1996 XCR 600 Light Mod-Help/suggestions

sledheader · May 24, 2016

So I just picked up a 1996 XCR 600 last night for a good price and I'm thinking of lightly modding it to make it halfway fun for someone to ride if I have an extra that wants to come along. I literally haven't even unloaded it yet so I know almost nothing about it other than it runs and has SLP triples on it. I think I'll start by pulling the clutches both apart and cleaning them up good and inspecting parts. The guy I got it from inherited it and he put the pipes on but I doubt any clutching or jetting was done at that time. What should I be looking at for clutching and jetting to run from 5000-8000 feet?

I have a bit of leftover blue metallic paint so I think I might sand down the hood and sticking some paint to it since the hood is scratched and gouged but doesn't look to have any cracks in it. The goal is to not spend too much money on it but still make it look decent (Mod wedge chassis look awesome IMO) and run good enough that a novice rider can have a good time on it once or twice a winter.

New to modding the wedge chassis but always loved the look of them so any and all input is welcomed!

EDIT: To me it seems like it would be beneficial to basically raise the entire chassis a couple of inches to help it get out of the snow a little better. Any easy/cheap ways of doing this? I'm ok will trying my hand at fabbing some things up as well rather than buying.

Here it is as it sits.

sno*jet · May 24, 2016

triple/triples are cool but would be disaster to try and get a novice to keep up with you in the mountains on one.

theres a bunch of info in here, scroll through the pages...

i have two sets of "gen2" spindles laying around here if you want some.

they are fast sleds, fix it up to enjoy it for yourself i would suggest.

sledheader · May 24, 2016

sno*jet said:
triple/triples are cool but would be disaster to try and get a novice to keep up with you in the mountains on one.

theres a bunch of info in here, scroll through the pages...

i have two sets of "gen2" spindles laying around here if you want some.

they are fast sleds, fix it up to enjoy it for yourself i would suggest.

No way am I expecting a novice to keep up. I just want something that can be ridden and fun can be had on.

I've been scrolling and looking and scrolling and looking. Lots of sweet pics and new ideas. Most of the really nice ones have way more money in them than I am willing to dump into an old one.

How much taller are the gen 2 spindles? What do you want for them?

sledheader · May 24, 2016

Few more pics. Got it unloaded tonight and it's really in pretty decent shape for the age. Gonna sand and paint the hood and need to clean carbs and see what jets are in it. It's real hard cold starting then seems to run pretty good once it's going other than it loads up a little and idle falls after awhile. Gonna start with carbs and see what happens when I get them cleaned up

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Reeb · May 24, 2016

Some Ekholm II skis! Beauty! MODS plastic skins will bolt onto these with a little finesse so you do have a place to buy replacement skins if need be. Or update to a all plastic ski that will bend and bounce back if you hit something.

There's a number of things you can do if you have the time and patience to put it all together.
I want to say that the front shocks off a Vector or RX-1 will fit under that sled. Lots of guys with Floats or Ohlins on those sleds and we all know they aren't worth anything anymore(I know I have a Vector!) These shocks will lift the front end up an inch or so only. But pretty much exactly what you need.

As for a rear skid, find something from a modern sled(8 or so years to new) and make some drop brackets and bolt that puppy in there. It looks like it's a factory 133" so unfortunately with a new sled will have to come a new track. Depends on how long you want to go but I'd keep it under 144" personally. You're not building a hillclimber, just something fun to bang around on right? If you do decide on a new track new extrovert drivers would also be a great upgrade.(Don't need to be expensive Avids, some Wahl Bros would do the job just fine)

We used to slide steel rounds down the rolled edge of the boards to strengthen them but with what we know nowadays I'd probably try my hand at bolting on some tube boards or some Pro extruded ones.

I hated the handlebars on these older sleds and always upgraded to MX style bars cut down. However now with so many aftermarket shops selling handlebars I'd go the CFR or RSI route. Add some rise to it and try to do something about the low seat. You can do anything from building a box for the seat to mount to and have 4-6+ of storage. Buying a Edge seat(will work without too much hassle at all) to fitting a newer Dragon tank and seat on her which will need a new steering hoop but make the sled 10x better feeling. A lot of guys took the '04-05 Pro-X seats and bolted them on. I don't think the tank changed much at all so like the Edge seat they are almost a direct bolt on.

But before all of that I'd strip the sled down and make sure it's mechanically sound.
-Driveshaft bearings
-Jackshaft bearings
-Suspension bushings and balljoints
-Steering bushings
-Engine mounts
-Rivets in the tunnel and bulkhead
-Idler wheel bearings
-Clutches gone through and freshened up

When I take a sled of similar vintage apart I usually swap out all the bolts as well. Corrosion is a big thing and sometimes we take these sleds into places that they might not come out of if they aren't up to spec.

sno*jet · May 25, 2016

sledheader said:
How much taller are the gen 2 spindles? What do you want for them?

about an inch iirc. nice thing is they dont mess with geometry at all. $20 for the set.
what motor is in it, xlt or case reed valve?
i like to gut the hood completely, guage pod, light, everything, remove the steel hinges, replace them with hood straps. piece of plexiglass to fill the pod hole.
i like the white.

sledheader · May 25, 2016

Reeb said:
Some Ekholm II skis! Beauty! MODS plastic skins will bolt onto these with a little finesse so you do have a place to buy replacement skins if need be. Or update to a all plastic ski that will bend and bounce back if you hit something.

There's a number of things you can do if you have the time and patience to put it all together.
I want to say that the front shocks off a Vector or RX-1 will fit under that sled. Lots of guys with Floats or Ohlins on those sleds and we all know they aren't worth anything anymore(I know I have a Vector!) These shocks will lift the front end up an inch or so only. But pretty much exactly what you need.

As for a rear skid, find something from a modern sled(8 or so years to new) and make some drop brackets and bolt that puppy in there. It looks like it's a factory 133" so unfortunately with a new sled will have to come a new track. Depends on how long you want to go but I'd keep it under 144" personally. You're not building a hillclimber, just something fun to bang around on right? If you do decide on a new track new extrovert drivers would also be a great upgrade.(Don't need to be expensive Avids, some Wahl Bros would do the job just fine)

We used to slide steel rounds down the rolled edge of the boards to strengthen them but with what we know nowadays I'd probably try my hand at bolting on some tube boards or some Pro extruded ones.

I hated the handlebars on these older sleds and always upgraded to MX style bars cut down. However now with so many aftermarket shops selling handlebars I'd go the CFR or RSI route. Add some rise to it and try to do something about the low seat. You can do anything from building a box for the seat to mount to and have 4-6+ of storage. Buying a Edge seat(will work without too much hassle at all) to fitting a newer Dragon tank and seat on her which will need a new steering hoop but make the sled 10x better feeling. A lot of guys took the '04-05 Pro-X seats and bolted them on. I don't think the tank changed much at all so like the Edge seat they are almost a direct bolt on.

But before all of that I'd strip the sled down and make sure it's mechanically sound.
-Driveshaft bearings
-Jackshaft bearings
-Suspension bushings and balljoints
-Steering bushings
-Engine mounts
-Rivets in the tunnel and bulkhead
-Idler wheel bearings
-Clutches gone through and freshened up

When I take a sled of similar vintage apart I usually swap out all the bolts as well. Corrosion is a big thing and sometimes we take these sleds into places that they might not come out of if they aren't up to spec.

Man this is long term! Long term this may end up being the goal as I slowly can find and collect cheap parts off of used part out projects. I'll start where you said with a tear down of parts and making sure things are up to snuff and go from there. Thanks for the reply.

I've got a set of all plastic skis off of a 1997 RMK that need some wear bars that I think I'll put on there to replace them.

sledheader · May 25, 2016

sno*jet said:
about an inch iirc. nice thing is they dont mess with geometry at all. $20 for the set.
what motor is in it, xlt or case reed valve?
i like to gut the hood completely, guage pod, light, everything, remove the steel hinges, replace them with hood straps. piece of plexiglass to fill the pod hole.
i like the white.

PM me and I'll throw in enough to cover shipping in a USPS flat rate box if you would like to sell.

Its an XLT motor...is this good or bad?

I would like to keep the function of having a light on the sled. You never know when you might be out after dark! Maybe mount an LED?

The white would look good if it didn't have peeling paint that has been "filled in" with what appears to be some sort of water based finger paint lol. Hard to see in the pics but if you look close you can see several spots that this is the case. I have a metallic blue leftover from painting a pickup, so that's what I'm going to go with. Plus I think this looks pretty sweet!

TRS · May 25, 2016

Be careful adding longer shocks to the pre 97 Wedge IFS. Longer shocks on the old wedge chassis trailing arm have a tendency to scrub hard giving a dangerous affect to handling. Ted added 1 1/2" longer shocks to his pre 97 wedge chassis that scrubbed hard enough it threw him off the trail into a tree, breaking his wrist.
Second, be careful adding a new style long travel suspension to this chassis. With the stock IFS configuration you will get way more transfer than you can handle. Longer lower end spindles and a taller ski saddle would be in order to keep balance between front and rear suspensions. Not longer shocks up front.
There is a balance you must achieve when modding the wedge. Step outside that balance and you will be very disappointed.

sledheader · May 25, 2016

TRS said:
Be careful adding longer shocks to the pre 97 Wedge IFS. Longer shocks on the old wedge chassis trailing arm have a tendency to scrub hard giving a dangerous affect to handling. Ted added 1 1/2" longer shocks to his pre 97 wedge chassis that scrubbed hard enough it threw him off the trail into a tree, breaking his wrist.
Second, be careful adding a new style long travel suspension to this chassis. With the stock IFS configuration you will get way more transfer than you can handle. Longer lower end spindles and a taller ski saddle would be in order to keep balance between front and rear suspensions. Not longer shocks up front.
There is a balance you must achieve when modding the wedge. Step outside that balance and you will be very disappointed.

I was taking a quick look yesterday and go ahead and call me crazy if that's what this idea is.

What about changing mounting locations for the front shocks, bring the front end up say 1", then go the the back and build new brackets where the skid attaches and drop the skid down the same amount? Without a drop and roll you would have to roll the brackets forward a little which would change the approach angle but might add a little more transfer or "fun factor". Anybody think this would be possible or beneficial if it was possible?

Reeb · May 25, 2016

We used to swap shocks and suspensions on older '97 RMK's and a few XLT's back in the day when we were just out of highschool. Around 2003-2005 and had a blast figuring stuff out. We used Ski-Doo ZX shocks on these primarily and I just recently swapped out my Floats from my Vector into a ZX chassis I'm building. They were a perfect fit hence my suggestion.

As far as rear skids, a '03 Edge skid would not be advisable, however the newer skids aren't set so high so I wouldn't worry about bolting in a newer skid with some drop brackets. I've done plenty of Cat swaps from mid to late 90's ZR's with newer M-Series skids with no ill effects.

We don't trail ride a whole lot though, just on our way to the mountains, so trail characteristics are an afterthought for us. With that being said, the only time we pile them up in the weeds is when we are going way too fast for that old iron anyways. Keep your head on your shoulders and ride within the limits of the sled and you'll be fine.

Come to think about it I believe the last Wedge we converted was a 580 XLT that got ZX shocks, Polaris Edge skis, Edge fuel tank and custom seat. I want to say we put a '05 Summit skid under it and a 144" track. Was a blast and my buddy still has it as a spare sled. Triple pipes and a Cat t secondary and that sled still surprises us!

But if you're apprehensive doing what we have done, I do remember building top shock brackets that mounted the shock an inch lower than stock on one or two of the ones we built.
Whatever you do, just make sure the sled is solid and reliable and ride it as is if you want. The big thing is the seat and handlebars. Raise both by a few inches at least and have some fun!

sledheader · May 25, 2016

Reeb said:
We used to swap shocks and suspensions on older '97 RMK's and a few XLT's back in the day when we were just out of highschool. Around 2003-2005 and had a blast figuring stuff out. We used Ski-Doo ZX shocks on these primarily and I just recently swapped out my Floats from my Vector into a ZX chassis I'm building. They were a perfect fit hence my suggestion.

As far as rear skids, a '03 Edge skid would not be advisable, however the newer skids aren't set so high so I wouldn't worry about bolting in a newer skid with some drop brackets. I've done plenty of Cat swaps from mid to late 90's ZR's with newer M-Series skids with no ill effects.

We don't trail ride a whole lot though, just on our way to the mountains, so trail characteristics are an afterthought for us. With that being said, the only time we pile them up in the weeds is when we are going way too fast for that old iron anyways. Keep your head on your shoulders and ride within the limits of the sled and you'll be fine.

Come to think about it I believe the last Wedge we converted was a 580 XLT that got ZX shocks, Polaris Edge skis, Edge fuel tank and custom seat. I want to say we put a '05 Summit skid under it and a 144" track. Was a blast and my buddy still has it as a spare sled. Triple pipes and a Cat t secondary and that sled still surprises us!

But if you're apprehensive doing what we have done, I do remember building top shock brackets that mounted the shock an inch lower than stock on one or two of the ones we built.
Whatever you do, just make sure the sled is solid and reliable and ride it as is if you want. The big thing is the seat and handlebars. Raise both by a few inches at least and have some fun!

Those are some good ideas and the only apprehension stems from the fact that I don't want to get too much $$ into this thing. Over time when I find the right deal on a new skid I may swap it in.

I was planning to raise the bars and the seat to start with. I believe I'll have to cut the stearing column and weld on a flange on both ends, then I can build a block that'll raise them up.

What're the suggestions on the seat? what would be the best way to go about raising it? Besides putting on a pro seat or something similar.

Reeb · May 25, 2016

The risers should be more straight forward than that. Check out RSI or ROX products and they will get you going. An extended brake and/or throttle extension wil lbe needed if you go higher than say 2-3".

As for a seat, I'd do it a very different ways;

Build an aluminum box the length and width of the stock seat 4-6" deep. Use velcro to attach the seat to the top of the box. Hinged on one side and you now have a sizable compartment for snobunje's, tiedowns, safety gear etc etc.

Or go to an upholestry shop and buy sections of a 2" closed cell foam sheet. Get the shop to cut two pieces to size and attach to the bottom of the seat. Re-Cover the seat and re-install on sled.

Even a stock Edge seat from a Vertical Escape(2003-2005) is a little higher than the trail models and earlier Edge sleds. The Pro-X seat is the stock seat you'd really be after if you went that route though.

Or find a used Boss seat if they are still around, there's always a chance of that too.

sno*jet · May 25, 2016

sledheader said:
PM me and I'll throw in enough to cover shipping in a USPS flat rate box if you would like to sell.

Its an XLT motor...is this good or bad?

I would like to keep the function of having a light on the sled. You never know when you might be out after dark! Maybe mount an LED?

The white would look good if it didn't have peeling paint that has been "filled in" with what appears to be some sort of water based finger paint lol. Hard to see in the pics but if you look close you can see several spots that this is the case. I have a metallic blue leftover from painting a pickup, so that's what I'm going to go with. Plus I think this looks pretty sweet!

ill pm ya on the spindles. dont really care about the money, but theres a reason i hang on to this stuff i guess. its just good to see another 20 year old sled getting some lovin! I did my 96 ultra on the cheap, and it still puts a huge smile on my face, i will never sell it!
i have always gone against the grain on swapping in newer skids on these that are not coupled. but i ride mine on steep stuff still. an un-coupled edge skid would be fine for riding wheelies tho. you can always take the rear coupler blocks out of yours if you like that.
the x-10 was a good skid imo. very strong for jumping. i took my 133 out to 159 using tracks usa extensions and a mere 3/4" setback/drop. As TRS said, dont mess with the balance of it too much, or it could turn into a pig.
i found the newer rear wheels off maybe an '10ish rmk will work with these extensions, as they put a 1/2" kick-up or so in them for trail handling, which only makes it wheelie more when climbing. In fact edge skids had a kick up in the section of rail, back when they were too scared about messing with trail handling. nowadays the rails are straight. Also, skids are migrating back to coupled designs...
anyway, heres a couple pics of my skid. I found an entire XLT on craigslist for $200, full of Tison chromo suspension parts front and rear. parted the whole thing out. I weighed my 159 skid at 40 lbs even. notice the larger rear wheels still dont touch the surface.

retiredpop · May 26, 2016

sledheader said:
So I just picked up a 1996 XCR 600 last night for a good price and I'm thinking of lightly modding it to make it halfway fun for someone to ride if I have an extra that wants to come along. I literally haven't even unloaded it yet so I know almost nothing about it other than it runs and has SLP triples on it. I think I'll start by pulling the clutches both apart and cleaning them up good and inspecting parts. The guy I got it from inherited it and he put the pipes on but I doubt any clutching or jetting was done at that time. What should I be looking at for clutching and jetting to run from 5000-8000 feet?

I have a bit of leftover blue metallic paint so I think I might sand down the hood and sticking some paint to it since the hood is scratched and gouged but doesn't look to have any cracks in it. The goal is to not spend too much money on it but still make it look decent (Mod wedge chassis look awesome IMO) and run good enough that a novice rider can have a good time on it once or twice a winter.

New to modding the wedge chassis but always loved the look of them so any and all input is welcomed!

EDIT: To me it seems like it would be beneficial to basically raise the entire chassis a couple of inches to help it get out of the snow a little better. Any easy/cheap ways of doing this? I'm ok will trying my hand at fabbing some things up as well rather than buying.

Here it is as it sits.

We just used the setup on the SLP website for clutching. It worked very well. For some really weird reason I had to drop down to #25 pilot jets in order to get rid of a low end bog. However this was with 34mm carbs. I believe you will have the 38mm carbs. As for jetting I found the SLP specs were quite rich so it took a little time to dial it in. Make sure your belt deflection and the belt to primary sheave clearance is set to specs.
Seeing as how you have the monoblock engine and 1996 was one of the worst offenders for crank issues you should address the oiling problem of the bearings. Split the case and enlarge and chamfer the oiling holes at the very least. Turn up the oil pump setting while you are at it.

sledheader · May 26, 2016

sno*jet said:
ill pm ya on the spindles. dont really care about the money, but theres a reason i hang on to this stuff i guess. its just good to see another 20 year old sled getting some lovin! I did my 96 ultra on the cheap, and it still puts a huge smile on my face, i will never sell it!
i have always gone against the grain on swapping in newer skids on these that are not coupled. but i ride mine on steep stuff still. an un-coupled edge skid would be fine for riding wheelies tho. you can always take the rear coupler blocks out of yours if you like that.
the x-10 was a good skid imo. very strong for jumping. i took my 133 out to 159 using tracks usa extensions and a mere 3/4" setback/drop. As TRS said, dont mess with the balance of it too much, or it could turn into a pig.
i found the newer rear wheels off maybe an '10ish rmk will work with these extensions, as they put a 1/2" kick-up or so in them for trail handling, which only makes it wheelie more when climbing. In fact edge skids had a kick up in the section of rail, back when they were too scared about messing with trail handling. nowadays the rails are straight. Also, skids are migrating back to coupled designs...
anyway, heres a couple pics of my skid. I found an entire XLT on craigslist for $200, full of Tison chromo suspension parts front and rear. parted the whole thing out. I weighed my 159 skid at 40 lbs even. notice the larger rear wheels still dont touch the surface.

Returned your PM.

That's a good looking sled you have there! As I said in my email, I may be interested in a track from you, but at this time I would like to get things cleaned up and running right before I start looking at mods. I am really hoping to not spend to much on this, read: I'm trying not to let it get too out of hand.

The best part about this is my fiance who I have not been able to have contact with since last sunday is going to be "excited" that I have added a new pony to the stable while she has been gone all unbeknownst to her

I figure I'll start small and get it cleaned up and painted since that will cost $0 and hopefully get it all running right, then go from there with mods and see where we end up.

sledheader · May 26, 2016

retiredpop said:
We just used the setup on the SLP website for clutching. It worked very well. For some really weird reason I had to drop down to #25 pilot jets in order to get rid of a low end bog. However this was with 34mm carbs. I believe you will have the 38mm carbs. As for jetting I found the SLP specs were quite rich so it took a little time to dial it in. Make sure your belt deflection and the belt to primary sheave clearance is set to specs.
Seeing as how you have the monoblock engine and 1996 was one of the worst offenders for crank issues you should address the oiling problem of the bearings. Split the case and enlarge and chamfer the oiling holes at the very least. Turn up the oil pump setting while you are at it.

If I'm splitting the case, is there anything else that needs to be done? I'll take a look at pistons and try to find anything obvious that needs done, but are there any other known problems? I have rebuilt two strokes before but I'll be the first to admit at this point I'm more of a parts changer than a motor mechanic. I know just enough to be dangerous.

How large to I go? I'm assuming just a drill bit to enlarge them? And also a drill bit to run the chamfer? I'll post pictures of the tear down and hopefully continue to get good input from all you guys on here. How far should I turn up the oil pump?

sledheader · May 26, 2016

Found this on oiling. Looks like these things are a bomb ready to blow!

1996 XCR-600*
Almost every single ’96 XCR-600 I encountered spit its crank before 1500 miles, often around 900 miles.
There was also a secondary issue with these sleds as well, many suffered piston failures when the casting
around the piston pin area would crack away and allow the pin to work out. On almost every crank job I did I
also replaced the pistons as well and made sure the PTO oiling hole was enlarged to match the center hole.
Once the updated cranks were available through Polaris, I don’t recall having any second time failures when
properly repaired.

sledheader · May 26, 2016

This is where it came from. Looks like very good information to look through if anyone else is interested

http://www.wheatfarm.com/snowmobile/info/polaris-sled-faq.pdf

sledheader · May 26, 2016

Sorry for multiple posts but figured I would keep all information in this thread.

See in bold below. This thing is heck cold starting. I have only cold started it once but the PO also said the same thing. I pulled on it for several minutes. Pull the plugs and they were wet (Brand new plugs). Re installed, pulled a while longer and it started wanting to run. Then held it wide open to get it going finally. After it's been started and shut off, it starts first pull. Is this just common with these?

sledross said:
I owned a 1996 XLT Special, it was a great sled, the problem with the late 95 to 1996 model was the PTO side crank, that being said, if there was a failure to the crank, it would happen within the first 1,000 miles, if no failure occured then the motor seemed to be fine. There is a fix to this, involving drilling of the oiling passage which was too small.

If you are looking for longevity and durability, do not use triple pipes in these engines....mine was a great sled and I sold it with 5,000 miles on the clock and it was still running great. The carbs were a little finicky, but once tuned and cleaned, it started within 5 pulls everytime. A little trick with these as well, is if you are going to stop anywhere for more than 15 minutes, is to shut the fuel line valve off, they like to leak the fuel in the line out into the crankcase, then starting i can be a problem with no primer. Some guys install primers on these sleds.

But it was a good sled for sure, and would be great second sled.

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