W
Sierra Club Organizer Stabbed.
And no, I'm not suggesting anything, just wondering what people think.
And no, I'm not suggesting anything, just wondering what people think.
Is this were all the land closures are heading?
- Thread starter Wade
- Start date
S
huh?
The article reported that "investigators have yet to determine a motive for the attack," and that the woman was pushing climate change stuff. What makes you think that this crime arose from land use restrictions?
The article reported that "investigators have yet to determine a motive for the attack," and that the woman was pushing climate change stuff. What makes you think that this crime arose from land use restrictions?
washington DC has always had a nasty reputation for violent street crime ... I dbout this was any sort of political thing.
Either way it's bad to hear about things like this.
Either way it's bad to hear about things like this.
W
I guess I assumed to much. If you search for the news story, every article makes a point about her being with the Sierra Club employee, and it possibly being a motive. A couple articles interviewed Sierra employees that were scared now.
She worked on the Mount Rainier National Park, and the Dark Divide Roadless Area in southwest Washington.
She was killed in Seattle.
I thought someone would know if it was politically motivated. I guess the police aint saying.
She worked on the Mount Rainier National Park, and the Dark Divide Roadless Area in southwest Washington.
She was killed in Seattle.
I thought someone would know if it was politically motivated. I guess the police aint saying.
S
Too bad. People don't deserve to die like that. We might not agree with them, we need to beat them in the legislature. I hope the paper isn't pushing the sierra club angle to sell more papers?
W
Along these lines I would recommend the book Savage Run by CJ Box. It is a fictional story about a group of fed up Cattlemen that hire two hitmen to travel around the country and assasinate prominent evironmentalists. It's a pretty good read IMO.
S
"Witnesses describe her attacker as white, about 6 feet tall and in his 40s, Jamieson said. He was wearing baggy pants, a blue parka or athletic-style jacket and a dark knit hat. He may also have been wearing a yellow hooded ski doo sweatshirt."
S
I'm suprised that this type of thing has not happened sooner. The enviro-nazis have been driving nails into trees to hinder logging for years and have injured several loggers. They burn down ski lifts, set fire to SUVs, string cables across trails, and do all sorts of violent acts to promote their religion. It was only a matter of time till they reaped what they sowed.
I don't agree with it (yet) but I sure do understand why it could happen.
I don't agree with it (yet) but I sure do understand why it could happen.
S
guilt by association?
The woman wasn't spiking trees, she was a 'global warming activist' - probably handing out pamphlets.
Just curious, RN, at what point (beyond "yet") do you "agree" with vengeful murder of American Citizens who are guilty only by association?
Keep in mind that snowmobiles have killed numerous innocent bystanders and pedestrians over the years. By your loosely applied "reap what you sow" standard... we're all next.
The woman wasn't spiking trees, she was a 'global warming activist' - probably handing out pamphlets.
Just curious, RN, at what point (beyond "yet") do you "agree" with vengeful murder of American Citizens who are guilty only by association?
Keep in mind that snowmobiles have killed numerous innocent bystanders and pedestrians over the years. By your loosely applied "reap what you sow" standard... we're all next.
S
Any "innocent bystanders and pedestrians" that may have been injured by snowmobiles were done so by accident. Not by intentional malicious acts of environmental terrorism. The Sierra club sanctions and condones acts such as nailing trees. I doubt that her involvement was limited to handing out pamphlets.
Unless you know her personally we are both only speculating as to her "guilt".
I would never condone violence to anyone not actively involved in malicious acts.
I might condone violence in severe cases such as stringing wires across trails to intentionally injure.
And the eco-terrorist view us all as guilty by association. And they don't care who they hurt. So yes, we're all next. It is the nature of terrorism.
Unless you know her personally we are both only speculating as to her "guilt".
I would never condone violence to anyone not actively involved in malicious acts.
I might condone violence in severe cases such as stringing wires across trails to intentionally injure.
And the eco-terrorist view us all as guilty by association. And they don't care who they hurt. So yes, we're all next. It is the nature of terrorism.
S
terrorists everywhere!
Not too long ago, an adult snowmobiler in these parts deliberately assaulted a FS patroller by ramming him with his sled. The injured forest officer required surgery. So no, not all snowmobile victims are accidental. I will dig up the link for this news item if you wish. Does that make all sledders terrorists? By the same token, can you offer any reputable evidence that the Sierra Club organization condones any type of malicious or violent acts? Around here, those people offer free guided nature walks to the public. Now, I don't doubt that there are some folks who think burning SUVs and spiking trees are heroic acts, but it's simply unrealistic to claim that every hand-wringing do-gooder is an eco-terrorist.
Not too long ago, an adult snowmobiler in these parts deliberately assaulted a FS patroller by ramming him with his sled. The injured forest officer required surgery. So no, not all snowmobile victims are accidental. I will dig up the link for this news item if you wish. Does that make all sledders terrorists? By the same token, can you offer any reputable evidence that the Sierra Club organization condones any type of malicious or violent acts? Around here, those people offer free guided nature walks to the public. Now, I don't doubt that there are some folks who think burning SUVs and spiking trees are heroic acts, but it's simply unrealistic to claim that every hand-wringing do-gooder is an eco-terrorist.
S
No need. I'm sure we can dig up all sorts of articles to illustrate our points. An individual act by a lone idiot is hardly comparable to the organized group efforts of hundreds and thousands. There are fantics and morons on both sides of the issues. However it is difficult to believe that even a small portion of eco-terrorist are not active members of any number of environmental groups. Sierra club, ELF, Earth First, Friends of(enter your riding area here)... the list goes on and on. While the Sierra Club mantains some degree of legitmacy, it certainly has a large lunitic fringe. The fact that they do very little to dissuade its members from commiting such acts is paramount to condoning them. They are savy enought to distance themselves and would never publicly promote them. It is unreasonable to think that all the acts are from independant hand-wringing do gooders.
I do not think that every do-gooder is an eco-terrorist. However, every eco-terrorist THINKS that they are do-gooders. And they think that every snowmobiler, dirt biker, jetskier, and ATV rider are one of satan's minons. No matter how environmentally aware they are. The eco-terrorist's acts are largely indiscriminate with total disregard for who is injured. As long as their message is heard.
I do not think that every do-gooder is an eco-terrorist. However, every eco-terrorist THINKS that they are do-gooders. And they think that every snowmobiler, dirt biker, jetskier, and ATV rider are one of satan's minons. No matter how environmentally aware they are. The eco-terrorist's acts are largely indiscriminate with total disregard for who is injured. As long as their message is heard.
S
Oh and just for the record. I am NOT advocating violence towards all card carrying members of environmental groups. I DO fully understand the frustration that might lead someone to boil over and act. But that is in no way condones the action.
I have worked for many years to work within the system towards peaceful co-existence. It is becoming increasingly more difficult and frustrationg.
I have worked for many years to work within the system towards peaceful co-existence. It is becoming increasingly more difficult and frustrationg.
W
I believe the Sierra Club is a bad example, the organization isn't really about the environment anymore, it's about donations. Individuals within the Sierra Club are about the environment. Within a organization as large as the Sierra Club, there are many factions.
Yha, I'm sure we could start a thread in General, and get lots of stories of sledders being attacked. I've seen several over the years.
Yha, I'm sure we could start a thread in General, and get lots of stories of sledders being attacked. I've seen several over the years.
S
build bridges
RN, you first claimed that the Sierra Club organization sanctions and condones malicious acts such as tree spiking. Now you say it just tacitly condones such acts by doing too little to condemn them. What evidence do you have for your modified claim?
It sounds like I'm angling for a fight, but I'm really just trying to make a point, which is -
Even though it may feel good to vent frustration by demonizing our opponents, such venting is actually counterproductive. There is something like 6 or 7 hundred thousand people in that Sierra Club. No doubt some are loonies. But there are others like my brother in law, a cardiologist, who LIKES sleds. (It only took one blue sky mountain ride for that). He is a reasonable person and scary smart. Fortunately we AGREE on most things. I imagine him now bumping into Snowest and reading the claim that he supports and condones ecoterrorism. You've given him a reason to replace a benign attitude toward snowmobilers with outrage. The other problem with unfounded innuendo and shotgun slander is that it mischaracterizes opponents: WE are the ones who suffer if we fail to understand our opponents, if we replace an appreciation of their strengths and weaknesses with canned (misleading) stereotypes.
It is great that you are working in the system RN, even though it has proven to be frustrating to you. I say keep at it. In Calif, for instance, we are finally gaining after years of setbacks. A win once in awhile is very energizing. Note that some of our recent success has come from cordial negotiations with people you have been calling terrorists.
OK rant off. Thanks for listening.
RN, you first claimed that the Sierra Club organization sanctions and condones malicious acts such as tree spiking. Now you say it just tacitly condones such acts by doing too little to condemn them. What evidence do you have for your modified claim?
It sounds like I'm angling for a fight, but I'm really just trying to make a point, which is -
Even though it may feel good to vent frustration by demonizing our opponents, such venting is actually counterproductive. There is something like 6 or 7 hundred thousand people in that Sierra Club. No doubt some are loonies. But there are others like my brother in law, a cardiologist, who LIKES sleds. (It only took one blue sky mountain ride for that). He is a reasonable person and scary smart. Fortunately we AGREE on most things. I imagine him now bumping into Snowest and reading the claim that he supports and condones ecoterrorism. You've given him a reason to replace a benign attitude toward snowmobilers with outrage. The other problem with unfounded innuendo and shotgun slander is that it mischaracterizes opponents: WE are the ones who suffer if we fail to understand our opponents, if we replace an appreciation of their strengths and weaknesses with canned (misleading) stereotypes.
It is great that you are working in the system RN, even though it has proven to be frustrating to you. I say keep at it. In Calif, for instance, we are finally gaining after years of setbacks. A win once in awhile is very energizing. Note that some of our recent success has come from cordial negotiations with people you have been calling terrorists.
OK rant off. Thanks for listening.
S
In an organization the size of the Sierra club there are bound to be hundreds if not thousands of intelligent well meaning, people who would find it reprehensible to spike trees or commit acts of eco-terrorism. I have several good friends who are members and several of them ride as well. However, environmentalism in this country has morphed into a religion and has spawned zealots every bit as scary as any inquisitor, crusader, or nazi.
That does not make your brother-in-law a terrorist or a zealot. I'm sorry if I've implied that. If he reads this I aplologize to him and any other sled riding environmentalist.
However, the mantra that all these organizations espouse is well documented and widely known. They have deified "mother earth" and vilified anyone who, in their eyes, causes her harm. Like any religion there are moderates and radical extremist. They even have their apostles. Men like Al Gore who promote bad science are viewed as saints.
I view my Sierra club friends that enjoy snowmobiles or dirt bikes kind of like Catholics who are pro-choice.
I've enjoyed the discussion.
Thanks
That does not make your brother-in-law a terrorist or a zealot. I'm sorry if I've implied that. If he reads this I aplologize to him and any other sled riding environmentalist.
However, the mantra that all these organizations espouse is well documented and widely known. They have deified "mother earth" and vilified anyone who, in their eyes, causes her harm. Like any religion there are moderates and radical extremist. They even have their apostles. Men like Al Gore who promote bad science are viewed as saints.
I view my Sierra club friends that enjoy snowmobiles or dirt bikes kind of like Catholics who are pro-choice.
I've enjoyed the discussion.
Thanks
W
Seems the police have a guy that confessed. Women hater type.
