New/reman. cylinders

RoostinRyan · Feb 1, 2018

I locked my engine up in my 2012 800 today and am probably going to be needing a cylinder. Where is the cheapest and fastest place to get a replacement? I would like to be able to get it together next week. Thanks.

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XCaSSAULT · Feb 1, 2018

http://www.mt-llc.com

RoostinRyan · Feb 1, 2018

XCaSSAULT said:
http://www.mt-llc.com

Thank you!

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XCaSSAULT · Feb 1, 2018

No prob. I believe last year it was $350 for exchange. Now it’s $399. Still not to bad. They’re the best. They’ll be right on spec wise. Give em a call in the a.m. tell em your in a hurry and you’ll prolly get em by Wednesday.

Might wanna tare into yours first and make sure your cylinders aren’t broke and it’s just a 4 corner seize. So u know you’ll be getting your core money back.

With pistons ranging from $60/piece to $260/piece you could have it back together for around $600-$800

RoostinRyan · Feb 2, 2018

I took the head off already and expected to see a melt down but to my surprise the pistons looked okay from the top. I went lean out of nowhere and trying to baby it back to the road it locked up. (was reading off the charts on my afr and idling high/missing). I'll find out more when I tear it down this weekend but from the top it looks like I stuck a ring.

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XCaSSAULT · Feb 2, 2018

The idling high sounds like a crank seal or possible air leak from somewhere. That would also explain how you were even able to baby it back. (Air leak slowly robbed that side of lub till she locked)

In my experience a cold seize/4 corner, stuck ring or high heat shuts it down right now. Then pop the hood and feel each side of the mono block and the one that’s screaming hot is the victim.

RoostinRyan · Feb 2, 2018

XCaSSAULT said:
The idling high sounds like a crank seal or possible air leak from somewhere. That would also explain how you were even able to baby it back. (Air leak slowly robbed that side of lub till she locked)

In my experience a cold seize/4 corner, stuck ring or high heat shuts it down right now. Then pop the hood and feel each side of the mono block and the one that’s screaming hot is the victim.

That's what I'm thinking. From the top it looked like the ring got hot and turned purple. I ordered pistons/gaskets and crank seals. I'm gonna pull the motor and tear it down. Hoping I see an obvious seal blown or something. I've never locked one up before so if you have any tips or things I should check while I have it apart, lemme know! Last thing I want to do is tear it down twice! Haha

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XCaSSAULT · Feb 2, 2018

The most important thing is figuring out why if went down. At least to the point were your 99% sure you’ve found the answer. What the piston looks like can tell a lot about the story.

What pistons did u go with? Do you have the fix on this sled or not?

RoostinRyan · Feb 2, 2018

XCaSSAULT said:
The most important thing is figuring out why if went down. At least to the point were your 99% sure you’ve found the answer. What the piston looks like can tell a lot about the story.

What pistons did u go with? Do you have the fix on this sled or not?

I don't have a fix kit. I've been running wiseco pro/axys pistons. I got about 120 hours on the stock pistons when I lost compression and rebuilt with the wisecos. I got about 140 hours on them before they locked up but recently did a compression check and had 138 psi in each hole. I definitely suspect an air leak but also don't know if an injector issue could have caused it. I already checked the power valve bellows and didn't find any tears. Seems like the pistons are free in the cylinder as you can wiggle them slightly but the rings don't want to move on the mag side.

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XCaSSAULT · Feb 2, 2018

So your at about 260 hours? I’m guessing that’s around 4,000miles?
That would be in the area of seal damage, so even if not the cause be good idea to replace them now. Injector issue seems unlikely as I would assume a shoty injector would’ve caused some prior symptoms that woulda effected drivability before meltdown.

I’m currently running wossner pistons but after reading this
https://www.snowest.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-433563.html

And having bad luck in other sleds with forged pistons I wish I woulda went with a cast set. Sure there’s some people who swear by wiescos but one things for sure is that if your gonna run forged pistons the risk of a seize is 100times higher. Cast pistons will deffinitly give the knock sensor time to tell u there’s an issue (like crank seal, injector etc etc) before any damage is done.

RoostinRyan · Feb 2, 2018

Yeah I'm at 260 hours total now. I purchased all the seals so I plan on replacing them all. I've had good luck with wiseco pistons in pretty much everything I own but maybe next time I rebuild my top end I may switch back to cast as it seems it's what everyone is recommending now. I'm super cautious on warm up and always let heat saturate before even unloading.

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94fordguy · Feb 3, 2018

ryanlinger said:
Yeah I'm at 260 hours total now. I purchased all the seals so I plan on replacing them all. I've had good luck with wiseco pistons in pretty much everything I own but maybe next time I rebuild my top end I may switch back to cast as it seems it's what everyone is recommending now. I'm super cautious on warm up and always let heat saturate before even unloading.

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I hope you get it back together quick bud! Let us know what you find. I was pretty encouraged with the new mapping in my sled until I lost my lower pulley, gonna have a new one in a couple days and then do some more testing. There's still plenty of winter left!

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RoostinRyan · Feb 3, 2018

94fordguy said:
I hope you get it back together quick bud! Let us know what you find. I was pretty encouraged with the new mapping in my sled until I lost my lower pulley, gonna have a new one in a couple days and then do some more testing. There's still plenty of winter left!

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Thanks man. I'll come out more tomorrow. Should be able to order anything and everything I need monday morning and I'll be back out there soon! My sled was running awesome that day!

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peaceofwork · Feb 3, 2018

ryanlinger said:
Yeah I'm at 260 hours total now. I purchased all the seals so I plan on replacing them all. I've had good luck with wiseco pistons in pretty much everything I own but maybe next time I rebuild my top end I may switch back to cast as it seems it's what everyone is recommending now. I'm super cautious on warm up and always let heat saturate before even unloading.

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What cast Pistons would you go with if you don't run Polaris Pistons? I run forged in most everything I own or vertex cast but I never seen vertex pro Pistons.
Last Weisco pro Pistons I bought were 82.00 each, when I asked about genuine Polaris Pistons at the dealer I was quoted 370.00 each.
Is their a chance your cylinder could still be good? Possibly you just have some piston aluminum transferred to the cylinder walls?
I guess you know about using muriatic acid?

RoostinRyan · Feb 3, 2018

peaceofwork said:
What cast Pistons would you go with if you don't run Polaris Pistons? I run forged in most everything I own or vertex cast but I never seen vertex pro Pistons.
Last Weisco pro Pistons I bought were 82.00 each, when I asked about genuine Polaris Pistons at the dealer I was quoted 370.00 each.
Is their a chance your cylinder could still be good? Possibly you just have some piston aluminum transferred to the cylinder walls?
I guess you know about using muriatic acid?

I would probably go with pro x pistons if I switched back to cast. They sell them on wisecos website for 99 bucks. I really would have a hard time switching just for the fact that I've always had good luck with forged pistons. I had 138ish psi of compression at about 1500 miles on forged pistons vs 105 psi at 1500 miles with the stock cast ones. This seizure appears to be caused by an air leak by most of the symptoms. I bought wiseco pro lites again because they run killer.

Im hoping the cylinder is usable. I do have some muriatic acid if I need to clean some aluminum off the plating. From what I've seen the cylinder looks good but it's still on the sled so I cant say for sure. I'm gonna pull the motor tomorrow and tear it down. If my cylinder is trashed I'm tempted to buy a good used cylinder and have mine repaired just to have a spare and get through the season.

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peaceofwork · Feb 3, 2018

XCaSSAULT said:
http://www.mt-llc.com

I had my buddy's 11 assult monoblock cylinder done by FASTENTERPRISES their in Manitoba I think it was , they are a Canadian division of millenium and I was able to request an extra fine Finnish on the boars after discribeing Indy dans H7 finish. When Pistons and cylinders came back I took them into my local machinest to be measured/double checked 4995 was specked on the piston box and I had asked for 4995+ And 5000 max... I got it and it was a good looking job that held out even after losing a set of Pistons I was able to clean up the bores with acid and drop in new Pistons and run it. Ports were all chamfered nicely no complaints at all , for what it worth my stuff came back in a millenium tec box.
Any one else tryed Kelly at fast enterprises? It's better than CVTEC or monguse machine if you don't want to exchange Canadian funds to us funds

peaceofwork · Feb 3, 2018

What do you try to run for piston to sidewall clearance and ring end gaps?

XCaSSAULT · Feb 3, 2018

Book calls for .0047-.0057 sidewall and .017-.025 ring gap.
With forged pistons I try to aim for the high end of that, closer to .0057 and at least .022 ring.

Then I like to do at least 3 heat cycles of 120 degrees with 5-6hours of cool down for heat soak. After that it’s 50 miles of hard ditch bangin with a lot of varied throttle/no consistent throttle and half a tank of pre-mix 50:1

Then when u know the oil in the oil tank is going down as referenced by my pencil mark I consider it broke-in

RoostinRyan · Feb 4, 2018

I cant remember what Wiseco recommended for sidewall clearance and ring gap. I want to say the sidewall clearance was close to .006". I can answer what it says when I get my rebuild kit in the next couple days.

Merlin · Feb 4, 2018

Just curious why you went with Fast Ent. over CV Tech?

peaceofwork said:
I had my buddy's 11 assult monoblock cylinder done by FASTENTERPRISES their in Manitoba I think it was , they are a Canadian division of millenium and I was able to request an extra fine Finnish on the boars after discribeing Indy dans H7 finish. When Pistons and cylinders came back I took them into my local machinest to be measured/double checked 4995 was specked on the piston box and I had asked for 4995+ And 5000 max... I got it and it was a good looking job that held out even after losing a set of Pistons I was able to clean up the bores with acid and drop in new Pistons and run it. Ports were all chamfered nicely no complaints at all , for what it worth my stuff came back in a millenium tec box.
Any one else tryed Kelly at fast enterprises? It's better than CVTEC or monguse machine if you don't want to exchange Canadian funds to us funds

New/reman. cylinders

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