Rear Suspension Mods/Upgrades for 36" Front End on 15 and Older Pro Climbs

Frostbite · Oct 2, 2016

Some how I feel like I am missing out on the awesomeness of the 2016 Cat front end.

I removed the stock 38" Cat front end on my 2015 M8000 153" and replaced it with the Cat 2016 36" front end. I had my stock Fox Floats shortened to accommodate the new width.

I will be the first to admit that I am a bit of an old school mountain rider and newer wrong foot forward riding style (even though I have tried it many times) still feels a bit foreign to me. In fact, that could be my problem in trying to get my 2015 from continually tipping over.

I have ridden many other sleds (Older M series included) and there seems to be a natural spot when tipped up on edge that you feel like you can ride at that angle all day without effort.

I just haven't found that spot with this sled. It feels like there is no natural edge the sled likes to ride on, once tipped up it wants to go right over. I looks like a clown out there trying to get up on edge and stay there.

Are there some rear suspension changes (like the 2016 or 2017 sleds) that I should be making to my 2015 to make it work better?

I have the new 2017 Mountain Cat chain case and a 3" Powerclaw in my shop and I am at the point of ordering a TKI belt drive kit to match but, if I can't figure out how to ride this sled better that doesn't make much sense.

However, I have never stepped on sled that I didn't figure out very quickly, until now. Maybe I just need a riding school? What rear skid changes would complement the front end changes and make the sled easier to ride and work better?

knifedge · Oct 2, 2016

Wrong foot forward may a bit too much effort with the 16 setup for average terrain...unless your going for extreme manuvers

Chewy22 · Oct 2, 2016

You really need to update the rear skid to the 16/17 geometry, especially if you're doing a MC chain case. You've gone this far might as well take it all the way; for not much more. I really believe the new front end works best with the new skid geometry.

It's so easy to ride a lot of times you don't even need wrong foot forward.

sno*jet · Oct 2, 2016

i remember reading it takes much more than just the front end to change older proclimb to '16 handling characteristics.
can you balance the sled on its side on the shop floor? thats one of my favorite pass times lately:face-icon-small-hap

vector boy · Oct 2, 2016

Yes, '16 skid geometry is a must to get the full effect. Someone might be able to answer this for sure, but I think just the front arm and mounting points are different between the 16/17's than the 2015's?

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summ8rmk · Oct 2, 2016

I love the way my 14 handles with the 16 front. Sidehills easily. Do not need to hang off the sled unless the hill is steep.
Just lift the down hill leg 1in off the board.
Hell, i can side hill sitting down.

GS6

89sandman · Oct 2, 2016

You don't need to upgrade the skid to take advantage of the 36 front end. It may be better with the newer geometry but will work fine without. They put them on Pro's without changing the rear setup and work just fine. Just read all the threads about when doo went to the 36 front end, guys were falling off and flipping it on the side constantly. You just need to practice more and get used to the new way the sled rolls up. You need to learn how much input to put into the sled to get it up on edge and not overpower it. Some people are just not comfortable with the narrow front ends, others like me love them. They are just so much easier to roll up, just a flick of countersteer and the
narrow front end sled rolls up without having to pull hard on the bars. I myself only use wrong foot forward when I have to. In a lot of situations I find myself needing to quickly roll the other way and I'm hanging way off the sled in the opposite direction. For me I find I'm a better rider the more neutral I can be on the sled.

Frostbite · Oct 2, 2016

Great inputs guys! Thank you. Yes, more time on the sled may be all I need?

I could update the rear skid (did things change from 16 to 17?)but, if I don't need to, even better.

So, if I keep the 2015 rear skid stock when I do the belt drive, will using the 2017 Mountain Cat chain case make the sled even harder to ride or easier?

I guess I could just get a belt drive kit for my 2015 chain case and send the Mountain Cat chain case back but, i really think it should help (if the rear skid is compatible).

Heck, maybe riding an RX-1M in the mountains for all those years made me accustomed to throwing my weight to make a direction change but, I rode my M8 for 5 years after that and had no issues.....

Thanks again for all the great feedback.

Dorrito · Oct 2, 2016

Rear suspension upgrades

Has anyone that has done the 16/17 skid geometry updates have any information about it?

Where are the updated mounting holes? What are the front arm part numbers?

I have a 14 I will be putting the 16 front end on and am considering upgrading skid geometry and a 13 that I would like to upgrade to 17 and upgrade skid geometry.

Thank you!

summ8rmk · Oct 2, 2016

Tunnel is the same. Different rails, front shock and arm. One more piece i bieleve.

GS6

summ8rmk · Oct 2, 2016

The 17 Mountain Cat has shorter rails. U can modify the rail caps on the older sleds to clear the drivers.

GS6

Frostbite · Oct 2, 2016

Summ8RMK, how is this done?

"U can modify the rail caps on the older sleds to clear the drivers".

summ8rmk · Oct 2, 2016

http://www.snowest.com/forum/showthread.php?t=416255

GS6

F_ast · Oct 3, 2016

I am not sure if changing the rear suspension setup is going to give you what you want when it comes to making it more or less tippy.

I have a 15 m8000 and find it incredibly predictable and easy to ride and maneuver. However you cannot ride it like a old M. The ballance point is nowhere near as low therefor you cannot lean it over as far without throwing it off ballance. If you try to ride an axys, it's less again.

Just saying that most of these mods you are doing will make you sled more "flickable" which in the end means more tippy and less input to pivot.

Maybe going to a set of 38" arms will help your stability issue

What width do you have your 16 front end set at?

Frostbite · Oct 3, 2016

37" currently

boondocker97 · Oct 3, 2016

Dorrito said:
Has anyone that has done the 16/17 skid geometry updates have any information about it?

Where are the updated mounting holes? What are the front arm part numbers?

I have a 14 I will be putting the 16 front end on and am considering upgrading skid geometry and a 13 that I would like to upgrade to 17 and upgrade skid geometry.

Thank you!

The parts that have changed are rails, front track shock, rear shock pull rod, and the rear idler arm. Front arm is the same. Skid mount location is the same from 2014-2017. Look up part numbers from whatever 2016 or 2017 sled has the colors and rail lengths you want and order based on that.

line8 · Oct 4, 2016

I was the same, I could not ride that thing mid season last year. Tipped over, fell off, got stuck tipping over, etc. I was very disappointed with my purchase after my '11 M8 was so fun. I got the z-bros uppers and added the '16 spindles. At the same time I put on grippers and put them in the narrow setting. That sled completely changed for me. It is tippy if I get out on the side when it's not needed. Really I can stand neutral on all but the steepest sidehills, at slow speeds Also. After that I slimmed it up a bit and it is even better. That balance point is a pretty fine line I think. I also did a revalve on the shocks, which helped some but mostly in different situations.

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Frostbite · Oct 4, 2016

OK, maybe it isn't just me. Whew! Yes, I too had my front shocks re-valved and the stroke shortened but, the rear skid is completely stock, hence my question.

I mean, I too can ride the sled pretty decent now but, I am nowhere near as comfortable or confident doing so as I was on my M8. I also still have more moments than I care to admit where I look like it's my first year of mountain riding. I'm not a big fan of ever being THAT GUY!

I have really wanted to ride an AXYS Proclimb (or the new Skidoo) to see how they compare but, that probably wouldn't end well for my wallet.

line8 · Oct 4, 2016

I added the Fox evol on the rear track shock with the revalve. Helped a lot with handling in all areas of riding. I have a pro 600(wife's) also. I don't ride it much. Just a quick help up a hill or out of a hole or zip around at lunch. I prefer my Proclimb over that. But that's an argument elsewhere x 100.

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Frostbite · Dec 10, 2016

Now I have added the 2017 Mountain Cat chain case and a TKI belt drive and a 3" Powerclaw. I bet my sled will be even more tippy until I can get the time to get it figured out.

Do you guys have a suggestion for the pressures on my front Fox 3 air shocks?

Also, if this doesn't work out, I am considering a Z Bros 38" front A arms but, I have had my front Fox 3 shocks modified (rods cut) to accommodate the 36" Cat front end. I don't think that will work?

I still have the 2015 rear skid with shortened up rail caps. I'm also wondering if maybe I should be adjusting how many threads I have showing below the lock ring on my front track shock?

Rear Suspension Mods/Upgrades for 36" Front End on 15 and Older Pro Climbs

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