Cat to begin manufacturing snowmobile engines

diggerdown · Jun 11, 2010

I agree that the Japanese have turned into a very good producer of engines and a number of other things. However, they have also turned into some of the highest priced items, their labor cost and shipping of items is higher than ours. I imagain that suzuki will still have a bit of input on the new engines and as long as the cat engineers don't have the same attitude as the Polaris engineers, all should be well in the world of cat. Polaris should have cleaned house a few years back and got some people that live in the real world to lead their team. I guess it goes back to the fact that you can always tell an engineer, but you can't tell him much!

bowerman61028 · Jun 11, 2010

smoothdawg said:
I am worried about reliability issues with a new engine manufacturer. I hope I am wrong as I have been a long time AC fan. Time will tell. I sure won't be buying the first year engine!

I read an article a few years ago from cat talking about the new 800cc and1000cc engine when they came out. Cat's engineers said:
"A minimum of 3 years of development and testing
50,000+ miles of on-snow testing at all altitudes
Water tank testing
Summer extreme heat asphalt testing
Over 3,000 documented dyno runs at Arctic Cat alone. (Not counting the test runs at Suzuki)"
(American Snowmobiler Jan 2007)

I assume they will be following this same protocol with the new engines and probably be putting them through even more vigorous testing because they won't have the backing of Suzuki's testers. This would mean that their new engine is already in testing and production. Let’s all keep an eye out for it and I'm sure cat will be releasing samples of information to stimulate the "buzz" of their new hot engine.

I'll be putting my faith in Cat to keep their place at the front of the pack. I think the big question should also be; will they be placing this completely new power plant in a 10 year old chassis, or will we see a new chassis design coming out in the next year or two so they have some proven reliability on that before it meets its new power plant?

Qreiff · Jun 11, 2010

I too look forward to what Cat is going to offer. I believe they will come out with a great product. Hell, even Suzuki wasn't great all the time........did you all forget the 700 twin?!?!! Braaaaaap, braaaaaaap, BOOM!!

Speculation is just that...proof is in the puddin' as they say.

:usa2:

JoeySlushr · Jun 11, 2010

AaronBND said:
Don't get me wrong, I'm about as patriotic as a person can be to America, but show me one American engine manufacturer that can build an engine to run around a race track all day long for days at 10-12,000 rpm's like all the superbikes do. Let's face it, it is what it is. And if there was one, the engine alone would cost $15,000 by itself because the union would be paying the guy $40/hr to build it, which in the end result we pay for. Let's not turn this into a "political patriotism" thread. It's reality!

Aaron

how many jap motors r running around a 2.5 mile track moving a few thousand pound car at 9000 rpm all day long?? how many jap motors r puching trophy trucks around? how about 8000 horse dragsters? 3000 horse pullin tractors? 1000 horse street driven pickups? just sayin...

backcountryislife · Jun 11, 2010

JoeySlushr said:
how many jap motors r running around a 2.5 mile track moving a few thousand pound car at 9000 rpm all day long?? how many jap motors r puching trophy trucks around? how about 8000 horse dragsters? 3000 horse pullin tractors? 1000 horse street driven pickups? just sayin...

Joey, you plannin on putting a 2000 pound motor in your sled?? Just sayin!:face-icon-small-ton :face-icon-small-hap

Like I mentioned before, apples to oranges.

Oh, btw, how many Toyotas do you see on those lists these days... (and how long have they been building V8's in comparison???)

clarkwinsor · Jun 11, 2010

backcountryislife said:
I don't think it's the power that we're worried about, it's the reliability.

You guys want to think that a brand new 2 stroke engine mfg will be equal to a company like Suzuki?? Seriously, think about that for a second.

Like Aaron said, there isn't a SINGLE american bike or motor that compares. If there was, I would feel a bit more reassured. I buy cat because they're the most reliable sled on the market that doesn't come with a 100 lb weight penalty. If that goes away, I might as well buy a Poo, they handle better anyhow.
Speaking of poo, they've been building basically the same 800 for many years now & still can't figure it out, you think AC has some magic solution that they don't?

Then look at the Doo motor made in Canuckistan, there's another example of not being able to figure it out. Make no mistake, the SUZUKI motor is the reason that most of us buy an AC.

Suzuki, on the other hand, built our FIFO motors & got them right the first time (with all three models), pretty darn impressive if you ask me.

If it works... let's screw it up... it's the snowmobile industry way.

btw, I'd be VERY happy if I'm proven wrong, I'd LOVE to buy an american sled.

plz tell me you didnt refer to canada as canuckistan????? that angers me big time....

killerrf · Jun 11, 2010

JoeySlushr said:
how many jap motors r running around a 2.5 mile track moving a few thousand pound car at 9000 rpm all day long?? how many jap motors r puching trophy trucks around? how about 8000 horse dragsters? 3000 horse pullin tractors? 1000 horse street driven pickups? just sayin...

about 100k hp and 5.6 million ft/lbs torque!?

http://www.bath.ac.uk/~ccsshb/12cyl/

b1dodge · Jun 11, 2010

I love this thread as automotive race engines have been my biz for 25 years. And in responce to toyota building a v8 overhead cam (NOT NASCAR LEGAL ENGINE) as everyone knows it hasnt been very long in there trucks but they work well as all jap stuff does. I think what joey was trying to say was right on the money and he was refering to NASCAR, NHRA TOP FUEL (a top fuel engine is 500 ci based on a gen 2 chrysler hemi and makes 8000+hp...the most volumetric efficient engine ever). But the fact is the toy NASCAR engine is a pushrod V8 engine as mandated by nascar. Toyota has NEVER built a pushrod v8 engine and still dont (pushrod style).Nascar says all engines have to have the same bore spacing, valve angle, combustion chamber volume, intake and exhaust runner angle and volume, bore and stroke (358 c.i.) So knowing that Totota didnt have the tech in hand to build a competitive nascar engine they took the blueprint for the p7r5 dodge motor that is 100% american made(considered the latest tech) and gave it to toyota and thats what they built and run to this day. Subtle differences but still both as well as the ford and chevy engines are almost identical. The point is Arctic Cat designed and built the lay down motor long before the 2003 f7 was introduced and cat left the mass production duties in the very capable hands of suzuki because they were tooled and ready to do it and owned a portion of cat. Arctic cat owns all the rights to the "laydown engine" and because it will be built in a facilty about 25 years newer than anything suzuki has peeps are calling for the doom of cat? I am an american like most of you and the opinion that we cant build a quality engine is ridiculous. If you must know why the Japs got the rep for such great long lasting engines....they simply didnt make enough power to hurt themselves.

JoeySlushr · Jun 11, 2010

b1dodge said:
If you must know why the Japs got the rep for such great long lasting engines....they simply didnt make enough power to hurt themselves.

that is spot on

backcountryislife · Jun 11, 2010

so we want motors that make more power & need to be torn down every day like ALL the motors you just mentioned B1??? Not me man!!

Sorry guys, but America made small motors for a while before they gave up & have switched every small motored vehicle to japanese motors.

clutch man · Jun 11, 2010

I think most of you are missing the point here, this is a great thing for Cat and will put more people to work here in the USA.
Arctic Cat engineers designed and built the lay down motor to there specks then cat left the mass production duties in the very capable hands of Suzuki because they were tooled and ready to do it and owned a portion of cat. Arctic cat owns all the rights to the "lay down engine.
I have rebuilt the lay down motor and i have rebuilt Suzuki 2 stroke ATV motors. The lay down motor is built allot stronger and and better. Yes the ATV is a smaller motor but there is not any similarities in them, The cat motor is designed by cat to cat speck just manufactured by Suzuki. A far better motor than Suzuki put out for them self.

backcountryislife · Jun 11, 2010

Interesting perspective... I assumed that they would have to create a new motor to produce as I ASSUMED that the motor was Suzuki's.

Don't get me wrong, I am VERY happy to see jobs come to the USA!! That's an awesome thing that very few companies are doing lately, And like I said, I'd love to eat my words. The things you mentioned CM give me a bit more assurance that it's doable & if they're just building a motor that they already have, I think that takes a lot of the issues out.

Either way, cool to see a company working to help our job market (wish it was happening this year!!) even if it's a relatively small amount of jobs, it's a gain instead of a loss! Hope I'm wrong.

b1dodge · Jun 11, 2010

yes...in my ramblings as i often do i failed to mention that im sure the only part of the laydown engine to change will be location of assembly and without question the induction system as i know there is no way to make the throttle body injection clean enough to appease the tree huggers. My guess is something similar to the Etech which contrary to what people think is old.(evinrude...about 1976) it can and will be done.

clutch man · Jun 11, 2010

backcountryislife said:
Interesting perspective... I assumed that they would have to create a new motor to produce as I ASSUMED that the motor was Suzuki's.

Don't get me wrong, I am VERY happy to see jobs come to the USA!! That's an awesome thing that very few companies are doing lately, And like I said, I'd love to eat my words. The things you mentioned CM give me a bit more assurance that it's doable & if they're just building a motor that they already have, I think that takes a lot of the issues out.

Either way, cool to see a company working to help our job market (wish it was happening this year!!) even if it's a relatively small amount of jobs, it's a gain instead of a loss! Hope I'm wrong.

cat has the rights to the lay down motor.

FCR112 · Jun 11, 2010

Call me an optimist, or naive...I think that's right Evian spelled backwards right:face-icon-small-con
But I just ain't ready to condemn a kitty cat motor that will be made a few years down the road by the Minnesoootans, not just yet...

Oh and God bless Breet Faarvra and the Viqueens

-FCR OUT!

m8magicandmystery · Jun 12, 2010

maybe if this does happen as planned then the chance of Polaris having a decent engine might become a reality because SUZUKI will have some time to produce engines for the Polaris while Cat tinkers and we suffer the consequences...its all kinda like drilling in the Gulf....don;t worry,we have your interest at heart..lol.

JoeySlushr · Jun 12, 2010

to many pessimists and not enough optimism...

Stack · Jun 12, 2010

Yes it is 4 years down the road, and as the press release states "Some" of the snowmobile engine manufacturing will be coming state side. I know there are concerns, and I certainly have them, but we will have to see how all this plays out. I can almost bet there will be no cost saving to the dealers or consumers on this deal...only to Acat. The ATV and Prowler motors have been pretty solid, but the costs of the units definitly have not come down to the dealers or the consumers by bringing the MFG to MN.

Acat has a lot of issues with their dealer network right now that has many of the Acat consumer faithful a little on edge. Even though this is 4 years out it just adds fuel to the fire. Acat really needs to figure out their ATV and Prowler production; and if a dealer wants to only sell sleds......LET THEM w/o financial penalty or loss of a dealership!

John

dmkhnr · Jun 12, 2010

I think this will be a good thing for cat, however the Suzuki motor has been the best motor in the business and is a brand mark for AC.
AC is taking on the challenge of building a better motor than what they already have, they know it's all about hp and reliability and thats what we're going to get.

Poo is moving to mexico, they are going to be building all their parts there, and this is the first step in what will be a complete move south of the border.
I love the looks of their new chassis, and even thought about taking one in for next year. However the fact that they can't keep an 800 motor together and low hp numbers keeps them off my radar.

Good for cat, I look forward to hearing more about this.

clutch man · Jun 12, 2010

dmkhnr said:
I think this will be a good thing for cat, however the Suzuki motor has been the best motor in the business and is a brand mark for AC.
AC is taking on the challenge of building a better motor than what they already have, they know it's all about hp and reliability and thats what we're going to get.

Poo is moving to mexico, they are going to be building all their parts there, and this is the first step in what will be a complete move south of the border.
I love the looks of their new chassis, and even thought about taking one in for next year. However the fact that they can't keep an 800 motor together and low hp numbers keeps them off my radar.

Good for cat, I look forward to hearing more about this.

Poo is not moving to Mexico, there are moving the snowmobile motor plant to MN, so that all the Snowmobile related stuff will be made there.

Cat to begin manufacturing snowmobile engines

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