* New Release * Long Rod Torque Master 5 Dragon Motor

Mark's RMK · Mar 7, 2012

zPiston Side Loading?

What exactly is poston side loading and why does this kit or the one from RKT help resolve it? Indy Dan's kit has longer rods and that seems to make sense that it would help resolve the cylinder skirt issue.

What does the lighter piston in the RKT kit do for piston side loading?

Sorry to ask what might appear to be fairly self evident questions but I like to understand the engineering logic behind these tweaks before I pop for $.

indydan · Mar 7, 2012

hilinerider said:
well she didn't make it dan, broke the skirt on the pto piston, which broke off the monoblock skirt which the rod put thru the bottom of the block, dam it

Sorry to hear that HiLine, we can fix it up this summer.

Marks RMk - It does mater what kind of piston you run or how much you change it.........The rod ratio is bad ( The rod is to short )

Its simple math. ( all the piston changes in world will not correct the rod ratio problem. )

Polaris obviously hired a bunch of young engineers that think they know more then they really do.

Dan

indydan · Mar 7, 2012

Price point Dragon Pro 800

Basic Long Rod Conversion if you send in a running 800 with a good crankshaft & Crankcase.

This Includes Torque Master Top-End with new pistons & Gaskets. & Long Rod Torque Master Bottom-End.

2 year Top-end & Bottom-end Warranty - $2500.00

This Price is assuming all your parts are rebuildable.

Dan

Mark's RMK · Mar 7, 2012

Loading?

indydan said:
Sorry to hear that HiLine, we can fix it up this summer.

Marks RMk - It does mater what kind of piston you run or how much you change it.........The rod ratio is bad ( The rod is to short )

Its simple math. ( all the piston changes in world will not correct the rod ratio problem. )

Polaris obviously hired a bunch of young engineers that think they know more then they really do.

Dan

So, maybe what you are really saying it's front to back loading, the force is in the same plane as the rod? Hence the piston scuffing and loading on the cylinder skirts. And it's not left to right which I would interpret as side loading? Probably answered my own question but I want to make sure I understand what alot of folks must already understand.

If the rods are blue that means they are rotating around the piston too much, generating heat and if you change the length you can cut down enough on the angle of rotation to cut down on the heat generation? And 4 cycle engines with their short pistons must be different because of the oiling differences between 2 and 4 cycle engines?

Thanks in advance for your patience on my questions.

hilinerider · Mar 7, 2012

indydan said:
Basic Long Rod Conversion if you send in a running 800 with a good crankshaft & Crankcase.

This Includes Torque Master Top-End with new pistons & Gaskets. & Long Rod Torque Master Bottom-End.

2 year Top-end & Bottom-end Warranty - $2500.00

This Price is assuming all your parts are rebuildable.

Dan

i think some of mine won't be:face-icon-small-sho
i'll send in all to you so we can do the same as my 800ves
thanks dan!

hilinerider · Mar 7, 2012

Mark's RMK said:
So, maybe what you are really saying it's front to back loading, the force is in the same plane as the rod? Hence the piston scuffing and loading on the cylinder skirts. And it's not left to right which I would interpret as side loading? Probably answered my own question but I want to make sure I understand what alot of folks must already understand.

If the rods are blue that means they are rotating around the piston too much, generating heat and if you change the length you can cut down enough on the angle of rotation to cut down on the heat generation? And 4 cycle engines with their short pistons must be different because of the oiling differences between 2 and 4 cycle engines?

Thanks in advance for your patience on my questions.

exactly, if you have the top end off and hold the rod and rotate the crank you get a real good idea of how steep the angle is , why they chose to build it that way in the first place is beyond me, seems basic when you look at it

Going West · Mar 9, 2012

From what I understand the M8 motor runs more rod ratio then the Poo 800, why do their motors last and not the poo's.

Angermangement890 · Mar 9, 2012

Going West said:
From what I understand the M8 motor runs more rod ratio then the Poo 800, why do their motors last and not the poo's.

The Cat 800 motors do run a shorter rod than the Polaris. The difference is in the piston/cylinder. The cat piston is taller and the pin is located lower and offset to reduce side loading. The cylinder skirts are also about 2 times thicker than the Polaris cylinder skirt. So if you build beefy parts around the crappy rod ratio, they can be made to last.

racerdave · Mar 14, 2012

Dan, you said "Every part used can be bought from a Polaris dealer except the connecting rods & the cylinder spacer." I'm not trying to catch you on anything, but a dealer can sell aftermarket parts. Are the piston's you are using OEM 800cfi pistons?

indydan · Mar 17, 2012

racerdave said:
Dan, you said "Every part used can be bought from a Polaris dealer except the connecting rods & the cylinder spacer." I'm not trying to catch you on anything, but a dealer can sell aftermarket parts. Are the piston's you are using OEM 800cfi pistons?

Dave, I do not run wisecos in any polaris domestic motors. ( Is this what you are asking ? )

Attached is few pictures of Our CFI4 Torque Master Top-End Kit after strength modifications.

The Engine kits we offer for all Polaris 800 small blocks are all about long gevity. For those who have not seen a stock cylinder to understand what has been done here I will post a picture of a stock cylinder also.

Dan

racerdave · Mar 17, 2012

Dan, I'm asking what pistons you are using? Thanks, Dave

indydan said:
Dave, I do not run wisecos in any polaris domestic motors. ( Is this what you are asking ? )

Attached is few pictures of Our CFI4 Torque Master Top-End Kit after strength modifications.

The Engine kits we offer for all Polaris 800 small blocks are all about long gevity. For those who have not seen a stock cylinder to understand what has been done here I will post a picture of a stock cylinder also.

Dan

indydan · Mar 17, 2012

I need stock cylinder pictures.

I checked and I don't have any unmodified cylinders right now.

Can someone take a few pictires of a 08,09, or 2010 cylinder bottom at simlar angles to what I took ?

Thank you.

Dan

racerdave said:
Dan, I'm asking what pistons you are using? Thanks, Dave

Dave, at this point I have 3 different Cast pistons I am running in the TM Top-end Kit the verdit is still out on which one I will lock in with. But as I said before and parts can be purchased from a dealer because the OEM pin location & dome shape is the same. I am hoping to be locking in on an after market cast to keep the cost down for replacement pistons with hopes of taking away sales from Polaris.

Does that answer your question Dave ?

Dan

racerdave · Mar 17, 2012

"Does that answer your question Dave ? " More or less:face-icon-small-hap

I guess I was wanting to know if it was a Polaris oem cast piston or otherwise. Dave

sled_guy · Mar 17, 2012

Dan, I don't have pictures exactly like your angles, but you can see on this website the differences from the stock cylinder.

http://www.polarisindustriessucks.com/

sled_guy

indydan · Mar 18, 2012

Stock cylinder

sled_guy said:
Dan, I don't have pictures exactly like your angles, but you can see on this website the differences from the stock cylinder.

http://www.polarisindustriessucks.com/

sled_guy

Thanks Dan.

See photo sled_guy found of a stock cylinder

PaulAnd · Mar 19, 2012

indydan said:
Dave, I do not run wisecos in any polaris domestic motors. ( Is this what you are asking ? )

Attached is few pictures of Our CFI4 Torque Master Top-End Kit after strength modifications.

The Engine kits we offer for all Polaris 800 small blocks are all about long gevity. For those who have not seen a stock cylinder to understand what has been done here I will post a picture of a stock cylinder also.

Dan

Does the case need to be clearanced? And how much for cylinder/jug? Nice work!

indydan · Mar 19, 2012

Cylinder Clearance

PaulAnd said:
Does the case need to be clearanced? And how much for cylinder/jug? Nice work!

Hi Paul, Thank you.

The case does not need to be clearanced its a direct bolt-on.

Price - A Torque Master Top-End Kit is - $895.00 exchange. Kit includes Cylinder & 2 Piston Kits.

Dan

indydan · Mar 19, 2012

hilinerider said:
exactly, if you have the top end off and hold the rod and rotate the crank you get a real good idea of how steep the angle is , why they chose to build it that way in the first place is beyond me, seems basic when you look at it

OPPS!!! Yes you would be correct...... As HiLineRider said if you saw one apart you can see what I mean. ( shorter rods are at steeper angles when the piston is low in the bore )

And when I say side loading I do mean front to back of the motor.

When I say side I mean the front side of the cylinder.

When you talk rod ratios your concern is what is going on from a rotational stand point ( hence ) Front & Back side of the Motor.

Sorry about not making that clear.

Dan

backman · Mar 19, 2012

Confused

So if I have a running 2011 800 CFI-2, what will it take as a minimum, to get it safe? Cylinder, rods, and crank work? No modification of case is necessary? Using original pistons?

Regards Fredrik

LoudHandle · Mar 19, 2012

Just curious how you add the bridge between the front and back skirts? It looks like there is a much smoother transition on your updated cylinders, do you press a sleeve in or add weld to the stock cylinder skirts or achieve it by some other means?

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