So why are ski doos so heavy?
- Thread starter snowmanx
- Start date
just an observation...
the XM has TURBO gauge set on bars...and a XP seat...possibly Estart??
SW DPC shows poo 515ish doo 555ish cat 565ish (if memory serves)...wet ready to ride..BJ
the XM has TURBO gauge set on bars...and a XP seat...possibly Estart??
SW DPC shows poo 515ish doo 555ish cat 565ish (if memory serves)...wet ready to ride..BJ
S
08-09 xp and new pro 515ish wet.
Xm added new engine, non ported track, tetter totter,and some sally gay extras like trunk and gog warmer.
Xm added new engine, non ported track, tetter totter,and some sally gay extras like trunk and gog warmer.
I know its a little late, but you are precisely right. Doo gained 60+ pounds from the advent of the xp in 08, to the 14, and I don't here boo about it. Guess weight doesn't matter much anymore? Or is it that (perceived or actually) the doo is more reliable, and is so secondary to increase weight?
So is it not possible to have a lightweight, reliable, manufactured sled?
Polaris is the lightest by far, and one would argue is the lest reliable? I don't know, just asking and trying to come to a decision of what is the next sled I want. I like lightweight, but will reliability be an issue?
To keep at a reasonable price for consumers and still be reliable yet light weight I think Doo pushed it very close with the Xp in 08. I had an 08 Xp and they had some weak areas that bent very easy but still decently reliable. With the Xm they seem to be a bit stronger have a better motor and nicer plastics with storage, this added weight but I don't see many issues with the 2013 Xm like the 2008 Xp had. I think Doo seen that the Xp in 08 was giving up reliability for light weight. Manufactures could probably make lighter sleds but most would not pay the increases pricing to build them. I see the same with Polaris they have not changed their sled for the last couple years after hitting the 417 mark. Polaris is pushing reliability with a very light chassis.
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P
I agree with the OP. Ski-doo should address the weight issue. I think the sno-scoot phenomenon (dirt bikes) was to bring the cost down to appeal to younger riders with less income. With our demographic they just keep escalating costs. Why not jack it more and offer a light weight version for guys that can bone up and pay? Its pretty ridiculous now how much they cost now anyway. What's a few thousand more bucks really.
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Ain't nothing cheap about snowbikes. 6k+ for a track kit, 9k+ for a new bike.
Even if a person already had a bike, still a tough to justify the bike track compared to a used sled.
Even if a person already had a bike, still a tough to justify the bike track compared to a used sled.
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Agree, but the point is 1 piece of equipment to particpate in two different sports.
Guess my piont is if Ski-doo had a premium light weight version of the XM I would probably buy it.
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skidoo is just holding out.
they have a new light front end on the t3 that there not including in the rest of the line up as well as there light weight can, both should be on the rest of the line up. I question the 16'' wide track being an advantage at this point and the full lenth tunnel cooler is not really needed anymore either I don't think. skidoo offers the fox float 3's in there accessory catalog so not sure why they don't just put them on the sled. skidoo has terrible stock suspension.
If skidoo released a new sled with 15'' wide track and tunnel, half length tuner cooler with ice scratchers stock, ditch the coil springs for float 3's all the way around and added the new front end and can, they would be a lot lighter and the sled would sell like crazy.
one more thing is there stock powder coating looks nice but its a semi matte finish and its paper thin. the only reason the cat sheds more "snow weight" is because of there super glossy powder coating. doo needs the super gloss.
all those changes would be a breeze for do and would make everyones snow check decision a no brainer.
oh and better colors obviously.
they have a new light front end on the t3 that there not including in the rest of the line up as well as there light weight can, both should be on the rest of the line up. I question the 16'' wide track being an advantage at this point and the full lenth tunnel cooler is not really needed anymore either I don't think. skidoo offers the fox float 3's in there accessory catalog so not sure why they don't just put them on the sled. skidoo has terrible stock suspension.
If skidoo released a new sled with 15'' wide track and tunnel, half length tuner cooler with ice scratchers stock, ditch the coil springs for float 3's all the way around and added the new front end and can, they would be a lot lighter and the sled would sell like crazy.
one more thing is there stock powder coating looks nice but its a semi matte finish and its paper thin. the only reason the cat sheds more "snow weight" is because of there super glossy powder coating. doo needs the super gloss.
all those changes would be a breeze for do and would make everyones snow check decision a no brainer.
oh and better colors obviously.
Weight
I like the idea of hanging all four of them from a tree after running through 1'-2' of fresh snow to weigh them. They should be weighed with gas tank and oil tank full. And a spare belt under the hood. Try to keep the track length about the same. And maybe state west coast or Colorado(ie dry or wet snow). I guess what we want to see is true field conditions from a non-biased source. Hey Snowtech how about taking up the task?
I like the idea of hanging all four of them from a tree after running through 1'-2' of fresh snow to weigh them. They should be weighed with gas tank and oil tank full. And a spare belt under the hood. Try to keep the track length about the same. And maybe state west coast or Colorado(ie dry or wet snow). I guess what we want to see is true field conditions from a non-biased source. Hey Snowtech how about taking up the task?
F
So I took a 6 year break from mountain riding.
What could change?
Haven't ridden a Ski-doo in the mountains since an S-Chassis with a 925 and a Poo 159 under it.
Went out this past December to deliver a customers new '14 XM with a 156X3, SHR clutching and an HPS can.
I was to ride Slims Bee (REV) but we had a burndown so, dammit if I have to ride this XM, boy it is gonna be a long day for this POOBOY!
All them videos and the cool moves them youngens' pull off sure seemed a long ways away until I rode this XM! MAN this sled listens to the rider and with NO complaints, goes wherever you want it to go. I was doing all kinds of cool stuff, tail walking it down washouts, then turning right back up with out moving a foot. Yes, as much as it PAINS me to agree with something DPG says, I too am an old schooler and don't do much wrong foot forward as I lernt on the old stuff. I suspect I will add this tool to my already full bag of tricks
now that I am back on the trailer. I was picking lines I would otherwise had never considerd, and some I passed on as this was NOT my XM. Anyways, after a full day on this thing, to which I knew this was the ONLY day I was to ride it, I could not believe how much fun I had, how little energy I spent and how fresh I still felt. Remeber it has been 6 years so I am by no means in "mountain shape"
The next day I was on Slims Bee among others. FAWK, what a TURD! Sorry Slim, but compared to that XM the Bee was WAYYYY too much work. Yes, they are VERY different machines, but JESUS, I was flat worn out 1/2 the day in.
Also got to ride my nephews 09' 860 with a 146. Much better than the bee, but still was not as willing to listen.
I got to jump on the 156X3 for a little bit and pulled a fun line so I took Slims up the same. Slims is a 14' XM 163X2.5 880. Very similiar handling until you point it up a hill. The 156X3 is SOO lively and fun where I felt the 163 was more "old guyish" and planted. Slims' suspension is also set for more "old guy" handling as he is, well, an old guy.
My final sled was a 13' Pro with a 163 and an 850 BB I think. This sled did not impress me in any way. The ergonomics were funky, where I fit right into the XM, the POO was a bit awkward. Power was down which made everything else more work IMO. I did not take it into the trees but If I had I do not believe it would perform better than the stock Xm with a 3" and I almost bought a Pro this year so nobody can play that card in response......
As for weight? The Bee actuall felt the heaviest, then Slims XM, then the Poo then the new XM. All I can say is that 156X3 is just a fricken hoot! The sled is VERY lively and makes the machine feel even lighter than it may be. The suspension was all stock except I cranked up the rear springs to the 2nd position. I am 6'4 and 220lbs.
For me there is no other sled I would buy than the XM and put a 156X3 on it. I do not like the longer sleds. At least for what I need and want in a sled and how it handles. I know others cannot get enough track, but I don't live and ride where it is needed. If it weighs more than other sleds I did not feel it at the end of the day. The only muscles that hurt were the ones that made me smile.
Sadly I have purchased an XP. I can't justify XM $$ for how much mountain use I will get out of it. Thankfully I ride with a couple Xm 880's with 3' tracks so I can get my fix for free!
What could change?
Haven't ridden a Ski-doo in the mountains since an S-Chassis with a 925 and a Poo 159 under it.
Went out this past December to deliver a customers new '14 XM with a 156X3, SHR clutching and an HPS can.
I was to ride Slims Bee (REV) but we had a burndown so, dammit if I have to ride this XM, boy it is gonna be a long day for this POOBOY!
All them videos and the cool moves them youngens' pull off sure seemed a long ways away until I rode this XM! MAN this sled listens to the rider and with NO complaints, goes wherever you want it to go. I was doing all kinds of cool stuff, tail walking it down washouts, then turning right back up with out moving a foot. Yes, as much as it PAINS me to agree with something DPG says, I too am an old schooler and don't do much wrong foot forward as I lernt on the old stuff. I suspect I will add this tool to my already full bag of tricks
now that I am back on the trailer. I was picking lines I would otherwise had never considerd, and some I passed on as this was NOT my XM. Anyways, after a full day on this thing, to which I knew this was the ONLY day I was to ride it, I could not believe how much fun I had, how little energy I spent and how fresh I still felt. Remeber it has been 6 years so I am by no means in "mountain shape"The next day I was on Slims Bee among others. FAWK, what a TURD! Sorry Slim, but compared to that XM the Bee was WAYYYY too much work. Yes, they are VERY different machines, but JESUS, I was flat worn out 1/2 the day in.
Also got to ride my nephews 09' 860 with a 146. Much better than the bee, but still was not as willing to listen.
I got to jump on the 156X3 for a little bit and pulled a fun line so I took Slims up the same. Slims is a 14' XM 163X2.5 880. Very similiar handling until you point it up a hill. The 156X3 is SOO lively and fun where I felt the 163 was more "old guyish" and planted. Slims' suspension is also set for more "old guy" handling as he is, well, an old guy.
My final sled was a 13' Pro with a 163 and an 850 BB I think. This sled did not impress me in any way. The ergonomics were funky, where I fit right into the XM, the POO was a bit awkward. Power was down which made everything else more work IMO. I did not take it into the trees but If I had I do not believe it would perform better than the stock Xm with a 3" and I almost bought a Pro this year so nobody can play that card in response......
As for weight? The Bee actuall felt the heaviest, then Slims XM, then the Poo then the new XM. All I can say is that 156X3 is just a fricken hoot! The sled is VERY lively and makes the machine feel even lighter than it may be. The suspension was all stock except I cranked up the rear springs to the 2nd position. I am 6'4 and 220lbs.
For me there is no other sled I would buy than the XM and put a 156X3 on it. I do not like the longer sleds. At least for what I need and want in a sled and how it handles. I know others cannot get enough track, but I don't live and ride where it is needed. If it weighs more than other sleds I did not feel it at the end of the day. The only muscles that hurt were the ones that made me smile.
Sadly I have purchased an XP. I can't justify XM $$ for how much mountain use I will get out of it. Thankfully I ride with a couple Xm 880's with 3' tracks so I can get my fix for free!
I always get a good laugh when i watch this video. They say the Pro gains about 120 pounds of snow weight when riding. That's about 15 gallons of water!! Really?? hahaha!!! Does anyone really believe there is the equivalent of 3 full 5 gallon buckets of water attached to the Pro sled somehow??
A video like this just smacks of desperation on Yamaha's part! I guess if they are going to tell a lie, tell it SO big no one believes it =)
Cheers!!
I
Interesting comments on a thread about sled weights; FEZ is finally on to something that I have known for quite a long time,
IT'S all in SET-UP. The fastest and highest climber was the 880 163.
Here are the weights of the sleds he is referring to; (totally backwards from what he felt)
05 Rev SHS700 - Final: 411 lbs. Dry (2011) (Not mine anymore, but my build)
13 XM 880 163 - Final: 416 lbs. Dry (2014) (Mine)
14 Poo - Guessing at 421 lbs. 163 light can?
14 156x3 - 439 lbs. stock weight 445 with can (-12lbs) + 3" track (+6 lbs.)
Interesting eh? Fez, if I had mine adjusted like Ralph's it's a total different animal, (Wheelie machine or "Very Active") :face-icon-small-hap:face-icon-small-coo I have set it up to be very coupled for climbing and forward launch.
It's all in SET-UP for individual purposes.
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comparisons
WE JUST CAME BACK FROM 4 DAYS IN GOLDEN UP THE SILVER MINES, THERE WAS 5 2014 DOOS, FROM STOCK 154, 163, TO A TURBO 163, AND 154 WITH A TSS PIPE STINGER AND ROOSTER BUILT CLUTCH, "WHAT A FUN SLED THAT WAS" AND I WAS A ON A 2014 155 PRO.
ONE POSTER EARLIER MENTIONED THAT THE PRO HOLDS MORE SNOW, WELL JUST TODAY WE LOADED A PRO AND DOO, BOTH 155 AND 154 TRACKS ON THE DECK AND ONE GUY WALKED BY AND NOTICED HOW MUCH MORE SNOW THE PRO HAD IN THE CHASSIS THAN THE DOO, NEVER EVEN THOUGHT ABOUT IT BEFORE BUT ILL AGREE WITH THAT POST EARLIER, ITS A FACT AND WAS A CONSIDERABLE AMOUNT MORE.
ILL DO THIS IN POINT FORM TO MAKE IT EASIER TO LIST PROS AND CONS.
PROS PROS : I BELIEVE THERE TRAIL RIDING IS SMOOTHER, MAYBE ITS THE WALKER EVENS SHOCKS BUT I REALLY DO THINK IT WAS BETTER ON THE TRAIL.
I BELIEVE THERE CLUTCHES ARE A BIT BETTER SET UP STOCK,
THE SLED PERFORMED WELL, IT WAS GREAT ON FUEL AND OIL AND WE RODE ABOUT 110KM A DAY, NO HICCUPS AT ALL,
GREAT THROTTLE RESPONSE, MAYBE BECAUSE OF THE BELT DRIVE, BUT WHEN YOU RELEASE THE THROTTLE IT SLOWS DOWN FAST LIKE A 4 STROKE MOTOR BIKE AS OPPOSED TO A 2 STROKE, ITLL CATCH YOU BY SURPRISE AND WANT TO THROW YOU OVER THE HANDLE BARS OF YOUR NOT PAYING ATTENTION.
GOES UP THE HILLS SUPRISINLY WELL, MAYBE NOT QUITE AS FAST AS THE DOO BUT IT KEEPS GOING AND GOING, YOU THINK YOU SHOULD TURN OUT AT TIMES BUT IF YOU STICK WITH IT, IT DOES FAIRLY WELL.
CONS: IT IS DEFINATLEY ALLOT MORE WORK TO HANDLE AND THROW AROUND THAN THE DOOS, I KNOW THE PRO IS ALLOT LIGHTER BUT THE DOO RIDES ALLOT LIGHTER.
YOU CAN SIDE HILL THE DOO COMING DOWN HILLS AND TURN THEM RIGHT BACK UP THE HILL ALLOT EASIER THAN THE PRO.
THE RIDER ERGONOMICS OF THE PRO IS JUST STRANGE, FELLS LIKE YOUR REACHING FORWARD ALL THE TIME AND STUBBING YOUR FEET TRYING TO GET THEM FURTHER UNDERNEATH YOUR BODY ALL THE TIME,
THE DOO IS MORE PREDICTABLE WHEN THROWING THE SLED AROUND.
THERE WAS 6 RIDERS IN OUR GROUP AND WE ALL TOOK TURNS SWITCHING ON AND OFF THE DOOS AND PRO,
THE OVERALL CONSENSUS WAS OVERWHELMING WITH THE DOO, SO MUCH SO THAT WE ALL FELT THE PRO WAS FAR HARDER TO RIDE, REALLY WIERD RIDER FEEL AND THERE WAS NOONE CHANGING THERE MINDS TO EVEN CONSIDER A PRO,
WE JUST CAME BACK FROM 4 DAYS IN GOLDEN UP THE SILVER MINES, THERE WAS 5 2014 DOOS, FROM STOCK 154, 163, TO A TURBO 163, AND 154 WITH A TSS PIPE STINGER AND ROOSTER BUILT CLUTCH, "WHAT A FUN SLED THAT WAS" AND I WAS A ON A 2014 155 PRO.
ONE POSTER EARLIER MENTIONED THAT THE PRO HOLDS MORE SNOW, WELL JUST TODAY WE LOADED A PRO AND DOO, BOTH 155 AND 154 TRACKS ON THE DECK AND ONE GUY WALKED BY AND NOTICED HOW MUCH MORE SNOW THE PRO HAD IN THE CHASSIS THAN THE DOO, NEVER EVEN THOUGHT ABOUT IT BEFORE BUT ILL AGREE WITH THAT POST EARLIER, ITS A FACT AND WAS A CONSIDERABLE AMOUNT MORE.
ILL DO THIS IN POINT FORM TO MAKE IT EASIER TO LIST PROS AND CONS.
PROS PROS : I BELIEVE THERE TRAIL RIDING IS SMOOTHER, MAYBE ITS THE WALKER EVENS SHOCKS BUT I REALLY DO THINK IT WAS BETTER ON THE TRAIL.
I BELIEVE THERE CLUTCHES ARE A BIT BETTER SET UP STOCK,
THE SLED PERFORMED WELL, IT WAS GREAT ON FUEL AND OIL AND WE RODE ABOUT 110KM A DAY, NO HICCUPS AT ALL,
GREAT THROTTLE RESPONSE, MAYBE BECAUSE OF THE BELT DRIVE, BUT WHEN YOU RELEASE THE THROTTLE IT SLOWS DOWN FAST LIKE A 4 STROKE MOTOR BIKE AS OPPOSED TO A 2 STROKE, ITLL CATCH YOU BY SURPRISE AND WANT TO THROW YOU OVER THE HANDLE BARS OF YOUR NOT PAYING ATTENTION.
GOES UP THE HILLS SUPRISINLY WELL, MAYBE NOT QUITE AS FAST AS THE DOO BUT IT KEEPS GOING AND GOING, YOU THINK YOU SHOULD TURN OUT AT TIMES BUT IF YOU STICK WITH IT, IT DOES FAIRLY WELL.
CONS: IT IS DEFINATLEY ALLOT MORE WORK TO HANDLE AND THROW AROUND THAN THE DOOS, I KNOW THE PRO IS ALLOT LIGHTER BUT THE DOO RIDES ALLOT LIGHTER.
YOU CAN SIDE HILL THE DOO COMING DOWN HILLS AND TURN THEM RIGHT BACK UP THE HILL ALLOT EASIER THAN THE PRO.
THE RIDER ERGONOMICS OF THE PRO IS JUST STRANGE, FELLS LIKE YOUR REACHING FORWARD ALL THE TIME AND STUBBING YOUR FEET TRYING TO GET THEM FURTHER UNDERNEATH YOUR BODY ALL THE TIME,
THE DOO IS MORE PREDICTABLE WHEN THROWING THE SLED AROUND.
THERE WAS 6 RIDERS IN OUR GROUP AND WE ALL TOOK TURNS SWITCHING ON AND OFF THE DOOS AND PRO,
THE OVERALL CONSENSUS WAS OVERWHELMING WITH THE DOO, SO MUCH SO THAT WE ALL FELT THE PRO WAS FAR HARDER TO RIDE, REALLY WIERD RIDER FEEL AND THERE WAS NOONE CHANGING THERE MINDS TO EVEN CONSIDER A PRO,
#1, SHHH.... you don't need to YELL!
#2, coming from doo to cat or poo, or vice versa, the steering will ALWAYS feel "weird". The sled that is known to be the best handling machine on the snow is hard to say that it feels "weird" to most people if you spend more than a little bit of time on it. I rode cats for years, and they now feel "weird" (just had to ride a buddy's M on a steep downhill sidehill he didn't like last night) just because it's not what I ride anymore. That thing felt weird as hell to me now.
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No arguements from the great state of Minneesoota!
I definately like a little more lift in the front end, but I got you by what? 10+ years
I supect my set up too will change as the years add up. Can't wait to get out again on these Doos. Still lots to learn, and many lines to choose that I would have NEVER considered not so long ago.
I know it's a very old post, but I just picked up an xm 14 163 and since I now have a lift and scale thought I'd post.
I compared a 08 xp, 154, with a light weight can and pretty much everything else stock.
The xm is completely stock.
Both were topped off with gas, but the xm only had 1/4 of oIL on it, so I am addin 4 pounds.
The xm came in at a WHOPPING 60 pounds more.
The scale is spot on, compared it to a bathroom scale and weighing myself.
Xp came in at 526, the xm at 582, plus 4 pounds for oil, so 586#.
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I also have a weight on my turbo nytro, but it's just about out of fuel, so wanted to fuel it up first, but with one or 2 gallons, it is weighing in at about 600#.
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