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How can I get a 141 crossfire on top of the snow?

snoluver

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So I'm looking for some advice. I love my 141 for the "fun factor". As long as I keep the ol' girl movin' it's a blast to ride! I love the reliability of the M chassis. I've been debating upgrading for years, but I just couldn't ride a proclimb. Hate them. Can't go back to ski-doo cuzz I hate the way they ride also. PRO's ride awesome, but the dependability is sub par, ...and that's being generous!

All that said, the reality of the situation is ...I'm getting old. I'm tired of getting stuck. Is there a way I could make my trusty steed get up on top like the newer sleds? I want to keep it short, just make it better. I don't want a super long track. I would entertain maybe a 153 skid tops. K-mod, Holtz, Timbersled? What front end? How could I raise the ride height? How can I lighten the steering?

Basically, I'm contemplating turning my 141 XF 800 sno pro into a mod sled, vs upgrading to a newer chassis? I know the alpha's and Mountain Cats are much better than the proclimb, I'm just debating if I could make my current sled work better for a few grand vs spending 13k plus on a new one?

Thoughts? If you were to build a bad ass mod out of an old dependable shorty, where would you start?

Thanks! ....and..go..
 

Coldfinger

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Not sure how tall the track lugs are, but if you have clearance and they sell a track with deeper lugs, that is my first thought.

Next thought is look into extending to a 153 with deeper lugs.
 

snoluver

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I already put a 2.5" powerclaw on it. It trenches and I get stuck more than with the stock track. I'm wondering if there is a way to get these things to climb on top of the snow like a pro does, but still retain the short track fun?
 

snoluver

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Boiled down, I'm curious if it's possible that geometry/skid/front end Mods, could make this thing perform like a newer sled, and still retain the shorty fun and reliability of an M chassis?
 
M
Oct 4, 2015
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Snow Type ??

What are your typical snow conditions? I live in Montana and one of my sleds still is an '11 Crossfire 800ho 141x2.25 PowerClaw. I love riding the "shorty" in early & late snow in up to 3ft of snow, even with the 43" front end with sway-bar. How are your shocks set up? I run HyGears rear linkage kit. Gearing? (mine's 57/63 DD) Clutching? I'm even running the Hill-Climb Racer skis that only float ok, but do bite into the hardpack for some steering & I go pretty much where I want to go until the powder is > 3ft then I get out my Mountain Cat 153x3.0.
 

snoluver

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I usually ride the snowies/Sierra Madres. Typically pretty dry and fluffy. Basically all stock. 125 PSI in the rear, 55-60 psi front. Stock clutching/gearing. Moved front skid mount to lower hole and tightened limiter strap one notch. I can go anywhere I want as long as I have a head of steam. My problem is starting off from a dead stop. The thing just likes to dig a hole. Any kind of sugar snow and forget about it....I'm thinking attack angle is the inherent problem with the stock skid?
 

Mjunkie

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I’m glad to hear I’m not alone loving the shorty! I wish they still made the 141 in a true mountain sled. I’ve dumped lots of $$ into my M for years mainly because I didn’t want to go longer in a new sled. After all the things I’ve done and tried it still won’t go slow in the steep and deep or stop and start without digging a hole but more power definitely helps get it back up on top or get thru a trench to the top of the hill. Just my experience but a 141 just doesn’t float as well. If you have the power to spin that track a lot faster than a stock motor can, lots of times you can get out of the trench and back on top. Probably not what you’re looking for but more power always helps and makes everything more fun!


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MI1M600EFI

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My understanding is that dropping just the front of the skid to the lower hole without dropping the rear tends to make the sled trench more... I'd either raise it back up, or drop the rear as well and see what you think.

I have two M8 153's; one with the skid in the upper (stock) holes, and one with the skid dropped to the lower holes... I don't see much difference between the two in terms of trenching, but the one running the skid in the dropped holes can trench a bit more before it bottoms out. It also sits up out of the snow a bit more, and I can side hill it a little easier, I think...

I ride the wife's 133" Sno Pro Fan sometimes for fun. It's pretty light, but it still doesn't float like the 153's do when the going gets soft. I think there's just not enough track for good flotation. It would be much cooler if it was a 141". :) Flotation is all about spreading the weight over a larger area to get less psi of contact. If a longer track isn't going to work for you, the only thing you can do to make it float better is lighten things up. (Either you or the sled, but you is usually a LOT cheaper, and more effective.) :)

I've spent a decent amount of time riding short tracks in the deep. If you keep the speed up, it'll seem like it floats better. Also, you can't just pin the throttle all the time with an 800. If it's making a trench, let off for a moment and it'll usually pop up on top again. Then get back into the throttle some... Also, full throttle takeoffs in the soft went out of style years ago... Gradual throttle usually gets the job done much better, and a little rocking of the sled as you do it helps if the belly is dragging some. Stop pointed downhill if you can. Or in an old track. Or circle and make a track to stop in if you must...

IMO, it's fun to be the guy on a short track more or less hanging with the longer sleds. Just don't tell them all the tricks you use to make it work! :)
 
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M
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Track

I already put a 2.5" powerclaw on it. It trenches and I get stuck more than with the stock track. I'm wondering if there is a way to get these things to climb on top of the snow like a pro does, but still retain the short track fun?
Maybe you answered your own question; Go back to the 2.25 PC. That's what I run on mine & with throttle control (as mentioned above) trenching is not a problem that I have.
 

CATSLEDMAN1

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I usually ride the snowies/Sierra Madres. Typically pretty dry and fluffy. Basically all stock. 125 PSI in the rear, 55-60 psi front. Stock clutching/gearing. Moved front skid mount to lower hole and tightened limiter strap one notch. I can go anywhere I want as long as I have a head of steam. My problem is starting off from a dead stop. The thing just likes to dig a hole. Any kind of sugar snow and forget about it....I'm thinking attack angle is the inherent problem with the stock skid?


digging a hole taiking off is rider error and clutching !

No tracks or suspension mods are going to help.

your 800 will easily pull 3-3500 engagement, so you need clutching so you can creep away from a standstill in powder. If you are the type of rider that always panics on takeoff and must mash the throttle, nothing will help your M141.

I have owned two 141 m sleds with a variety of tracks and motors, they don't trench, stock clutching ?, never ran it . this subject for m"s has been beat to death on here the last 12 years, all the shop that can fix this will start with CLUTCHING.
 

ultrasks700

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Whats your current track? I'd be on the hunt for a 2.6 Power claw 141"...I really wish they would make a 141 3" i think it would be a ton of fun, in fact i have a feeling we might see some sort of 140-150" alpha for 2020. I'd also Look into revalving your rear skid, the valving on alot of those float skids was way to stiff and a simple revalve will actually make a noticeable difference.
 

snoluver

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Maybe you answered your own question; Go back to the 2.25 PC. That's what I run on mine & with throttle control (as mentioned above) trenching is not a problem that I have.

I miss-spoke in my previous post. I have the 2.25" PC, not a 2.5. The original track was the 1.5 cobra, abd i hosently think i got stuck less with that track!
 

snoluver

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digging a hole taiking off is rider error and clutching !

No tracks or suspension mods are going to help.

your 800 will easily pull 3-3500 engagement, so you need clutching so you can creep away from a standstill in powder. If you are the type of rider that always panics on takeoff and must mash the throttle, nothing will help your M141.

I have owned two 141 m sleds with a variety of tracks and motors, they don't trench, stock clutching ?, never ran it . this subject for m"s has been beat to death on here the last 12 years, all the shop that can fix this will start with CLUTCHING.

I know all about throttle control with a short track. Not to toot my own horn, but most guys are pretty amazed at what I can do on my 141. I do believe my engagement is way too high. Thanks. I'll look into clutching and shock revalving.

One thing I'm curious about though, I see Pro RMK's pop out of holes(facing up-hill even) that I know for a fact a 153 M would not pop out of. I have to assume the reason they work so much better is different geometry. There isn't much difference between a 153 and 155....
 

Mjunkie

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Whats your current track? I'd be on the hunt for a 2.6 Power claw 141"...I really wish they would make a 141 3" i think it would be a ton of fun, in fact i have a feeling we might see some sort of 140-150" alpha for 2020. I'd also Look into revalving your rear skid, the valving on alot of those float skids was way to stiff and a simple revalve will actually make a noticeable difference.



X2! When I went from the 2.25pc to the 2.6pc on both my stock M7 141 and my pumped up M7 141 everything got better IMO.

Side note to ultrasks700:
I really really really really hope you’re right about a 141ish alpha next year! That would be a dream come true for me! But I personally doubt it


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MI1M600EFI

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One thing I'm curious about though, I see Pro RMK's pop out of holes(facing up-hill even) that I know for a fact a 153 M would not pop out of. I have to assume the reason they work so much better is different geometry. There isn't much difference between a 153 and 155....

The PRO RMK's I ride with are 163's, but they have a ~3" paddle. You're right, they'll climb out of a hole like nothing if you don't trench to china. A little tug on the ski and gentle throttle and they're out. If the 155's also have a big paddle, that along with the 50lbs or so less that they weigh compared to an M8 would make a world of difference.

I think it also makes a difference that they sit higher than an M8. Keeps the bodywork and running boards from hanging them up. My more recent M8 has the skid in the lower holes, and it does seem to hang up less than my old sled. I may drop the skid on the old sled front and rear too.

I think you're on the right track (heheh) with the 2.25 powerclaw, but it will trench the way you have the skid set, especially given an 800 to spin it! Drop the rear and see if that helps some. Also, run the front shock a little softer, and pull in the limit strap if it touches down much before the back of the track. :)

One of my Michigan friends used to ride a 121 800 skidoo around on our trips out west. He put a 1.5" paddle on it and just kept it moving. He'd blow buy our stuck "long track" sleds (Usually 136's...) yelling "121 Baby!!!" Ahhh, good times!! :)
 

MI1M600EFI

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I should also add that trenching can be entirely a snow problem as well... The snow we have in SW CO right now has no base. If I really get after it and claw through the slightly setup snow on top, it's trench city no matter what I'm on. There's just no stability to the snow below. Being gentle with the the throttle is the only thing that keeps you on top...

And I'd agree that the old theory of clutching for a big hit at 5000rpm's is probably pretty poor clutching for a modern mountain sled. I've been pushing engagement down farther and farther on the wife's sled, and it works much better at ~4k than it did at 4500. The latest change was to a newer "green" spring, P/N 0648-732. It's a 110/280- vs the yellow/white 122/285. Engagement dropped by ~500rpm's, but top end pretty much stayed right were it was. I might try the gold spring (75/275) next, but I'm afraid the little 440 won't pull that low...

With your crossfire, you could probably go with clutching similar to what I'm running in my '09 M8. I'm using the 229 yellow/white spring, and 695/67 weights that don't have a "bump" to raise engagement. I think it comes in around 3700... The 703/68 weights are also smooth with no bump. The green spring would lower engagement a bit more w/o messing up the top, while the gold spring will drop the bottom out of the engagement speed, and also not change the top by much.
 
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snoluver

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Does anyone know if the the front skid mounting holes and rear drop brackets are different between the M and XF tunnel? I purposely bought a XF in 2010 because I wanted a 141. I'm almost certain I could not fit a 2.6 in my XF tunnel. Barely enough room for the 2.25". I think I would just about be touching the front heat exchanger with a 2.6"...
 

Betterview

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Two things to consider: The skis on your XF are narrower and stiffer than the Polaris skis, the narrow skis are trying to carry a motor and clutch that weigh more than 20 pounds more than than the Polaris. Getting on top of soft snow begins with weight per square inch.
 
J

jim

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I have a m8 pg turbo with 153 2.25 PC. I trenched too. Go back to upper mount holes for skid mount. Run front limiter as long as you can. Front/rear shock to just a bit of preload. Rear/rear shock strong (130psi). And I was a doubter but trimming off outside fingers on track made a nice difference. Crawls better, trenches less and stays on top better. And gear down to 2011 ratio...you will pull more track speed.
 
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