SAFETY CONCERN: 2013 Pro A-Arm Failure

sno_mo_racer · Feb 8, 2013

To the OP, as others said above take to another dealer and have them straighten it out. As one poster said he drove a couple hours to deal with a better dealer then yours so there should be a red flag. Also you bought 3 new sleds from him this year alone so he should have just ate it out of his pocket for the sake of keeping a great customer that you are.

mountainhorse said:
I sincerely believe in what Scott Ostroski is saying in this vid... The production and QC are off on this sled and need to get "dialed in" better.

I've gotten to know some of the engineers of this sled and have a lot of respect for them...A very skilled team of engineers that have pulled off an amazing sled.

All this sled needs is more consistency in production and it will be hard to beat.

There are just too many people that are having ZERO problems with their 2013 PRO's . Production QC...IMO that is the difference between the "problem children" and the "star players" in the class of 2013.

.

MH, I am sure poo has to take some blame also. If they were not built in house then they must have gave the builder of a-arms a too tight time frame and budget to do everything right. Either that or they builders just took some minimum wage off the street to glue these together.

crf118r · Feb 8, 2013

BTW, I'm having ZERO problems with mine as of now. I hope the trend continues...

winter brew · Feb 8, 2013

mountainhorse said:
Yo... Paul... your eyes are worse than mine!! HA!

Bare steel tube inside the socket... painted outside.

Bare metal... but looks pretty smooth to me.

Good design... bad QC on this particular part... I don't see it as being a design problem... the engineers are smart cookies... mfg of the arms is the question.... first year adhesive use on tubular/press-fit assemblies in the PRO have some hiccups apparently.

.

lol...I was looking at it on a phone. What is the black toward the end of the tube? Looks like paint. So I'm guesing they paint the entire tube, then remove the paint in this area with some sort of abrasive tool?? I see what appears to be more corrosion than adhesive, and no evidence of squeeze out. Visible squeeze out is (usually) fairly standard practice to ensure a joint was actually glued.
Another thought....this is just like the driveshaft....aluminum and steel. ANY movement and the aluminum will "give", and lose any interference fit there once was, as well as allow the adhesive to fail. But hey, it's light :face-icon-small-hap
I think the design will work fine if they can get a tighter fit and adequate glue with proper surface prep.....sort of stating the obvious, but it needs to be obvious to every single person that puts these together :face-icon-small-win

snowmobiler · Feb 8, 2013

A-arm collar clamps?

Snodawg · Feb 8, 2013

My bet is that Polaris never even saw this claim. The dealer never sent it in to them, they just told the customer that Polaris wouldn't fix it. Seriously, it's time to find a different dealer, because any jackwagon can see that this would be a warrantable situation.

mountainhorse · Feb 8, 2013

Squeeze-out

winter brew said:
I see what appears to be more corrosion than adhesive, and no evidence of squeeze out. Visible squeeze out is (usually) fairly standard practice to ensure a joint was actually glued.

I think the design will work fine if they can get a tighter fit and adequate glue with proper surface prep.....sort of stating the obvious, but it needs to be obvious to every single person that puts these together :face-icon-small-win

The engineers/Techs at Polaris probably hate reading this kind of stuff and equate it to people just complaining about not getting warranty on something that was damaged... not the case here though. Often some of the theories on components are deemed "keyboard engineers rambling"... again not the case here.

Paul, your point of no squeeze-out is a good one IMO.

If you look at both pics you will not see any squeeze-out (other than the dimples at the injection point) on the front tube nor the rear tube and the one that separated does not have any squeeze-out inside nor outside of the socket.

geo · Feb 8, 2013

In a perfect world there should be 16 thou clearance between the parts so the 8 thou glass beads can provide clearance all the way around the tube for glue. It should also be glued with the tubes in a vertical position so gravity helps distribute the glue evenly and gives it a chance to get all around.

The last part is not done at the factory (and should be changed before the '14 run IMO, lol keyboard engineer) because all the ones I've seen are drooling glue out the bottom.
What about the top half of the tube?

mountainhorse · Feb 8, 2013

Geo... you would be assuming that they are using the "GB" forumulation or even a certain kind of adhesive... Might not be the case. There are many different formulations of methacrylate adhesives...

For injection assemblies... most of them set up almost immediately.

FatDogX · Feb 8, 2013

Just a thought, but what about having a tapered or swedged shaft and the receiving end having the same inner taper?

Or better yet, maybe they should just get their A arms from Z Bros and be done.

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2

INDEEP · Feb 8, 2013

Is the Polaris A arm section going next to the Drive Train section?:face-icon-small-win

winter brew · Feb 8, 2013

Eric, i just had a chance to read the posts.....just skimmed over them yesterday. Are they really trying to inject adhesive after its assembled? No wonder its failing. I have been around a lot of different assembly techniques and the testing of them. If they want to ensure the entire surface is seeing adhesive they have to do it before its assembled. The lack of squeeze out shows that the glue either cannot flow through the clearance provided or not enough is being injected, or both.
Or, are they relying on a small "spot" of adhesive near an injection point?
Do some arms have squeeze out around the full circumference?
Maybe I am expecting too high of a standard from a sled co?
In the industry Im in I have never heard or seen something where adhesive is stuffed into something after its assembled, not in something that is structural anyways....Im sure it is standard in some applications but the results are obvious. They might consider verifying full coverage before assembly, that is the only way to KNOW there are no voids....voids where water enters, corrosion occurs, electrolysis? What will it look like in 10 years if its corroded and coming apart in 2 months? Rant over...lol....little things like this just drive me nuts, they are so easy to avoid and the consequences so high.

827revdog · Feb 8, 2013

Is there any aftermarket alternatives for the 13 that lets you run stock length shocks? Tired of fear to have polaris glued parts fail. Id rather spend the dough on after market as not to ruin a short riding season.

wjl · Feb 8, 2013

A list of aftermarket A-Arms
Z-Bros - http://www.zbrozracing.com/ chrome moly
Damond S - http://www.diamond-smfg.com/ Work of art ti and $$ but nice
Skin-z - http://skinzprotectivegear.com/snowmobileproductah/aarms.html ??? when they will be available
http://alternativeimpact.com/polaris cro-moly a-arms.htm
these are 3 off the top of my head there are more, may have to call on what shocks work.

LoudHandle · Feb 8, 2013

827revdog said:
Is there any aftermarket alternatives for the 13 that lets you run stock length shocks? Tired of fear to have polaris glued parts fail. Id rather spend the dough on after market as not to ruin a short riding season.

To my knowledge the only A-arms that are close to fitting with the stock '13 shock length are the 36" Wide Z-Broz. These were actually designed around a 16.5" shock length where as the stock '13 is 16.6" from memory. They are supposedly close enough to work from what I've read.

ak · Feb 8, 2013

LoudHandle said:
To my knowledge the only A-arms that are close to fitting with the stock '13 shock length are the 36" Wide Z-Broz. These were actually designed around a 16.5" shock length where as the stock '13 is 16.6" from memory. They are supposedly close enough to work from what I've read.

Alternative impact and diamond s make a arms to fit the stock 16.6 shock length of the 2013.

http://www.diamond-smfg.com/

If your on a budget get the chromoly alternative impact arms.

http://www.alternativeimpact.com/polaris cro-moly a-arms.htm

paulharris · Feb 8, 2013

Facebook.....start posting about these failures on Polaris' Facebook page. They Can't hide behind that, everyone can see it. And other people that are thinking about buying a polaris can see it. It works, do it. Companies like this do not want negative comments on their page and it will help to force them into doing something about it.

I put several comments up on Polaris' FB page before the driveshaft recall, telling it like it is, and they did NOT delete them.

Wally · Feb 9, 2013

Mexico

Do you think being made in Mexico had anything to do with this?:face-icon-small-dis

ak · Feb 9, 2013

Powderforlife907 · Feb 10, 2013

Wally said:
Do you think being made in Mexico had anything to do with this?:face-icon-small-dis

I think even Mexico QC would be better then that..... It would atleast have some extra tape holding it together..

ravenlunatic · Feb 11, 2013

A-arm failure

I had a similar incident at Boulder on Friday. I skimmed across a rock in a one of the meadows north of the Bull Pen at not a very high rate of speed and it felt like my carbide dug in to the granite and split the aluminum pocket.
The bottom front tube pulled out and the bottom rear tube bent.
This was not a high impact collision. I would compare it to loading my sled into my trailer and one ski grabbing the bottom of the door.
My dealer isn't open until tomorrow, so I guess I'll find out then what they have to say!

SAFETY CONCERN: 2013 Pro A-Arm Failure

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