to do , but until you do it , try not to tell others what they are doing wrong , all i know is i have a apex running stock compression , 3076 turbo , two sets of stage 700cc injectors , running at 11,600 rpms up to 25lbs of boost on C-12 and it rips , has very good throttle responce on boost or off boost .
Hope this year you do make the trip to Revey, that you were suppose to last year , until then .

onestopperformance · Jul 21, 2012

gunnerthesnowman said:
That good to know , have not been on the vipec forum for awhile .
You may be right and once you have a apex set up , running, tuned and come to Revey. that i can see for my self , i will stick with what i am running.
Cam ( lightspeed) does very well in the tuning busisness with cars , but in tuning my sled it was a sh!t show to say the least , useing so many tables , overlay maps etc , it was a computer nerds nightmare .
The way Jim (OSP) started me off was simple , something i could work with , because for now , until someone get this standalone thing worked out and working like a factory installed ECU , the buyer / rider has to do his own tuning , so keep it simple .
The only other way is to get it in the hands of the turbo kit builders , have them tune it for there kit in all condition and then sell it as a kit , and i think this is what you are trying to do , but until I see it with my own eyes it is all here say , i have been sold so much sh!t by turbo kit builder that was suppose to work just to end up spending more money , my time getting it to work for them , just to have them wanting you to tell them what you did to get it working or having them telling you what you did will not work.
So yes , i some what believe in what you are trying to do , but until you do it , try not to tell others what they are doing wrong , all i know is i have a apex running stock compression , 3076 turbo , two sets of stage 700cc injectors , running at 11,600 rpms up to 25lbs of boost on C-12 and it rips , has very good throttle responce on boost or off boost .
Hope this year you do make the trip to Revey, that you were suppose to last year , until then .

First off, Big Stuff 3 is designed for boosted applications, and is geared more for the high end Race guys. There are a lot of reason Big stuff works better for racers, but I am not going to get into that and I think the vipec works fine and if the guy is going to make a pig tail I also think this is great, the price is right and would be a great thing for you mountain guys and will work very well...

I did ask Sebastien for some ideas (since he and Ray where working on the nytro 3 cylinder at the time and Big stuff was still working on code for 3 cly for me) I can tell you that what they had going for the 3 cylinder at that time did not work, and Sebastien was imposable to get a hold of and never returned phone calls.. that was my experience with him.. and like I said what ever he was doing didn't work for me... and we of course worked though it. and you know the rest... MY POINT is please don't make claims that you don't really have any idea on.. I am by no way the best tuner around but we sure have some fast sleds that's got to mean something....

Good luck with your ventures and if you get the nytro plug and play going I would be interested to doing some testing for you... let me know...

hotmail · Jul 21, 2012

Tarzannr1 said:
Du glemte vist den variatoren igjen.

Er på hytta nå har lagt den i hengeren

hotmail · Jul 21, 2012

gunnerthesnowman said:
Yes , the stock ECU, wire harness , coils and some of the stock sensor are gone , not a plug and play kit . what is it that your up too , are you running a standalone and if so what brand.

I will try å vipec system,what kind of coils are you using? Witch sensors did you change? Would really like to buy your map

gunnerthesnowman · Jul 22, 2012

hotmail said:
I will try å vipec system,what kind of coils are you using? Witch sensors did you change? Would really like to buy your map

For pressure sensors
,1) oil pressure
2) fuel pressure
3) engine coolant pressure
4) engine exhaust pressure ( this is an interesting one , on a alpine kit running a GT2871 with a .64 A/R housing at 20lbs of boost the back pressure is very high , this translate to a lot of heat on the header an valve train , engine--- with my set up , at 20lbs boost the back pressure is 7lbs , header , valve train and engine runs cooler)

For temp. senors ,
1) engine coolant temp.
2) oil temp.
3) engine inlet air temp.

Your best bet is to call and talk to Jim (OSP) about his kit , my(OSP kit) is a little defferent as i had him model the header after my alpine header so i did not have to change my seat or fuel tank.
My apex kit did not come with a dash ( i think his nytro kit keep stock dash ! ) ,i had no read out , as he tunes by data logging and using a laptop , this does not work for mountain riding , so i had to come up with something there.

As i have already said , Jim (OSP) build me a really good kit , gave me a good safe starting tune and helped me when ever he could to get it set up for the type of riding i do , but i had to work though some things to get it set up for mountain riding that a guy riding the flats and sea level would never have to deal with , but as i say before , in doing it this way , i am the only one that has my map.
Last year i mainly rode my new pro sled , trying just to have fun sledding again , ( only 4 trips to the mountain , due to my duramax motor blowing up in my truck last year )
So sorry to say until i get a full year riding my apex in the mountain , trouble free , the map stays with me , i have nothing to gain in selling my map for a few $ when it costed me thousands and lost years of riding , it would be a different story if i was a turbo kit builder or was selling the ECU product , but for now i will enjoy riding it.

smwizzz · Jul 22, 2012

Interesting question

Iceman56 said:
Is the Boost it really considered a standalone??? I thought all it was is an extra set of injectors that come on when boost goes up, and you control how much fuel they deliver yourself. That is all, right? How is that a standalone?

Not saying it isn't a great product, and work awesome, I think it has proven that it is. I am just confused on what is considered a standalone

The Boost it controller is stand alone in the fact it does not inter twine with the stock wiring, sensors etc that give the stock cpu its readings. The stock cpu uses all of its sensors and basically controls the engine as in a stock form.

When you add Boost it you add injectors and wire the system into the wideband O2 sensor(I think this is optional as it is only a reading for data logging at the present time), it ties into the TPS so the controller knows where it is at in a % of throttle, and it requires a tach signal. None of these effect the stock CPU. The controller also requires a boost signal. The controller uses these inputs to add fuel the way it is set by the tuner. You can fine tune every 200 RPM.

Most piggy back systems tie into something like the absolute manifold pressure sensor or something similar and the tuner tweaks the sensor reading that is sent to the CPU giving the stock CPU a false reading, tricking it into thinking it needs more/less fuel. This has been an effective method of adding a turbo set up over the years. Some systems required fuel system upgrades for instance higher fuel pressures and larger injectors. This system does work, however once again back to the general consensus... they are high maintenance and problematic for tuners. Very few people I know, including myself found these systems to work flawlessly and/or consistently.

If the system in discussion in this forum is a complete replacement for the stock CPU, coupled with add on injectors, I would consider it a stand alone for it does not require another system. I would also consider Boost it (and possibly the new Boondocker with its add on injectors) a stand alone as it stands presently. Maybe a side by side is a better definition due to the fact they work side by side. I do wonder if Boost it could actually be installed as the primary CPU and eliminate the stock fuel system completely??? Adrenaline, rapid bike and some of the others require a connection and interact in some fashion with the stock CPU so they would be defined as piggy back

smwizzz · Jul 22, 2012

Awesome!!!

PRECISION E.F.I. said:
with all respect, Jim from OSP is not in the same league as Sebastien, not even close and cannot instinctively understand what is going on in the mountain, but we do know now what is going on....we have modified the fuel equation on the latest firmware so the barometric reading is now read every single rpm so at 8000rpm we read 8000 the baro and adjust fueling accordingly. send me your latest map and your latest datalog files by email (gino.fortin@gmail.com) and we will fix it for you and for free. we have now a lot of experience in the mountain(not too much driving experience but lot of tuning experience!!!)....i still suck as a mountain snowmobiler.
finaly, about big stuff 3, it is simply another standalone in the market and there is 0 function this ecu is doing that we aren't, and you have to be stupid to go pay 3 times more expensive when the expertise is now at your finger tip......

It is good to help out and prove your product. I am not trying to sell anyone anything and am not trying to run you down.... but when you write something please try to understand there are certain words people just automatically associate with themselves when used in certain context.

I KNOW you did not call anyone stupid, but I see a potential for a miscommunication.

We have all spent more $$$ on occasion than should have been spent. I had a crazy 2 stroke and the engine started causing me grief. It would have been way cheaper to either get a new ride or do something along the lines of a new motor.... It was the thing to do and I admit stupid to spend the $$$ on that motor. I do not believe I was stupid... just committed to my ride. One never really knows for sure if it is the first or the last dollar spent to make it work. Sometimes the first $$$ fix the problem, sometimes the gremlin sticks around for a few more $$$.

Just saying!!!!

Hope your product rocks!!! We could use another GOOD product!!!:face-icon-small-hap:face-icon-small-hap:face-icon-small-hap

hotmail · Jul 22, 2012

gunnerthesnowman said:
For pressure sensors
,1) oil pressure
2) fuel pressure
3) engine coolant pressure
4) engine exhaust pressure ( this is an interesting one , on a alpine kit running a GT2871 with a .64 A/R housing at 20lbs of boost the back pressure is very high , this translate to a lot of heat on the header an valve train , engine--- with my set up , at 20lbs boost the back pressure is 7lbs , header , valve train and engine runs cooler)

For temp. senors ,
1) engine coolant temp.
2) oil temp.
3) engine inlet air temp.

Your best bet is to call and talk to Jim (OSP) about his kit , my(OSP kit) is a little defferent as i had him model the header after my alpine header so i did not have to change my seat or fuel tank.
My apex kit did not come with a dash ( i think his nytro kit keep stock dash ! ) ,i had no read out , as he tunes by data logging and using a laptop , this does not work for mountain riding , so i had to come up with something there.

As i have already said , Jim (OSP) build me a really good kit , gave me a good safe starting tune and helped me when ever he could to get it set up for the type of riding i do , but i had to work though some things to get it set up for mountain riding that a guy riding the flats and sea level would never have to deal with , but as i say before , in doing it this way , i am the only one that has my map.
Last year i mainly rode my new pro sled , trying just to have fun sledding again , ( only 4 trips to the mountain , due to my duramax motor blowing up in my truck last year )
So sorry to say until i get a full year riding my apex in the mountain , trouble free , the map stays with me , i have nothing to gain in selling my map for a few $ when it costed me thousands and lost years of riding , it would be a different story if i was a turbo kit builder or was selling the ECU product , but for now i will enjoy riding it.

Thanks for info

can i ask you about your timing ?are you running 33 or more on the top. sorry for bad spelling

gunnerthesnowman · Jul 22, 2012

hotmail said:
Thanks for info can i ask you about your timing ?are you running 33 or more on the top. sorry for bad spelling

What timing you are going to run depends on what fuel you are running , what your max boost will be , what compression ratio your engine is running .
Yes i do hit 33 degree of timing in my timing curve , but not on top end , my timing map has changed from what Jim first set me up with.
With Jims kit , he has some kit secrets that he keeps close to he belt , and as agreed to , i have never told anyone :face-icon-small-win, even though some guys think i did :face-icon-small-sho , i will refer you to him , all i can tell you , with a OSP kit , once it is tuned , it ripps , i have a very hard time holding on after 18lbs , so not really needing the full C12 fuel , so may try to cut the mix C12/ prim. and see what that does , also have a fully modded Lakeside head sitting in the garage , ported/polished , oversize valves ,dual coiled ti springs , also a set of hurricane cams , but it is very hard to make the call to tear down a motor that is working so good.:rockon:

gunnerthesnowman · Jul 22, 2012

PRECISION E.F.I. said:
with all respect, Jim from OSP is not in the same league as Sebastien, not even close and cannot instinctively understand what is going on in the mountain, but we do know now what is going on....we have modified the fuel equation on the latest firmware so the barometric reading is now read every single rpm so at 8000rpm we read 8000 the baro and adjust fueling accordingly. send me your latest map and your latest datalog files by email (gino.fortin@gmail.com) and we will fix it for you and for free. we have now a lot of experience in the mountain(not too much driving experience but lot of tuning experience!!!)....i still suck as a mountain snowmobiler.
finaly, about big stuff 3, it is simply another standalone in the market and there is 0 function this ecu is doing that we aren't, and you have to be stupid to go pay 3 times more expensive when the expertise is now at your finger tip......

smwizzz said:
It is good to help out and prove your product. I am not trying to sell anyone anything and am not trying to run you down.... but when you write something please try to understand there are certain words people just automatically associate with themselves when used in certain context.

I KNOW you did not call anyone stupid, but I see a potential for a miscommunication.

We have all spent more $$$ on occasion than should have been spent. I had a crazy 2 stroke and the engine started causing me grief. It would have been way cheaper to either get a new ride or do something along the lines of a new motor.... It was the thing to do and I admit stupid to spend the $$$ on that motor. I do not believe I was stupid... just committed to my ride. One never really knows for sure if it is the first or the last dollar spent to make it work. Sometimes the first $$$ fix the problem, sometimes the gremlin sticks around for a few more $$$.

Just saying!!!!

Hope your product rocks!!! We could use another GOOD product!!!:face-icon-small-hap:face-icon-small-hap:face-icon-small-hap

In my books , there is no miscommunication there .

Vi-PEC Powersports · Jul 23, 2012

gunnerthesnowman said:
In my books , there is no miscommunication there .

common, i did not called you stupid, it is just a french to english translation meaning why would someone buy a 3x more expensive solution when it does nothing more, and a bit less in fact.

jesus guys, why are you so much focusing on stuff like that?

sorry again if you took it that way....but it wasn't my intention to call you "stupid"

Vi-PEC Powersports · Jul 23, 2012

onestopperformance said:
First off, Big Stuff 3 is designed for boosted applications, and is geared more for the high end Race guys. There are a lot of reason Big stuff works better for racers, but I am not going to get into that and I think the vipec works fine and if the guy is going to make a pig tail I also think this is great, the price is right and would be a great thing for you mountain guys and will work very well...

I did ask Sebastien for some ideas (since he and Ray where working on the nytro 3 cylinder at the time and Big stuff was still working on code for 3 cly for me) I can tell you that what they had going for the 3 cylinder at that time did not work, and Sebastien was imposable to get a hold of and never returned phone calls.. that was my experience with him.. and like I said what ever he was doing didn't work for me... and we of course worked though it. and you know the rest... MY POINT is please don't make claims that you don't really have any idea on.. I am by no way the best tuner around but we sure have some fast sleds that's got to mean something....

Good luck with your ventures and if you get the nytro plug and play going I would be interested to doing some testing for you... let me know...

hi sir,
it is with great respect for your work, in the sledding industry, that i am going to answer on your reply. My only point is we are concentrating on developping a plugin application and tune mr.everyday sled(boosted or not) for everyday ride at any elevation. we are currently not working on race package and not interested in doing so, except for a few friends.Tuning a mountain sled is way different then doing a 600 ft drag race. Sebastien has been mapping crazy projects, rally cars, drift cars,twin turbo corvettes,racing porshe,supercharged kawasaki jetskis(all endurance races) .....and a budweiser sponsered 1/8 mile ford lightning drag racer. Discussing with guys over forums mean you will end up in trouble especialy when the language is a barrier. when i said Sebastien is in another league, i meant he is not doing the same work as you, he is been in EFI world for 14 years now and even if he is 35, he has been long in the business. Obviously, working with standalone ECU on EFI engines for 3 years now, and only drag racing, you do not have this guy expertise and/or knowledge, but this doesn't mean you are no good and far from me pretending that...and i think that is the way you may have felt it, sorry if that's the case. you have a very solid record in the snowmobile industry and can only be proud of it and i respect that also.
by helping you, i was meaning sebastien gave you informations on the software that was pushing you forward...... you have been winning races because you know what you do right?

standalone ECU for yamaha nytro all years

nytro standalone ECU ??

not interested!!

interested only if OEM dash working!!

interested even with OEM dash not working(can fit aftermarket dash)!!

interested with a plug and play setup only!!

interested even if i have to weld a few wires!!

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