Lightest drive systems capable of 200+ HP

SNWMBL · Dec 26, 2013

If you were building a sled from the ground up that was going to make 200-250 HP, which drive system would you use? How light can you get a complete drive system? Is sub 25 lbs for everything reasonable? Is sub 20 lbs possible with lightweight shafts and 7075/Ti. bolts, and a drilled Ti. brake rotor?

I was thinking a Diamond Lite drive with high torque gears, billet cover, lightweight trackshaft & brake rotor, and the caliper from a '12+ M8 if it will fit the Diamond Drive trackshaft (stock M series caliper is heavy). Biggest downside to this is being stuck with a crappy secondary clutch. I had a ZR900 DD in a Rev and liked it aside from the clutch.

What's a complete CMX belt drive weigh with the shafts?

What's an RMI drive weigh? Are these still available?

How about the factory Polaris belt drive? Would the belts live if it was in a stiff tube chassis? Are they failing in the Pro's because of chassis flex?

Or do you forget all the fancy crap and just stick with a bulletproof chain case from an Apex?

Either a gear drive, or belt drive or chaincase with 8" or more C to C would be ideal to run a 3" track and 8-tooth or 9-tooth 3" pitch drivers. 9-tooth would be ideal. I don't want the jackshaft in the tunnel, defeats the whole purpose of having track clearance (IMO).

To sum it up: I built a very light turbo nytro last year, and I'm getting ready to build another from the ground up (mainly just using a Nytro motor, the rest will be fabricated). I want a finished weight under 400 lbs. I have most of the details worked out but I can't for the life of me decide what to do for the drive train. I've been going back and forth for a few months now so I decided to post up.

Wheel House Motorsports · Dec 26, 2013

CMX. i dont remeber the full package weight but its damn light, well layed out and everything you need to get going, and your not stuck with a junk clutch, can be cut for any secondary you want.

Sheetmetalfab · Dec 26, 2013

Supreme tool machine makes a diamond drive looking chaincase.
Saw it in a different tube chassis build.
Oh its slightly cheaper than the cmx

You should try the 5/8 by .035 wall tube i had good luck bending it with a jd squared model 53 bender with their tightest radius die they sell.
2.125 clr i think.

Reeb · Dec 27, 2013

This is what you need. :face-icon-small-ton

Sabaton · Dec 28, 2013

Reeb said:
This is what you need. :face-icon-small-ton

Could you post som more pics of that sled?

Reeb · Dec 28, 2013

I dont wanna step on Calebs thread but here are a few...

SNWMBL · Dec 28, 2013

Step on it all you want, it's all good info.

sportsterdanne · Dec 29, 2013

The downside of the FAST BLADE drive system is that it rotates the track the other way in relation to the secondary clutch.
It works on the BLADE because the Engine is mounted backwards and the clutch rotates the "wrong" way so the track goes the right way.
And change gearing would really be a PITA.
But there is similar drive systems with a short chain instead of gear to gear.

SNWMBL · Dec 29, 2013

Sheetmetalfab said:
Supreme tool machine makes a diamond drive looking chaincase.
Saw it in a different tube chassis build.
Oh its slightly cheaper than the cmx

You should try the 5/8 by .035 wall tube i had good luck bending it with a jd squared model 53 bender with their tightest radius die they sell.
2.125 clr i think.

The STM case is limited to a 14" wide track.

Reeb · Dec 29, 2013

sportsterdanne said:
The downside of the FAST BLADE drive system is that it rotates the track the other way in relation to the secondary clutch.
It works on the BLADE because the Engine is mounted backwards and the clutch rotates the "wrong" way so the track goes the right way.
And change gearing would really be a PITA.
But there is similar drive systems with a short chain instead of gear to gear.

This is a downside...why...
Moving the engine mass further backwards might be seen as a good thing...

sportsterdanne · Dec 29, 2013

Not for the Blade but for SNWMBL:s build since he is using the Nytro engine.

Reeb said:
This is a downside...why...
Moving the engine mass further backwards might be seen as a good thing...

Reeb · Dec 29, 2013

I am still not following....the motor cares not which way you put it.

sportsterdanne · Dec 30, 2013

The Nytro Engine probably would have to be more upright if you turn it around to clear the throttle bodies and charge tube/plenum.

Sheetmetalfab · Dec 30, 2013

Not to mention header routing

Thistledoo · Dec 31, 2013

Apex case is bullet proof, Id run that and lighten it as much as possible. At least when you ride you will never have to worry if its gonna blow up. Easy to find and easy to get parts for.

sportsterdanne · Dec 31, 2013

Im not done with my build yet and i alreay have plans for something new :face-icon-small-blu

I have my Eye on the newer Ski doo drive system with aftermarket belt drive, but i dont know how strong they are. Do they keep up with the Turbo charged 1200 ?

With that drive system you would have the brake in the right Place (drive shaft), pretty light drive shaft and possibilty to Place the secondary clutch like the Ski doo maybe even over the valve cover/Engine to free up leg room. And maybe with some mods to mount Yamaha secondary clutch.

SNWMBL · Dec 31, 2013

Thistledoo said:
Apex case is bullet proof, Id run that and lighten it as much as possible. At least when you ride you will never have to worry if its gonna blow up. Easy to find and easy to get parts for.

The major downside to the Apex drive train is that the center to center on the shafts is only 7". I want to run a 3" track with a minimum of 8-tooth drivers and I don't want the jackshaft in the tunnel and extended chain cases are $$$. I do agree about the durability though, which I why I've had such a hard time pulling the trigger on a Diamond Drive.

Here's what I'm currently tossing around.

Two round aluminum bearing holders from Wahl Brothers for the jackshaft.

A custom steel jack shaft from Wahl Brothers with Yamaha splines on the clutch end to keep the Nytro secondary clutch, and probably Polaris splines on the other end to use a C3 gear. I could set my own shaft centers this way, mostly likely 9" - 9.5" and have all the track clearance I want. The final center to center would be set by C3's sprocket choices and belt lengths. For the drive shaft, a BD Xtreme lightweight Proclimb shaft, the Poclimb brake caliper/bearing holder (lightened up as much as possible), BDX lightweight brake disc, and a C3 lower gear with a lightweight belt tensioner. Aside from the custom jackshaft, everything else would be off the shelf.

I have a few months to figure this out so I'm certainly not set on anything. If I can get the entire drive train (shafts, drivers, gears & chain/belt, bearings, bolts, flangettes) excluding the secondary clutch, under 23 lbs I'll be in good shape. Under 20 lbs and I'd be ecstatic.

Reeb · Jan 3, 2014

Whatever happened to Radical Machines...remember they had a driveline. In fact, so did Timbersled at one point to didn't they?

Chaincase drive system complete with secondary clutch weighs something like 37lbs.

Diamond Drive weighs 32lbs.

Just for reference.

SNWMBL · Jan 4, 2014

The Diamond Drive is actually quite a bit less than that (unless you're including the clutch). These are actual weights.

BDX Diamond Lite drive is 13 lbs 5 oz.
BDX lightweight brake rotor 1 lb. 10 oz.
BDX pads for ceramic rotor 10.5 oz
Complete brake caliper with nuts, bolts, spacer, bearings, but no pads is 4 lbs 9.5 oz.
I don't have a driveshaft, but I'll assume the BDX lightweight track shaft with Avid drivers wouldn't be more than 7 lbs.

So roughly 27 lbs for everything but the clutch. If it's possible to use the Proclimb brake caliper, which is significantly smaller, it should take everything below 26 lbs.

I'm not sure if the RMI drives are still available new, Ron's website has been down for a few years along with his contact info. I've been looking for a used one but they hardly ever pop up for sale.

Reeb · Jan 4, 2014

Those were stock weights with secondary. Weight to be found in a lighter secondary as well.

Lightest drive systems capable of 200+ HP

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