New poll for 2011 and 12 pro motor issues..
- Thread starter AKSNOWRIDER
- Start date
Yeah, I used to build 20-30K mod sleds.... Now I just want to ride... Ever try supporting one of these?
P
2011 Pro 2300 miles. Crank bearing seized and broke rod through case, also one piston cracked. Brand new short block($5500) on its way under warranty. Not sure I am too excited to keep it. Lost 4 weeks of riding. Dealer was very good. Warranty was slow processing.
--fix it and sell -- sell -- sell
--the engines are throw away motors -- new OEM parts will only replay the nightmare over time and fix nothing
--you can get a 13 RMK (not Pro) with better cooling, chaincase(which can be converted to C3 if desired), upgraded Fuji crank, and thicker cylinder skirts(pistons still loose and will eventually break) -- or wait till '14 model year to see if Polaris OEM improved their product
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S
Are you secretly a Doo or Cat dealer, if not what is it that causes you to spend so much time and effort bashing Polaris ?
Maybe you're just overflowing with basic human goodness and care for others. Yech, that was even hard to say.
M
2011 pro fried
My sled just siezed up at 1100 miles. Love the sled but not much good to me sitting in the shop.
My sled just siezed up at 1100 miles. Love the sled but not much good to me sitting in the shop.
Mine went down last weekend. 2100 miles. Blew pto piston apart above ring. Don't know if it was det. or lean but it locked up. I now have an alumacoated pipe and muffler but on the inside. It's now at the dealer . Now I get to ride a real sled my 98 700.
J
My sled has been running well (knocks on wood)
I did have injector and tps issue, so they put a whole new injector system in (updated 2011 to 2013). And have been problem free!
Now, that's not to mention clutch issue Ihad...
I did have injector and tps issue, so they put a whole new injector system in (updated 2011 to 2013). And have been problem free!
Now, that's not to mention clutch issue Ihad...
Well you are right. In my case anyway.... My pro went down Saturday 950 miles. From what I could tell it seemed to be the crank seal went bad and leaned the motor out. Took the mag side piston. Of course it happened in the worst possible area. Luckily she ran out 20 miles on one cylinder. Ill know more Wednesday and hopefully have some pictures.
C
12 pro retro CE 2.5 track clutching and 19/42 gearing 1200 miles no motor problems
CFI-2 & CFI-4 MOTORS
Defending Polaris alittle.
Just Maybe some of the Polaris CFI4 & CFI 2 Motor problems are misunderstood. ??
And surely Polaris has failed aimlessly at informing their dealers & Sled buyers the complex balance between minimum and maximum tollerances.
First - Polaris has these motors set up from the factory for a complete and utter MORON!!
*( Some say..........Break it in like your going to drive it, or like you stoled it ) * WRONG !! If they are built for performance they need sum early Lovin.
The factory spec for all Polaris all CFI 800 motors - .004 to .0055 Cylinder to piston clearance to a brand new piston.
I have 2 brand new 2013 cylinders on the bench and both measure .0063 piston to cylinder clearance
After the break in period is done the piston wil measure at least -.001 to .0015 smaller.
That puts your brand spanking new sled @ .0073 to .0078 cylinder to piston clearance.
Polaris service Limit MAXIMUM cylinder to wall clearance is .009 - Its nothing to see .012 to .015 piston cylinder clearance in motors that have been sent in for service.
Now what that means is this - Between 500 to 1000 miles...... close to 100%...... and I mean damn close to 100% of all Polaris small block motors
will be up to or past .009 cylinder to piston clearance in the first year of ownership.
And Mountain motors that get used alot will have .010 to .015 thousand clearance by the end of the second year. ( In other words completely woren out ) As close to junk as you can get at this point.
The sad facts are this - POlaris almost HAS to have them set up this way or some MORON will cold seize them.
If you understand how to warm up your sled then you should know what Heat Soak means.
( Warm up is NOT about the stupid heat guage getting to 125 degrees. )
If you start a sled at -10 degree f.that has sat all night and let it idle to 125 degree and then take off you have just done about the worst thing you can do to your poor motor. ( other then take-off at -10 of course )
Your 24.3 lb small block 800 crankshaft is still frozen well below zero. and is brittle & very non flexable. ( now imagin that same 24.3 lb warmed up to 125 degrees ) can you possibly get your head around how much more forgiving things are at +125 degrees as they are at -minus zero ?
Once the heat guage gets to 125 you should shut it off and let it sit at least 10 to 20 minutes and let it HEAT SOAK. the heat will move from the warm pistons, cylinder, and anti-freeze into the crankshaft. ( I would hope at this point you have NOT touched the throttle )
After this heat soaking ( The sled BETTER be on a stand ) if you don't have a stand with you then its time you order a good handle lift adjustable stand. Now with the sled on a stand start it up and let the heat guage get back up past 100 degrees or to 120 then SLOWLY appy throttle and roll the track..... most time you will hear ice breaking and chunks clearing themselves.
THIS IS A MAGIC TIME FOR YOUR BELT AND BOTH YOUR CLUTCHES !!
If your one of those guys that either picks the sled up and drops it or heaven forbid just hit the throttle and go...........You truely desire a BLOWEN motor.
unless your sled lives in a heated shop it BETTER be put on a stand and properly warmed up.
All this being said - What am I saying ???
EVERY SMALL BLOCK 800 Needs new pistons after the first year of riding if you rode over 500 miles.
And if you deside NOT to replate and properly have a shop size your cylinder correctly then your samll block needs NEW pistons EVERY SEASON!! PEROID.
Just like a Dirk Bike - Your Polaris small Block weights about 85 pounds and puts out about 140 hp......and properly rebuilt and clearance will get a new Mountain E-Tek all the hell it can imagin.
In my opinion if you are anal and you warm your slked up like you should these motors should be rebuild when they are brand new for maximum performance.
A completely stock properly rebuild Polaris Small block will out perform and fully modded STAGE 2,4,6,8 10 what ever you want to call it that is over the service limit...........The main reason people think they need fuel controls is because the motors piston to cylinder clearace is over the limitand is getting worse because the problem compounds itself.
The more clearance it has the harder they slap and the more they destroy themsleves.
This is the main reason why people rave about the Long Rod motors, Its because the specs and clearances are must better then mass production clearances.
If you feel the power start to go away on a Polaris 800 Small Block, or you can't pull your clutch weights lighter weights or MOD Parts are not the correct path to take.
Fix the cylinder to piston clearance first...... then if you feel you still want to buy aftermarket parts they will actually work better.
( Keep this in mind ) - If you take your sled to ANY shop for motor work ask to talk dirrectly to the shop TECH and ask him this one simple question.
* ( Do You have a Cylinder Bore Guage ? ) * If he even pauses that means he does not. If he says yes ask him to show you it on the shop.
If he doesn't have one your at the wrong shop and your rebuild quaility depends completely on luck........Instead of measurements.
( You must take control of what gets done to your motor )
Polaris does NOT teach there shop TECHS anything about motor rebuilding you have to find a shop that has taken steps to correctly rebuild a motor or send it to a shop that can.
Starting back in 1997, The Polaris 800 Small Block is one of the best Motors Polaris has built to date it just needs to be kept well within spec.
If it starts out at the correct specs this motor runs good for a long period of time.
Dan
Defending Polaris alittle.
Just Maybe some of the Polaris CFI4 & CFI 2 Motor problems are misunderstood. ??
And surely Polaris has failed aimlessly at informing their dealers & Sled buyers the complex balance between minimum and maximum tollerances.
First - Polaris has these motors set up from the factory for a complete and utter MORON!!
*( Some say..........Break it in like your going to drive it, or like you stoled it ) * WRONG !! If they are built for performance they need sum early Lovin.
The factory spec for all Polaris all CFI 800 motors - .004 to .0055 Cylinder to piston clearance to a brand new piston.
I have 2 brand new 2013 cylinders on the bench and both measure .0063 piston to cylinder clearance
After the break in period is done the piston wil measure at least -.001 to .0015 smaller.
That puts your brand spanking new sled @ .0073 to .0078 cylinder to piston clearance.
Polaris service Limit MAXIMUM cylinder to wall clearance is .009 - Its nothing to see .012 to .015 piston cylinder clearance in motors that have been sent in for service.
Now what that means is this - Between 500 to 1000 miles...... close to 100%...... and I mean damn close to 100% of all Polaris small block motors
will be up to or past .009 cylinder to piston clearance in the first year of ownership.
And Mountain motors that get used alot will have .010 to .015 thousand clearance by the end of the second year. ( In other words completely woren out ) As close to junk as you can get at this point.
The sad facts are this - POlaris almost HAS to have them set up this way or some MORON will cold seize them.
If you understand how to warm up your sled then you should know what Heat Soak means.
( Warm up is NOT about the stupid heat guage getting to 125 degrees. )
If you start a sled at -10 degree f.that has sat all night and let it idle to 125 degree and then take off you have just done about the worst thing you can do to your poor motor. ( other then take-off at -10 of course )
Your 24.3 lb small block 800 crankshaft is still frozen well below zero. and is brittle & very non flexable. ( now imagin that same 24.3 lb warmed up to 125 degrees ) can you possibly get your head around how much more forgiving things are at +125 degrees as they are at -minus zero ?
Once the heat guage gets to 125 you should shut it off and let it sit at least 10 to 20 minutes and let it HEAT SOAK. the heat will move from the warm pistons, cylinder, and anti-freeze into the crankshaft. ( I would hope at this point you have NOT touched the throttle )
After this heat soaking ( The sled BETTER be on a stand ) if you don't have a stand with you then its time you order a good handle lift adjustable stand. Now with the sled on a stand start it up and let the heat guage get back up past 100 degrees or to 120 then SLOWLY appy throttle and roll the track..... most time you will hear ice breaking and chunks clearing themselves.
THIS IS A MAGIC TIME FOR YOUR BELT AND BOTH YOUR CLUTCHES !!
If your one of those guys that either picks the sled up and drops it or heaven forbid just hit the throttle and go...........You truely desire a BLOWEN motor.
unless your sled lives in a heated shop it BETTER be put on a stand and properly warmed up.
All this being said - What am I saying ???
EVERY SMALL BLOCK 800 Needs new pistons after the first year of riding if you rode over 500 miles.
And if you deside NOT to replate and properly have a shop size your cylinder correctly then your samll block needs NEW pistons EVERY SEASON!! PEROID.
Just like a Dirk Bike - Your Polaris small Block weights about 85 pounds and puts out about 140 hp......and properly rebuilt and clearance will get a new Mountain E-Tek all the hell it can imagin.
In my opinion if you are anal and you warm your slked up like you should these motors should be rebuild when they are brand new for maximum performance.
A completely stock properly rebuild Polaris Small block will out perform and fully modded STAGE 2,4,6,8 10 what ever you want to call it that is over the service limit...........The main reason people think they need fuel controls is because the motors piston to cylinder clearace is over the limitand is getting worse because the problem compounds itself.
The more clearance it has the harder they slap and the more they destroy themsleves.
This is the main reason why people rave about the Long Rod motors, Its because the specs and clearances are must better then mass production clearances.
If you feel the power start to go away on a Polaris 800 Small Block, or you can't pull your clutch weights lighter weights or MOD Parts are not the correct path to take.
Fix the cylinder to piston clearance first...... then if you feel you still want to buy aftermarket parts they will actually work better.
( Keep this in mind ) - If you take your sled to ANY shop for motor work ask to talk dirrectly to the shop TECH and ask him this one simple question.
* ( Do You have a Cylinder Bore Guage ? ) * If he even pauses that means he does not. If he says yes ask him to show you it on the shop.
If he doesn't have one your at the wrong shop and your rebuild quaility depends completely on luck........Instead of measurements.
( You must take control of what gets done to your motor )
Polaris does NOT teach there shop TECHS anything about motor rebuilding you have to find a shop that has taken steps to correctly rebuild a motor or send it to a shop that can.
Starting back in 1997, The Polaris 800 Small Block is one of the best Motors Polaris has built to date it just needs to be kept well within spec.
If it starts out at the correct specs this motor runs good for a long period of time.
Dan
Thanks for that input Indy Dan.
What I don't understand is why would Polaris assume we are all morons? Was there really more cold seizure failures compared to skirt failures due to bad tolerances? Even so with computer technology these days why couldn't polaris program the computer to not let you move the sled until the warm up parameters were met?
I know your not a Polaris engineer but it doesn't seem like a good way to go about business assuming your customers are morons.
Now I've never seen a single person at the trail head go through the procedures you have described to properly warm their sleds up. (Including myself.) Not because I don't care but because I've never been taught to do so.
Lastly, is there any fix to this issue with the 800 that wouldn't void the warranty?
I really appreciate your write up. It definitely cleared some things up.
What I don't understand is why would Polaris assume we are all morons? Was there really more cold seizure failures compared to skirt failures due to bad tolerances? Even so with computer technology these days why couldn't polaris program the computer to not let you move the sled until the warm up parameters were met?
I know your not a Polaris engineer but it doesn't seem like a good way to go about business assuming your customers are morons.
Now I've never seen a single person at the trail head go through the procedures you have described to properly warm their sleds up. (Including myself.) Not because I don't care but because I've never been taught to do so.
Lastly, is there any fix to this issue with the 800 that wouldn't void the warranty?
I really appreciate your write up. It definitely cleared some things up.
Thanks for the writeup Dan, always learning from your posts.
OEM parts aside, how about you and the pistons you were evaluating? Do you have a better choice to offer along with LR and/or cylinder work?
Thanks,
R
Oh come on man hahaha...you're not serious are you?
Man your a joke. Get lost
Hi Rune, In response to your question.
This summer I will be offering a wide range of motor packages for the CFI-2 & CFI-4 motors.
Most packages will using a cast OEM type piston so people can easly get them most anywhere.
This spring/early summer I am going to be releasing a new Guide series motor that comes with a 5 year warranty that will use a custom piston that has exceptionaly long service life.
Dan
9
2442 miles on my 2011 before the bottom end PTO side bearing spit out the cage, chewed up the seal and sucked some snow in. Basically destroyed everything except the case. Self rebuild with new crank, cylinder, RKTek 13:1 head and pistons. Rips awesome now...
Nice job Dan.
Why don't you just save everyone a bunch of problems and go work for Polaris. :lol::lol::lol:
What Indy Dan said is very informative but... As someone who is looking for a new sled for next season (currently on a Yamaha) that in no way makes me want to come back to polaris, at least on an 800. The whole fact the the motor should be rebuilt after the first season really keeps me from wanting an 800 polaris. I meanings got 4500 miles on this Yamaha and just finally put new plugs in it. I've test rode a couple pro for a short time and have been really impressed. But I think based on the previous info that a 600 is a better route...
