Summit 850: Ratchet, Slap, Rocks and Carnage!!

06redrevx · Jan 3, 2017

Christopher I was going to ask if you inspected your sons bulkhead when you initially posted that he hit a rock but I assumed you had.
I feel bad for you guys . The 850 looks like the real deal but if I was in the market for a new sled right now I would have some serious second thoughts until they iron out the weaknesses and first year issues.
Hope you get back on the snow soon!

MountainJunkie · Jan 3, 2017

Chris, when your son accidentally tagged that rock at the start of December, did that crack the bulkhead, bend the tunnel and crack the chaincase?

I've watched that video about 100 times and I personally still don't think I can see a hint of that rock hiding in the snow.

toyotamobbin · Jan 3, 2017

christopher said:
My sled and my youngest son's sled both broke the chaincase from direct impact on the bottom.

His remained wet, mine drained out.

Both Tunnels are bent and have to be either replaced or straightened, and the jury is out as to whether they can be straightened or not yet..

His inner and outer chaincase have to be replaced.
My inner and outer and ALL internal parts have to be replaced.

My oldest son broke his Suspension Module, shattered a side panel and punched a hole in the inner clutch cover. We are not certain about suspension damage "Yet", will know soon, but his skis do not line up with each other so at the least the bulkhead is tweaked.

My a-arms were not bent after I broke my s-mod.

NorthMNSledder · Jan 3, 2017

christopher said:
My sled and my youngest son's sled both broke the chaincase from direct impact on the bottom.

His remained wet, mine drained out.

Both Tunnels are bent and have to be either replaced or straightened, and the jury is out as to whether they can be straightened or not yet..

His inner and outer chaincase have to be replaced.
My inner and outer and ALL internal parts have to be replaced.

My oldest son broke his Suspension Module, shattered a side panel and punched a hole in the inner clutch cover. We are not certain about suspension damage "Yet", will know soon, but his skis do not line up with each other so at the least the bulkhead is tweaked.

OK, so knowing you and seeing all of your riding videos and comments in the past you and your boys do not come off as "hard" riders. This makes me question the durability of the new Gen 4 big time. This are not minor issues at all. I know the Doos have always been weak on the front module. But bent tunnels and broken chain cases? Holy crap!!!

Anyway sorry to hear about your luck on these.

1Mike900 · Jan 3, 2017

Chris, sorry for all the carnage between the 3 sleds! But is the tunnels that are tweaked because the back edge behind the chain case is bent inward, or it is tweaked on both sides?
Looks like Skidoo should rivet a 3/16 piece of alum. plate behind the the tunnel straddling around the drive shaft. Then bent into a "L" shape curve underneath the chaincase for added protection. Also is there any room between the bottom of chaincase and the tunnel well it resides in? If so a piece of black closed cell foam cut into the shape of the chaincase and pressed into there should help distribute impact loads? Looks like one could take two pcs. of plate steel one behind the tunnel and another in the old chaincase with a bolt in-between and draw the two back together? Good luck with the 3 sleds. Mike

LoneViper · Jan 3, 2017

Chris, sorry for the problems.
I just wanted to throw something out there. For all those with a cracked bulkhead casting and no real reason, does anybody think it could have anything to do with ice buildup in the skid plate area. I have mine in the garage thawing it out and noticed the dreaded ice build up on top of the skid plate. It seems to me leverage can do strange things. Thoughts?

christopher · Jan 3, 2017

Summit74 said:
Did you have the limiter strap in the stock position? .

Yes
I have NOT begin to play with the suspension yet.

christopher · Jan 3, 2017

Motodrew said:
Sorry to hear, Christopher. Welcome to the 850 E-Module Replacement club! We are growing exponentially every week! :sorry:

To be fair, I can NOT blame this damage on Doo.

We were riding VERY EARLY in powder with absolutely NO BASE whatsoever.

This really is 100% my fault.

But it shows there is significant room for structural improvement with some choice aftermarket Bolt-Ons...

christopher · Jan 3, 2017

MountainJunkie said:
Chris, I'm very sorry to hear about all of this. You're dealing with it like a champ though!

he he he he
Not like I have a whole heck of a lot of choice in the matter.
I LOVE RIDING, so the sleds have to be fixed.

its a learning process and I am starting all over again from the ground up with these new sleds.

christopher · Jan 3, 2017

06redrevx said:
Christopher I was going to ask if you inspected your sons bulkhead when you initially posted that he hit a rock but I assumed you had.
I feel bad for you guys . The 850 looks like the real deal but if I was in the market for a new sled right now I would have some serious second thoughts until they iron out the weaknesses and first year issues.
Hope you get back on the snow soon!

So here is the real question.
Is it FAIR to say its a "weakness" when each of us took some VERY SOLID hits on buried rocks?

These are fairly lightweight 2 stroke sleds, a total blast to play on, but they are NOT BUILT for the kind of abuse we have been dishing out with this crazy early season riding on fluffy powder with absolutely NO BASE at all.

While I would love the sleds to be every bit as tough and over-engineered as my Yammis were, that would destroy the whole point of them being 100-150lbs lighter...

You just can't have it both ways.

Lightweight and bullet proof just don't exist in this sport right now.

christopher · Jan 3, 2017

MountainJunkie said:
Chris, when your son accidentally tagged that rock at the start of December, did that crack the bulkhead, bend the tunnel and crack the chaincase?

I've watched that video about 100 times and I personally still don't think I can see a hint of that rock hiding in the snow.

That rock had it's CLOAKING DEVICE fully engaged. There was NO HINT of it at all on the surface of the snow.

And yes, for my older son's sled, likely ALL of the damage came from that one hit and we just didn't see until it started to open up and get worse from this weekend's ride

christopher · Jan 3, 2017

NorthMNSledder said:
OK, so knowing you and seeing all of your riding videos and comments in the past you and your boys do not come off as "hard" riders. This makes me question the durability of the new Gen 4 big time. This are not minor issues at all. I know the Doos have always been weak on the front module. But bent tunnels and broken chain cases? Holy crap!!!

Anyway sorry to hear about your luck on these.

So, there is really NO WAY that you can HIT the bottom of the chaincase HARD and NOT bend the tunnel since the two are one in the same.

If the chaincase takes a direct hit, it is VERY likely to bend INWARD, and that distorts the tunnel that it is a part of.

I don't like it, but I TOTALLY understand whats happening here.

What we need is some serious ARMOUR just below the chaincase to stop this from happening.

christopher · Jan 3, 2017

1Mike900 said:
Chris, sorry for all the carnage between the 3 sleds! But is the tunnels that are tweaked because the back edge behind the chain case is bent inward, or it is tweaked on both sides?
Looks like Skidoo should rivet a 3/16 piece of alum. plate behind the the tunnel straddling around the drive shaft. Then bent into a "L" shape curve underneath the chaincase for added protection. Also is there any room between the bottom of chaincase and the tunnel well it resides in? If so a piece of black closed cell foam cut into the shape of the chaincase and pressed into there should help distribute impact loads? Looks like one could take two pcs. of plate steel one behind the tunnel and another in the old chaincase with a bolt in-between and draw the two back together? Good luck with the 3 sleds. Mike

Yes.
The tunnel is bent because of the direct hit to the bottom of the chaincase and it collapsing inward into the track. Probably just a function of how the rock hit the chaincase. Direction of travel and side impact of the hidden boulder beneath the snow.

Not really sure about your possible solution.
Would need the sled here to look at it closely to see if that could work or not.

mountainhorse · Jan 3, 2017

Ah... the woes of 1st production year of a new chassis... Of ANY brand... The armor will come this year... and the fixes too.

Did you ride a boulder field ??

.

christopher · Jan 3, 2017

LoneViper said:
Chris, sorry for the problems.
I just wanted to throw something out there. For all those with a cracked bulkhead casting and no real reason, does anybody think it could have anything to do with ice buildup in the skid plate area. I have mine in the garage thawing it out and noticed the dreaded ice build up on top of the skid plate. It seems to me leverage can do strange things. Thoughts?

Don't know.
What I can say is that there is rather MASSIVE ICE BUILDUP on the sidewalls of the tunnel.

WAY MORE than I first appreciated.

I will now make a point of KNOCKING the ice off from time to time during the course of the day to keep that tunnel FULLY OPEN.

Might try spraying the tunnel with some of that Anti-Icing compound that I have seen others comment on.

christopher · Jan 3, 2017

mountainhorse said:
Ah... the woes of 1st production year of a new chassis... Of ANY brand... The armor will come this year... and the fixes too.

Did you ride a boulder field ??

.

Bigger than life we did.

On saturday, I think 6 out of our 10 riders got tossed off their sleds in the same field on Mt. Jefferson.

mountainhorse · Jan 3, 2017

ARGH !!!!

.

NorthMNSledder · Jan 3, 2017

christopher said:
So, there is really NO WAY that you can HIT the bottom of the chaincase HARD and NOT bend the tunnel since the two are one in the same.

If the chaincase takes a direct hit, it is VERY likely to bend INWARD, and that distorts the tunnel that it is a part of.

I don't like it, but I TOTALLY understand whats happening here.

What we need is some serious ARMOUR just below the chaincase to stop this from happening.

But why is the chaincase the lowest part of the sled? The first point of impact in anything you would hit below the sled? That is what I was getting at with my comments. Just seems strange is all.

2Huskies · Jan 3, 2017

MountainJunkie said:
Chris, when your son accidentally tagged that rock at the start of December, did that crack the bulkhead, bend the tunnel and crack the chaincase?

I've watched that video about 100 times and I personally still don't think I can see a hint of that rock hiding in the snow.

Yea the rock was very well hidden. It was just like 3 inches under the snow, but there was no bump or indication. It just sucked haha.

2Huskies · Jan 3, 2017

NorthMNSledder said:
OK, so knowing you and seeing all of your riding videos and comments in the past you and your boys do not come off as "hard" riders. This makes me question the durability of the new Gen 4 big time. This are not minor issues at all. I know the Doos have always been weak on the front module. But bent tunnels and broken chain cases? Holy crap!!!

Anyway sorry to hear about your luck on these.

We are not very hard riders, but I nailed 2 rocks that day that chucked me off. The first one in the video that everyone has seen and the second coming down hill. That second on flipped me forward off the sled in a somersault and twisted the sled 90 degrees in about a half second.

But we were so darn excited to get riding im sure a bit a patience would have saved us some damage.

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