KTM 500 vs 300 dilemna

heliwrench · Apr 2, 2018

I'm currently on a 14 500 EXC with a 16 TS LT. I have been thinking about going to a 300 XCW for less weigh, less maintenance, and more affordable rebuilds. I think it would also be a more suitable summer bike for the riding I do.

I am super happy with the 500 performance wise, and am worried that the 300 will be a little lacking. Maybe properly set up with a rk-tek head and sx ignition it will be pretty comparable? I'm not too concerned about the gearing differences between the xc and xcw. If its really that bad I don't see why you couldn't throw 1st and 2nd from the xc into the xcw. I prefer all the other features of the XCW over the XC.

I currently have my chaincase geared up to extend 2nd gear a bit, since 3rd is too much to pull on my 500 unless the conditions are just right. I imagine the same would work decent on the 300 with the gap between 2nd and 3rd.

Anybody have experience riding both bikes that can comment?

M5- · Apr 2, 2018

How much do you weigh with gear.

M5

powdermuncher · Apr 2, 2018

Some guys love the 300 two smokers and some hate them on the snow. Much more shifting and clutching. No lazy riding like a 450 or the 500 ( just not enough bottom end torque) But they are light and fun -- less maintenance is not the 2 stroke thing -- you will spend way more time tuning and making sure everything works perfect on the 2 smoker.

heliwrench · Apr 2, 2018

M5- said:
How much do you weigh with gear.

M5

Somewhere around 220-225.

Misha Subo · Apr 2, 2018

The power on the 300 XCW is fine and it feels way more nimble in corners than the only other snowbike I've tried which is a 450FX.

Although, I weigh only 150 lbs with gear, that's 75 lbs on you.

eric82930 · Apr 2, 2018

The 300xcw is kind of tame stock but can be turned up. I would far prefer the w in the summer for the PDS. The new xplor pds is amazing and no crappy linkage. regardless of mods, I would probably pick the 300 anyday over the 500. Make sure you do something to keep it from freezing up. You don't need a lectron or avid. I just run a electric slug heater and a really good wrap.

heliwrench · Apr 2, 2018

Misha Subo said:
Although, I weigh only 150 lbs with gear, that's 75 lbs on you.

My friend that rides a 300 is similar weight to you, and he can go anywhere I can, but I'm not sure how it would like a heavier rider. If its putting out the power it shouldn't really matter.

Also his bike is crazy slow on the trail in. I know thats not really the intent of these bikes, but reality is that there is 25km of trail to get to most of the riding areas where I go, and its nice to not be at the back of the pack all the time. My 500 will do 60mph if its totally tapped out, and cruises pretty easily at 50mph.

powdermuncher · Apr 2, 2018

Unless you get a XC-W it will not cruise fast enough for my liking. Just as posted before very slow on top end . I like to rip the trails to get it over with.

barefooter · Apr 3, 2018

Check out BRC Racing. 500 jugs for the KTM 300. Best of both worlds. Once he has EFI dialed it will be my dedicated snowbike.

GlennRMK · Apr 4, 2018

Heres my 2 cents

I had an 09 CRF450R and then switched to an 11 300 XC. I ran 16 TS LT on both.

I got rid of the honda because it wouldn't start or was a PIA when it was below 20 degrees (pretty much every day in Montana).

The KTM would easily start at -20 but I could never get it to run consistently crisp and clean. Which was frustrating because it runs flawlessly in the summer.

As a snow bike it worked fine but you have to ride it like you mean it. Keep clutching, shifting and keep it singing and it works great. As mentioned, you cant be lazy like on the 500.

I think you will be dissapointed with the 300. But if you wanna try it, get the XC. I would never run the W. I found the XC trannny gappy, the W would be horrible. I would prefer the SX but no 6th gear would be like 30 MPH top speed.

I ran 12 tooth CS sprocket and geared the TS up one tooth. My 300 had similar top speed to my 450 but the 500 is way faster.

Also, I put the SX CDI box on and Pro Circuit pipe. Also, had Slavens shave the head. Made a huge difference. My 300 made 2 hp more than my 450 on the dyno and more power than a stock 500

jmedgar · Apr 4, 2018

I had never ridden a snowbike before this season so I set up my 14 300 XC-W with a 120 Aro to try it out. Did a Lectron 38mm HV with the snowbike rod, PST Carb Heater, RK-Tech Head (best investment), thermobob and everything else needed. Bike ran flawlessly in all conditions and was really fun. Lots of shifting and almost always full throttle but felt great. I did feel like I was totally wringing its neck the entire day, and getting from second to 3rd gear when climbing took full revs and a really fast shift and even then sometimes it would fall on its face. I am 200 with gear and ride primarily 7-9k feet. Since I like the bike for dirt so much I decided to get a dedicated snowbike and leave the 300 for dirt.

I bought a 18 450 SX-F and all I can say is I had no idea what I was missing riding the 300. It feels like a new sport almost. The 450 has a TON more usable power, feels just as light and nimble, and is overall way more fun. It is nice not being totally pinned all day and having the power to do a quick climb out of a creek bottom, or a quick loft of the ski makes the whole experience way more fun.

In my opinion if you have a 300 yes it works well and is way more fun than not going snowbiking, but if you have the option for a bike with more power do that hands down. Just my opinion of course and I think all that really matters is you get out in the mountains and have fun!

powdermuncher · Apr 4, 2018

One of my riding buddy went from a YZ450 to a 300 and is totally bummed with the lack of torque. Same as mentioned above. And for anyone riding single track if you mod the bike to be a good Snowbike you make it into a bad single track bike. So that completely misses the point for a all season Bike.

Sheetmetalfab · Apr 4, 2018

jmedgar said:
I had never ridden a snowbike before this season so I set up my 14 300 XC-W with a 120 Aro to try it out. Did a Lectron 38mm HV with the snowbike rod, PST Carb Heater, RK-Tech Head (best investment), thermobob and everything else needed. Bike ran flawlessly in all conditions and was really fun. Lots of shifting and almost always full throttle but felt great. I did feel like I was totally wringing its neck the entire day, and getting from second to 3rd gear when climbing took full revs and a really fast shift and even then sometimes it would fall on its face. I am 200 with gear and ride primarily 7-9k feet. Since I like the bike for dirt so much I decided to get a dedicated snowbike and leave the 300 for dirt.

I bought a 18 450 SX-F and all I can say is I had no idea what I was missing riding the 300. It feels like a new sport almost. The 450 has a TON more usable power, feels just as light and nimble, and is overall way more fun. It is nice not being totally pinned all day and having the power to do a quick climb out of a creek bottom, or a quick loft of the ski makes the whole experience way more fun.

In my opinion if you have a 300 yes it works well and is way more fun than not going snowbiking, but if you have the option for a bike with more power do that hands down. Just my opinion of course and I think all that really matters is you get out in the mountains and have fun!

Same experience.

300 was better than nothing, (probably prefer riding a sled)
Don’t let the guys who spent way too much trying to make the 300 work convince you it’s even close. (Much less better)

It’s all purchase justification.

The sxf450 will dominate the 300 on any hill.
It just flat out makes trackspeed. (Rather than running out of rev’s super fast with very little trackspeed)

heliwrench · Apr 4, 2018

Thanks for the replies. Looks like I'll be sticking with my 500 for now, and maybe getting a newer 450 sx or xc for something different in the future.

coryf89 · Apr 4, 2018

Ok here we go, this is probably gonna hurt some feelings...

Two stroke snowbikes are laughable I don’t care what anyone says. Especially an off road/enduro bike... come onnn. They hardly cut it in the summer unless you ride ridiculous tight and rocky single track/hard enduro which is really what they’re made for. There’s a reason NO ONE races 2 strokes in supercross. There’s a reason the big dune guys aren’t on 2 strokes. There’s a reason drag racers aren’t on 2 strokes. There’s a reason Graham Jarvis and other top enduro riders ride 2 strokes. That’s what they’re for. That’s what the low speed, wide ratioed, Non linkage suspension 300s are for. Not snowbikes lol. They are low speed, low rpm, enduro machines. I’ve seen the panthera cr500 snowbike too. Didn’t impress me one bit. This isn’t a 2 stroke game. Yes they will work. Yes you can get out. Yes they will work in the snow. Yes you will have fun. BUT you’d have a lot more fun and less risk on the proper bike. Try riding a big bore mx 4 stroke snowbike then going back to a xcw 2 stroker and you’ll instantly regret your 2 stroke purchase. Do it right the first time... cheap ppays twice!

And on top of all that. Throwing an xcw transmission’d bike in the mix has got to be one of THE worst things you can do on a snowbike. Talk about moving backwards.

eric82930 · Apr 4, 2018

Cory.. Ouch
There is a guy a few posted his 300 dynoed 2 more hp than the 450 and 500. The power is there if you can't find it that's a rider problem. It does take more skill to keep on the power but is also more fun when you do. USE THE CLUTCH. Don't know what else to say.

But yes pro Supercross would truly suck on a 2 stroke.

rhino89523 · Apr 4, 2018

I like my 2 strokes, I wouldn't trade it for any 450 fart can bike if I had to keep it. I'd make the trade to sell it and buy 2 more blown up 450's and 2 more 500 motors:face-icon-small-hap

That said I don't think at your size I'd be happy with a 300. I weigh more than you do, my snowbike is also a CR500 and I'd take double the HP if they made it.

Jaynelson · Apr 4, 2018

heliwrench said:
I am super happy with the 500 performance wise, and am worried that the 300 will be a little lacking. Maybe properly set up with a rk-tek head and sx ignition it will be pretty comparable?

The short answer is no. The 300 is an amazing bike in the summer, but the power just doesn't translate well to hanging with the 4-strokes in the snow. If you have one anyways....great. If you are going to buy one to snowbike....nah.

At that point, you might be better to buy an older, cheaper 450 MX to leave as a snowbike, and then buy a 300 for trails in the summer. For a do-it-all bike...gonna be tough to beat that 500exc

GlennRMK · Apr 4, 2018

Jaynelson said:
The short answer is no. The 300 is an amazing bike in the summer, but the power just doesn't translate well to hanging with the 4-strokes in the snow. If you have one anyways....great. If you are going to buy one to snowbike....nah.

At that point, you might be better to buy an older, cheaper 450 MX to leave as a snowbike, and then buy a 300 for trails in the summer. For a do-it-all bike...gonna be tough to beat that 500exc

I agree. The 500 works pretty well on trails. 450 MX bikes = worst trail bikes ever

chumbilly1 · Apr 4, 2018

300 is an awesome snowbike. Takes a tuner to set it up properly. Will it point and shoot with the BB 450 sxf , NO. In the trees, and nasty $hit I ride snowbikes in, its great. As Ive posted before, I will have a really nice 450sxf with Raze ninja kit for sale in the fall with a yeti 137, CMX track, all the bells and whistles. Will be keeping my little 300sx or making it into a BRC 500sx. For me, with an extensive backround of mtn sledding, I dont think any bike is enough in the open stuff. YAWN. They are for a different purpose and 300 fits the bill for me there!

KTM 500 vs 300 dilemna

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