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Any West-siders plan on going to any of these meetings???

diamonddave

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Wokeville, WA.
Yakima, WA Wednesday, August 10,
5:00 p.m. – 7:00 p.m., Yakima Convention Center, 10 North 8th St, Yakima WA 98901-2515

Cle Elum, WA Thursday, August 11
5:00 p.m. -7:00 p.m., Cle Elum Centennial Center, 719 E. 3rd Street, Cle Elum, WA 98922

Seattle, WA Saturday, August 13,
10:00 a.m. – 12:00 p.m., Magnuson Park, Mountaineers Program Center, 7700 Sand Point Way N.E., Seattle, WA 98115


We need to load up and pulverize these meetings with people! Who all plans on going to Seattle? I had planned on going to Cle Elum also but just got notice of a job interview out of town on that day.

C'mon guys....

I guess I should have added that these are the meetings about the proposed additional wilderness area's by the Forest Service.

If you're going to complain about an extra $20 or $30, could you at least show up to a meeting?
 
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blindman

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meetings

Hopefully both, but one for sure.

I know for many that Saturday in Seattle seems hard to give up a summer weekend day for............

But in winter when you can no longer ride these areas on a Saturday seems like an easy commitment to be at the mountaineers at sand point this Saturday from 10 am till noon
 

ruffryder

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I plan on going to the Seattle one on Saturday. Not sure if I will be able to, but that is the plan anyways.

Thanks for the reminder, almost forgot about it. :face-icon-small-sho
 
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blindman

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Thanks for the reminder, almost forgot about i

hope to see everyone there
 
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ruffryder

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I am porting over some information from the other COW thread...

URL="http://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/fsbdev3_053204.pdf"]Wilderness info and statistics..[/URL]

from the pdf,

10% of Washington state is Wilderness.

Preliminary Administrative Wilderness Recommendation Information for Proposed Action

This one is pretty good.. page 8
Backpacking – Colville: Limited opportunities due to layout of Forest and small amount of wilderness. Okanogan-Wenatchee: High use rate on the Wenatchee, primarily in wilderness, which is accessible and can accommodate future use.
SnowmobilingUse expected to increase by 350 percent by 2050. Some PWAs have popular marked routes and play areas. For all three forests, all but two miles of groomed trail are outside PWAs. Climate change will alter winter use. High use on the Wenatchee and Colville, where projected increase could have impacts. A relative low use activity on Okanogan.
Backcountry SkiingA low use for all three Forests. Many of the popular or important areas are in PWA’s. Groomed Nordic trails are mostly outside PWAs and many are associated with ski areas.
Hunting – National trend is for major decrease, but will remain a local significant use. Some PWAs have low OHV use related to hunting season. Colville and Wenatchee have relative high use and Okanogan low use. Wilderness and PWAs provides wildlife habitat.
Wow, so what is the FS planning on doing to accommodate all of us?
 
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ruffryder

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I guess I am going to need to make up some hours of work today..

Some interesting reads..

Trends in recreation, word doc

The major trend information from page 1, paragraph 2
The national population is growing; the amount of people recreating in the outdoors is increasing with the growing population; the diversity of ethnic groups is growing and more women are participating in outdoor recreation; the average age of people recreating is getting older; although the most popular recreation activities have held steady (camping and hiking), and are still the most popular activities, there are new ones that are growing significantly in demand. Because of our fast-paced society and career minded parents with children, people use the National Forests for shorter durations—they want more weekend experiences rather than multi-week ventures.
The part in bold is of importance and shows reasoning to limit the creation of new wilderness locations, as use of the forests has shifted away from being able to use these areas.

Page 2, paragraph
Trail use on all thre5e Forests has remained stable. However, the type of use on trails is changing; and with changing uses (increase in Mt. bikes and motorized equipment), there have been challenges in offering opportunities for the newer uses in combination with the traditional uses (hikers and horse-riders). There are fewer over-night hiking trips and more day-hike trips and this includes wilderness hikes as well. Winter trails have become more important, and there are grooming agreements associated with many of them.
again, less need on wilderness and more need on access

page 2, last paragraph
Demand for designated OHV routes is increasing. According to the Washington State Department of Licensing, in the counties where the National Forests reside (Chelan, Douglas, Kittitas, Yakima, Okanogan, Ferry, Pend Oreille, Stevens), OHV registration have gone up an average of 26% in Colville NF counties, 31% in Okanogan County, and 19% in Wenatchee NF Counties just in the past two years (these figures do not include motorcycles). Snowmobile registration in those same counties went up 14% in Colville NF Counties, they went down 3% in Okanogan County, and down 13% in Wenatchee NF Counties. There are other counties that influence these Forests as well (Spokane, Pierce, and King) which all have increased OHV registration, but gone down in snowmobile registration from 2002 to 2004. (Washington State Department of Licensing Vehicle Fee Distribution Report, www.dol.wa.gov/
This shows the importance of OHV areas and also shows how important registration numbers can be. Not just funds, but as a mechanism for quantifying users..

page 3, paragraph 2
Although Backpacking, Hiking, and Walking are still the most popular forms of travel on trails, Mt.Biking, and OHV riding are increasing in popularity and demand.
do mountain bikers and OHV's need more wilderness?

page 5, paragraph 2
However, there appears to be a growing demand for OHV routes that is predicted to continue to increase, and supply may not be meeting demand in some of the areas of the Forests. The OHV use seems to cross all income levels and age levels as well, and all surveys are fairly consistent with this prediction of increase.
Looks like OHV use seems to be the largest growing sector. Need for more wilderness??

page 5, paragraph 3
Budget has been declining for the past decade, and is predicted to decline further or stabilize at the level it is at now. Fostering mutually beneficial volunteer agreements will continue to be important to continue trail and trailhead maintenance and improvements, on trails that are important to some user groups, but may be falling out of the maintenance schedule.
does anyone have any data comparing the volunteer hours of different user groups? I have done some volunteering in the past, and I would be curious to see how much is done between the different user groups.

page 5, second to last paragraph
Driving for pleasure has a high participation rate across all age classes, income levels, and ethnic groups. Studies show it is on the increase. Trend data shows that viewing and photographing scenery has the highest percentage of participation than any other outdoor activity nation-wide, followed by visiting nature centers as second, and driving for pleasure as third. (Hall, 2005)

page 8, first paragraph
Since people are taking shorter trips into the wilderness, the campsites within the interior of the wildernesses are shrinking, but the campsites that are easier to get to with larger group sizes are remaining the same size as they have been for many years. There are some identified areas within some of the wildernesses that are at capacity. Although some campsites are larger due to traditional use patterns, the Wilderness Areas in general are on an upward trend in revegetation and naturalization.
seems to me, from a recreational point of view, there is no reason to expand the wilderness.
 

ruffryder

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Some summaries of the information I have found so far.

Wintertime use, snowmobiling is a major activity on the forests
Backcountry ski travel is low for all forests
Snowmobile use expected to increase 350% by 2050
Majority of wilderness trips are day hikes, reduction in extended stay / trips to the interior of wilderness areas
Large increases in ORV use for all forests, continued growth strong
Large increases in MT. Bike users in the forests

It looks like adding wilderness is not to benefit anyone at all. Most people don't use it, can't use it.
 

Tampico

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We had good attendance at the Yakima meeting last night. 15 Yakima Ski-Benders, plus at least 8 additional snowmobilers not affiliated with our club. Also a lot of quaders and jeepers. I would estimate 80-100 people, and 80%+ were motorized forest users. The meeting was well run and fairly non-confrontational.

Apparently the Wenatchee meeting only had about 15 people?

As a group, we need to get our comments in!

I am sure the WWA and WMC will get troves of mass run signatures in; we need to produce the comments to ensure that our public forests stay open to all.

Good luck in Cle Elum tonight!

Tampico
 

ruffryder

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We had good attendance at the Yakima meeting last night. 15 Yakima Ski-Benders, plus at least 8 additional snowmobilers not affiliated with our club. Also a lot of quaders and jeepers. I would estimate 80-100 people, and 80%+ were motorized forest users. The meeting was well run and fairly non-confrontational.
Nice!! That is really good to hear!!
 
P

paulharris

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I guess I am going to need to make up some hours of work today..

Some interesting reads..

Trends in recreation, word doc

The major trend information from page 1, paragraph 2

The part in bold is of importance and shows reasoning to limit the creation of new wilderness locations, as use of the forests has shifted away from being able to use these areas.

Page 2, paragraph

again, less need on wilderness and more need on access

page 2, last paragraph
This shows the importance of OHV areas and also shows how important registration numbers can be. Not just funds, but as a mechanism for quantifying users..

page 3, paragraph 2
do mountain bikers and OHV's need more wilderness?

page 5, paragraph 2
Looks like OHV use seems to be the largest growing sector. Need for more wilderness??

page 5, paragraph 3
does anyone have any data comparing the volunteer hours of different user groups? I have done some volunteering in the past, and I would be curious to see how much is done between the different user groups.

page 5, second to last paragraph


page 8, first paragraph
seems to me, from a recreational point of view, there is no reason to expand the wilderness.

great points ruffryder, i hope you have put this info in a letter to the FS
 
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newtrout

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The Cle Elum meeting was dominated by anti-Wilderness folks. There were 100-150 people there.

It was mostly an open house and presentation. They only had 20 minutes of Q&A, which probably could have gone for 2 hours.
 

ruffryder

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any of those that went to the Cle Elum meeting have some good talking points in addition to those in this thread?
 
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