the north idaho caribou battle is back

TIM · Dec 6, 2011

http://www.regulations.gov/#!documentDetail;D=FWS-R1-ES-2011-0096-0001

Actions that would increase recreation in mountain caribou
recovery areas. Such activities could include, but are not limited to,
recreational developments that facilitate winter access into mountain
caribou habitat units, or management activities that increase
recreational activities within mountain caribou habitat throughout the
year, such as snowmobiling, OHV use, and backcountry skiing. These
activities have the potential to displace caribou from suitable habitat
or increase their susceptibility to predation. Displacement of caribou
may result in additional energy expenditure by caribou when they vacate
an area to avoid disturbance, and an effective loss of habitat
availability temporarily and potentially in the long-term, where
caribou abandon areas affected by chronic disturbance.

its back

Older & Wiser · Dec 7, 2011

They just keep wanting more and more. It is never enough area for the three caribou that visited the area five years ago.

summit1k · Dec 12, 2011

I have never been here so I don't know exactly what it is like. I don't know about you guys but everywhere I go there are no wildlife like thay anyways. They all go down to the lower elevations for the winter. I might see an elk or deer early in the season. They are not dumb enough to stay around in over 5 ft of snow. I know caribou are made for the snow but in the mountains it is always really soft and I have a hard time believing there would be very many caribou there. It sounds like another rediculous excuse to close more area. I'm still waiting for the new study about having better economies around wildernes area to get used.

The Fourth Wolf · Dec 13, 2011

We ride in caribou country all the time. They shy away from machines but don't panic. They tend to stay where the snow is windblown--either thin or hard. So if these mountains tend to hold deep powder then caribou are not likely to use them in winter.

My suggestion to the North ID gang is to demand the USFS present some peer reviewed research that shows that caribou do, in fact, overwinter in the mountains in question. My guess, is they migrate north into Canada for the winter and use ID as summer range. But that's a guess.

If these caribou actually do overwinter in your riding mountains then you've got an uphill battle (no pun)

sledheadjake · Dec 14, 2011

They have proved time and time again that the cariboo are not coming down to the states from canada for years.Their habitat was destroyed years ago from the sundance fires,but these retards keep trying to replant these animals back in this habitat.Waht tends to happen is they either die or they end up heading back up to canada.It is redicilous I have been riding this area for the last 10 plus years and have never seen a cariboo.These damn enviromantal groups already got a huge area of land thta we used to be able to ride closed down a few years ago, but it is never enough.:face-icon-small-fro

TIM · Dec 14, 2011

I have been in this battle for many years. The unfortunate truth is that there is a very small amount of caribou that do use the area in the winter. For whatever reason the caribou like the 4500-5000 foot range in the selkirks. there are not many in there, but the fish and game biologist, does have proof that they are there.

The main cause for death with the caribou has been cougars and loss of habitat. the sundance and trapper fires did take there range away. And yes logging has taken some old growth forest from them. but the cougar and the changing landscape have been the biggest obstacles for the caribou.

But the greenies don't want to save the caribou, they want to stop winter recreation in the selkiks. IF the greenies wanted to help the caribou, they would be on a predator control mission. But, when that is brought up to them, they will not support killing of another animal, to protect the caribou.

I am going to have to dig out all my old notes from all the meetings a couple of years ago.

tim

TIM · Dec 14, 2011

i wonder if saws still looks at these pages and if they will send out an alert.

The Fourth Wolf · Dec 14, 2011

TIM said:
I have been in this battle for many years.....

But the greenies don't want to save the caribou, they want to stop winter recreation in the selkirks. IF the greenies wanted to help the caribou, they would be on a predator control mission. But, when that is brought up to them, they will not support killing of another animal, to protect the caribou.

tim

And there you have it. In a nutshell.

Older & Wiser · Dec 14, 2011

I sent my response in.

We need all comments we can get for our side but please encourage people in the Bonners Ferry & Sandpoint areas to reply within the response time. We need as many people as possible (especially locals) to give their input on why this is a bad idea. The more comments the better.

The greenies think they can wear us down on this issue or slide it by without a fight. Lets prove them wrong.

I wish our side had the funds to sue the feds like the greenies do.

I sure miss Smith Creek. We should sue and try and get it all back.

TIM · Dec 14, 2011

older

I am with you on the smith creek closure. the cow, grass, trapper creek loop was a great ride.

WE do have a really good ally in John Finney. He is a lawyer out of sandpoint that has put a lot of time and effort into keeping the riding areas open.

Thank you John.

tim

motojunkie101 · Dec 15, 2011

Sent in my comments...damn greenies!

MT rydn · Jan 6, 2012

Tester/Baucus = No more recreation.

TIM said:
http://www.regulations.gov/#!documentDetail;D=FWS-R1-ES-2011-0096-0001

Actions that would increase recreation in mountain caribou
recovery areas. Such activities could include, but are not limited to,
recreational developments that facilitate winter access into mountain
caribou habitat units, or management activities that increase
recreational activities within mountain caribou habitat throughout the
year, such as snowmobiling, OHV use, and backcountry skiing. These
activities have the potential to displace caribou from suitable habitat
or increase their susceptibility to predation. Displacement of caribou
may result in additional energy expenditure by caribou when they vacate
an area to avoid disturbance, and an effective loss of habitat
availability temporarily and potentially in the long-term, where
caribou abandon areas affected by chronic disturbance.

its back

Those poor elk/caribou/bison are soooo nervous around OHV/humans. Man have you not seen how they just run like crazy (not) from cars and tourists in Yellowstone and how they just flee (never) from snow covered roads in Yellowstone when snowmobiles come along. I mean OHV and humans are sooo much worse (ridiculous) and unnatural compared say to a pack of wolves destroying a herd of elk/caribou/bison calves (reality).

DOO DAWG · Jan 8, 2012

http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/showthread.php?t=148690&highlight=affects+on+wildlife

AND wolf hunters can use snowmobiles to get at the damn wolves!

TIM · Jan 26, 2012

pretty good read on the caribou

http://www.cdapress.com/news/outdoors/article_0135f264-8dd4-57e6-97e0-917d2f9cac58.html

Sledsniper · Jan 26, 2012

Ware do they come up with this CRAP?

509snowman · Jan 27, 2012

The last couple of years they have allowed logging in the same area that is closed for Caribou in Washington. I don't think these people know anything about caribou.

Lets cut down the trees that have the lichen that they eat.
Lets save the wolves that can eat caribou
Lets shut down the tops of mountains and ridges because that is where animals hang out during the winter.
Lets close everything to snowmobiles because they are chasing animals to death and digging 10 feet through the snow and destroying vegitation.

I have hunted and snowmobiled that area for the last 15 years and have never seen or heard of anyone seeing a caribou or a caribou track.

If you look at the endangered species act, it states that if the animal is not in that particular area, then it is not technically endangered because it does not exist in that area and it can not be shut down. So, in theory if we could prove they aren't even in the area, then we should be able to keep it open.

Oregongirl · Jan 27, 2012

I did a quick review of these documents last night....primarily searching for Recommended Wilderness Area proposed designations.

There is a lot of acreage being proposed for RWA.

For Kootenai it's 112,800 acres. See page 48. It clearly states that motorized vehicles will be prohibited in these areas. http://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprdb5345788.pdf

For Idaho Panhandle it's 139,300 acres. See page 45-46. http://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprdb5345952.pdf

There is 252,100 acres in jeopardy without getting into the Caribou stuff.

Urgh! :face-icon-small-fro:face-icon-small-fro:face-icon-small-fro

TIM · Jan 27, 2012

IPNF

oregon girl

Alternative b which the forest service is wanting to go with is very livable for us people who live here. Please don't send out an alert suggesting to go with altenative a or no action. the forest service will not go with that alternative.
The forest service wouldn't go thru this procedure to do nothing.

Alternative c is extemely scary.

tim

whittaker727 · Jan 29, 2012

All comments have to be in by the 31st, so please write in a response if you have not already done so.

EricW · Jan 29, 2012

whittaker727 said:
All comments have to be in by the 31st, so please write in a response if you have not already done so.

Might double check that Whit, I heard in a meeting over the weekend that there was an extension granted. EW

the north idaho caribou battle is back

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